Ayre QB-9 Twenty upgrade

[PrTv]

Just got my DAC upgraded to Twenty version. A bit late to the game and the unit only has around 50Hrs on it. Currently using it with my small headphone setup.

 

Comparing with the old DSD version, at this mark I can observe improvement in details and instrument separation, but high is still a bit harsh to my ears. For those who upgraded their units before me (e.g. CG or beetlemania), how long does it take till you feel the unit stabilized, and do you see any improvement in high frequency (less harsh and more define)?

 

Now I'm feeding it mainly with Purist Audio Burn In Disc and plan to do so for the next 200-300Hrs.

 

Can't believe I posted about this dac (DSD) in 2013 when Charley was still around.

And now I'm still using this same DAC (with upgrade). Thanks Ayre for providing this solution to us!

 

[PrTv]

3 hours ago, FelipeRolim said:

I haven't bought my QB-9 "Twenty" yet because the situation in Brazil is not very good. Is there still time to buy? Are there any plans for upgrade sales to be stopped?

From what I know, now QB9 line is discontinued so you cannot by any QB9 unit "brand new", but you can always bring in your current unit (already owned or bought 2nd hand) for the upgrade. As confirmed by Ryan in this thread, this upgrade plan will be available for the time being, and in foreseeable future.

 

Now my unit has around 240 Hrs on it, and to be frank, I still like my previous, well broken in "DSD" version better. Will still keep feeding music to it and hope that it will transform in 300-400 or 500 hour mark... into something I like more.

[PrTv]

20 hours ago, beetlemania said:

Cold out of the box, I heard a vague sense of something not right even though I could also immediately discern the improvements in resolution and clarity. But, otherwise I never heard anything like what you are reporting. IIRC, that character cleared substantially within a couple of days. I thought the sound was mostly stable around the 250 hour mark but later seemed to hear subtle improvements well past the 500 hour mark. I suppose I would characterize that as a more coherent, relaxed, and open sound. So, maybe that is what you're hoping for?

 

First day or two aside, I never felt that the DSD version was better in any way. As I approach retirement years, I’m confident the Twenty version is my final DAC.

 

Thanks for your reply. I also have no idea why I found this "Twenty" version inferior to the DSD version. This is not in line with everything I learned about this upgrade. Is it possible (although very unlikely) that the distributor did a botchy work resulting in subpar performance?

 

In any case, will give it more time before I draw my final conclusion.

[PrTv]

24 minutes ago, spin33 said:

I am surprised to hear that a ‘distributor’ did the conversion for you. I’m under the impression that the upgrade was only performed at the Ayre company itself in Colorado. If you did send it directly to Ayre, I’d be more than surprised to hear that they’d done sub-par work. Thats not their M.O.

 

How is your digital filter setting? If it’s in the ‘Measure’ mode, you may want to switch to ‘Listen’ mode to see if that gets you get closer to the sound signature you seek. (Or, if you’re already set to ‘Listen’ then try ‘Measure’ just for the heck of it).

 

Given that Ayre's HQ is located halfway across the globe from Thailand, the turn around time may be months and shipping cost/import duty may be substantial. I think Ayre authorized the distributor to perform this upgrade as it's relatively simple upgrade (replacement of almost everything).

 

The dip switch was the first area i observed and yes "listen" it is... have yet to try "measure" though.

[PrTv]

7 hours ago, Tone Deaf said:

 

I pretty much agree with everything @beatlemania wrote.  

 

For me, initially right out of the box it didn't sound that great.  But after 48 hours it was clearly better than the DSD version in every way.  Any changes since then have only solidified that view.

 

I too would be surprised if the upgrade could be botched, as it is a complete board replacement.  Not much to go wrong there.

 

The most striking change to me was the transparency, with the much darker backgrounds.  Stepping out on a limb here, but I wonder if there is something about your digital source that the DSD version obscured and the greater transparency of the Twenty version allows you to notice.  Doubtful.  What source are you using to feed the QB-9?

I have a modest setup consisting a MBP > Audirvana > Ayre > V281 > Utopia/LCDX

 

In relation to source no change has been made to my MBP or any programs... even Audirvana version remains the same.

 

Based on you guys’ comments, I should re-evaluate to see where the issue lies. 

[PrTv]

6 hours ago, Tone Deaf said:

@beetlemania, agree with you regarding isolation.  Ayre designed the QB-9 with galvanic isolation on the USB input, starting with the first generation QB-9, which may have been the first time this was done with any DAC.  Ayre redesigned it again on the DSD version, and again on the Twenty version.  But even with galvanic isolation, I have never found any version of the QB-9 to be immune to changes to the source.

 

I performed most of my structured testing / listening with the DSD version.  To my ears, even the original Regen made subtle improvements to the sound of the QB-9.  The ISO Regen improved things further, and improving the power feeding the ISO Regen improved things further yet.  Modifying the Mac mini to use dc power resulted in comparable improvements.

 

I haven't performed any structured testing with the Twenty version - I just put the Twenty version back into my system without changing anything.  But  few months after getting the Twenty back into my system, I had an ISO Regen / LPS-1.2 die due to a faulty power brick (all replaced under warranty by Uptone).  Lets just say, going back to a standard Regen / LPS-1 was a bit of a let down, and I was quite happy to get the ISO Regen / LPS-1.2 back into the system.  

 

So in my experience, the Twenty version is sensitive to upstream source changes.  I believe@barrows suggestion is a valid one if someone wants to get a bit more performance out of the QB-9, and they are not using a specialized renderer, and possibly even if they are.  Adding one also just might take the "edge" off something about the sound such as @PrTv is experiencing - my guess is he is hearing some type of noise making it thru to the DAC, and an ISO Regen might clean much of that up.  I've also used MBP's with the QB-9 - they were not immune to USB improvements either.

 

 

Thanks for this informative post. Also thanks beetlemania for raising this.

 

I’ve always want to try this stuff. It seems ifi Micro/Nano iUSB3 is hard to find here, but I can find a good deal for ifi Purifier3 (cheapest model). Will try it and if the result is good, I may go big and buy isoRegen + Power Supply!

[PrTv]

8 minutes ago, Yoram Diamand said:

The purifier is no good, you cannot compare it to the iUSB3.0 but I saw it is not for sale new at the moment, so perhaps second hand at hifishark?

Yes I know but I cant find Micro/Nano iUSB3 anywhere in Thailand.

 

If I can see improvement with Purifier, I plan to go with this, which seems to be a real deal (have to wait till end of Jan though for the power supply to be available).

[PrTv]

On 12/17/2020 at 9:54 AM, Tone Deaf said:

@beetlemania, agree with you regarding isolation.  Ayre designed the QB-9 with galvanic isolation on the USB input, starting with the first generation QB-9, which may have been the first time this was done with any DAC.  Ayre redesigned it again on the DSD version, and again on the Twenty version.  But even with galvanic isolation, I have never found any version of the QB-9 to be immune to changes to the source.

 

I performed most of my structured testing / listening with the DSD version.  To my ears, even the original Regen made subtle improvements to the sound of the QB-9.  The ISO Regen improved things further, and improving the power feeding the ISO Regen improved things further yet.  Modifying the Mac mini to use dc power resulted in comparable improvements.

 

I haven't performed any structured testing with the Twenty version - I just put the Twenty version back into my system without changing anything.  But  few months after getting the Twenty back into my system, I had an ISO Regen / LPS-1.2 die due to a faulty power brick (all replaced under warranty by Uptone).  Lets just say, going back to a standard Regen / LPS-1 was a bit of a let down, and I was quite happy to get the ISO Regen / LPS-1.2 back into the system.  

 

So in my experience, the Twenty version is sensitive to upstream source changes.  I believe@barrows suggestion is a valid one if someone wants to get a bit more performance out of the QB-9, and they are not using a specialized renderer, and possibly even if they are.  Adding one also just might take the "edge" off something about the sound such as @PrTv is experiencing - my guess is he is hearing some type of noise making it thru to the DAC, and an ISO Regen might clean much of that up.  I've also used MBP's with the QB-9 - they were not immune to USB improvements either.

 

 

After I tried the Purifier, I cant say that I notice any difference. Frankly, I can easily notice changes (for better or worse) swapping AC cable or fuse but not this USB filter.

[PrTv]

At 640-ish hours mark here (I left it on all the time since I got it... except for short power off to change fuse)... Now I think it's better with details / textures and speed as expected... but to be frank, I can't tell to which extent it is better comparing with the DSD version, as I have replaced LCD-X with Utopia and Empyrean. Anyway... with the Utopia, the harshness seems to reduce now comparing with the first day I got it back from upgrade (but not completely flawless given the nature of the headphones that has 6Khz peak).

 

Well... back to the topic, I plan to run it for 4-5 more days and will stop this marathon break-in.

[PrTv]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

Make sure you are sending DSD as DoP, otherwise it will not work with a direct USB connection from a Mac.

Like he said... this setting should allow Dac to recognize and playback DSD without problem... but maximum bitrate is DSD 128 due to limitation of DoP requiring doubling PCM bit rate to deliver DSD. If you play anything higher than DSD128, DAC will go into PCM352 mode then I dont know how it affects SQ as I have no way to test it against native DSD.

 

[PrTv]

I've just replaced my MBP mid-2012 that I used as a transport for a long time, by a dedicated transport, and for the first time, I can feed DSD 256 (natively) to QB9 Twenty. Improvement over the MBP is not minor at all. This should last me while... until the next big upgrade (not in foreseeable future given this economy).

 

 

[PrTv]

57 minutes ago, ufoerp said:

Hello, just want to check if upgraded QB9 Twenty works well with Aurender player? Does it have the QB9 USB port need power challenge? thanks. 

Don't worry, based on my post you have quoted, I upgraded to QB9 Twenty and it worked with my N100H without any problem. Everything is perfect. Sleep function also worked fine (DAC went to sleep once no track played, and woke up once I played the track). N100H is basically similar to N100C so I don't think you'll run into any problem.

 

This may be your best upgrade/purchase ever! Then please don't hesitate!

[PrTv]

1 hour ago, Yoram Diamand said:

Hi I have the RCA to my Feliks Audio Euforia headphone amp, but the XLR is still free. I was thinking of this converter: Jensen Transformers PC-2XR XLR/RCA Audio Converter Balanced to Unbalanced. Are there technical reasons why that would not work? Ideal would be to have 2 RCA outputs, one for my head amp and one for my  preamp ->loudspeakers. Also: Can I use 2 outputs RCA and XLR at the same time? Thanks Yoram

I used RCA+XLR simultaneously at one point, and this config worked fine. I didn't detect any sonic degradation.

 

But since you've brought this up, I also want to check with Ryan.

 

Ryan, by design/technically, would there be any sonic degradation if two outputs are used at the same time? i.e. do the XLR/RCA output share the same signal path, if so, connecting the DAC via 2 outputs at the same time should theoretically degrade the signal coming out of both outputs, as oppose to only one (RCA or XLR) connection?

[PrTv]

14 hours ago, ufoerp said:

Super thanks!!

 

I have seen your feedback about twenty version versus DSD version. So there is no large difference for this upgrade if I am owner of DSD version? 
 

cheers.

Well, I wouldn't say that the change is minor. I can say with confidence that the new board sounds better, but can't quite quantify the extent, as it took quite a long time to burn in, and by the time the "Twenty" is fully broken in (past 350-ish hours mark), I forgot how the DSD version sounded.

 

However, this review should give you a very good indication of the improvement, as side-by-side comparison was thoroughly made here: