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DolbyA decoding feedback -- 'feral' examples (yes/no)


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2 hours ago, John Dyson said:

Got another example -- Nat King Cole...

Audio Productions Remaster -- 2011

Issues same as before -- esp listen for hiss here.

 

Listen for the compression on the choral vocal on 'Orange Colored Sky' -- compressed, but when decoded -- more 'natural' and louder.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vm7iuupm3n4vee4/AABGvkN7DZLxGkq2QAdY_rB1a?dl=0

 

Hi John

 A word of warning. You should ask Chris to edit the link out and only provide it on PM request.

 Too many views of this from just merely curious visitors will result in Dropbox shutting it down, perhaps even your account due to bandwidth used being excessive .

 Kind Regards

Alex

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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1 hour ago, fas42 said:

unlike many, I enjoy the sparkle and lift of well reproduced treble; and therefore don't feel a need to make it go away ... :)

 

 But , you are using just a laptop to listen to these, are you not ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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  • 4 weeks later...
45 minutes ago, lucretius said:

Olivia Newton John

#4  - I don't think I heard a difference.

HI Lucretius 

 Just for one example .

 I find that the decoded version of "ONJ-Take Me Home Country Roads" has the chorus sounding much cleaner (less harsh sounding) and clearly defined. When her voice kicks in it is a little softer and purer sounding , with noticeably improved separation between elements for the rest of the track. This version sees me wanting to hear the whole track.

(Admittedly though, I have had quite a bit of practice listening to John's various examples)

 Regards

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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24 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

I heard those differences initially but I thought that the two tracks were not level matched - the processed track appeared more quiet. When I turned up the volume on the processed track vis-a-vis the unprocessed track, the two sounded very similar to me.

 

 Yes, the original is a little louder, however I can still hear the clear improvement with the decoded version when increasing the listening level.

Alex1012415980_ONJUndecodedvs.Decoded.thumb.jpg.b7e7c9299c4f4ff2341710d04bf06782.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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19 minutes ago, fas42 said:

You see, the undecoded version is the one with the sparkle, with the life energy in it;

 

Frank

It would appear that your preferences are for a lot of added distortion, and unwanted Dolby A artifacts due to not being properly mastered for the CD release. Your system also appears to be quite lacking in the area of HF detail, or you wouldn't feel the need for all this HF crud and distortion that wasn't part of the original recording session.

Were you listening from a Laptop by any chance, instead of your main Audio system ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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39 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

There appear to be a couple of notch filters, in addition to a slightly lower level above 8.7kHz and a couple of unexpected 2dB dips at 8.9k and 9.8k:

image.thumb.png.fcd431bf8e9a2e236451dfa725945d3f.png

 

Here's the same plot with the undecoded file on top:

image.thumb.png.41f2ef7491cacb920d80401efce99160.png

 

You would need to discuss this with John.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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4 hours ago, John Dyson said:

Listen to 'please mr please' or 'Let me be there' -- very closely.

John

At  a quick listen K1 is noticeably better with the both tracks that you suggested.

More open sounding right from the start , albeit a little softer sounding , with her voice cleaner sounding too. (first converted from .flac to .wav)
 
Regards
Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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6 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Just listened to the undecoded , K0, and K1 flac versions of Have You Ever Been - the RAW is the closest to hearing what was in the recording space, K0 and K1 progressively move towards hearing it via an AM radio - IOW, the sparkle and life of the accompanying instruments, etc, is being deadened just a bit more each time.

 

 The RAW file is helping to compensate for glaring deficiencies in your laptop setup !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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31 minutes ago, fas42 said:

I would need to hear the qualities of whatever system was being used to subjectively assess the 'feralness' of some recording ... sorry about that, John, :).

 Frank

 If you had been reading what John has been saying, you would realise that he is actually able to readily MEASURE the differences due to the lack of Dolby A decoding. The tricky part is where they attempted to remaster a Dolby A recording without using the original master tapes with their calibration level tones, more often than not botching it up.

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

Alex, one thing I haven't seen is any "ready measurement" - if the recording deliberately used processing, including Dolby A itself as an intended effect, where does one separate the "valid" processing from the "invalid" processing?

 

 A good question. However, there would be very few Recording Engineers that would do that, as most material would sound terrible ,except perhaps some original Abba recordings from Polar.:)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Hi John

 Taylor Swift may be easy on the eyes, but I don't find her too easy on the ears though.

 Perhaps an acquired taste ?

 Regards

Alex

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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47 minutes ago, fas42 said:

'Fraid I like "crummy", "foggy" sound, John :P - the qualities that make ABBA special are significantly reduced in the nofog versions, and especially the lilt in the voices has been lost to an unacceptable degree - I won't be a customer, sorry.

 

 Perhaps they are when using a Laptop with tiny speakers, but this is an Audiophile forum where most members use something way better for their main listening sessions, and most prefer to hear them as the original Recording Engineer intended them to sound, NOT due to a stuff up later on  by a mastering Engineer.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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1 hour ago, fas42 said:

So when other things fail, we fall back to the notorious, absolutely necessary, ruler flat FR

 

You at least need to get the main VF range of 300 HZ to 3kHZ as flat as possible . This is the fundamental frequency  range for Telecommunications. Many Laptop speakers can't even do that well !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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From Wiki :

Quote

Dolby A

Dolby A was the company's first noise reduction system, presented in 1965.[1] It was intended for use in professional recording studios, where it became commonplace, gaining widespread acceptance at the same time that multitrack recording became standard. The input signal is split into frequency bands by four filters with 12 dB per octave slopes, with cutoff frequencies (3 dB down points) as follows: high–pass at 80 Hz; band–pass from 80 Hz to 3 kHz; a low–pass from 3 kHz; and another low–pass at 9 kHz. (The stacking of contributions from the two low-pass bands allows greater noise reduction in the upper frequencies.) The compander circuit has a threshold of -40 dB, with a ratio of 2:1 for a compression/expansion of 10 dB. This provides about 10 dB of noise reduction increasing to a possible 15 dB at 15 kHz, according to articles written by Ray Dolby in JAES (October 1967) and Audio (June/July 1968).

As with the "B" system, correct matching of the compression and expansion processes is important. The calibration of the expansion (decoding) unit for magnetic tape uses a flux level of 185 nWb/m, which is the level used on industry calibration tapes such as those from Ampex; this is set to 0 VU on the tape recorder playback and to Dolby Level on the noise reduction unit. In the record (compression or encoding) mode a characteristic tone (Dolby Tone) generated inside the noise reduction unit is set to 0 VU on the tape recorder and to 185 nWb/m on the tape.

Dolby A also saw some use as the method of noise reduction in optical sound for motion pictures.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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16 hours ago, John Dyson said:

Listening to DolbyA encoded material (you ARE doing so) without decoding is a lot like listening to MQA without fully unfolding.

 

 Or like playing a vinyl record with a high output moving coil cartridge into a low noise op amp with a gain of around 100

without an RIAA compensation network !  :)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

So, you can't hear all the acoustic space surrounding the instruments being played, in the original, I take it? :)

 Frank 

We got that you don't like what John has been doing/ saying several pages ago.

 Please let it go now until you have something better than a Laptop's speakers to properly evaluate them.

 Perhaps save them to USB memory and take them to your Audiophile friend's house ?

 

Alex

 

 

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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38 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

My apologies if I have misinterpreted some of what you have been saying, or implied, John.

 

 

Unfortunately, there is a little problem here ... the Pink Panther movie, along with the Mancini theme music, came out in 1963; but Dolby A was only announced in 1965, as a product - are we  witnessing a "Back to the Future" moment here, where the distributed version of the recording was contaminated with the Dolby A virus in some mysterious way, :).

  There were a plenty of opportunities for that to happen, because Audio CDs were not released until 17 years later in 1982 .

 It may have even been possible for the soundtrack to have come from the audio of the 35mm (?) film's  soundtrack and been recorded to magnetic  tape for the CD's release ???

 BTW, Enoch Light pioneered Stereo and Quadrophonic audio recording on 35mm film.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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John

 Back to business .

 

Re the missing important part of the Vocal Forward component.

 That hasn't done just quite what you expected with 01. ABBA - Ring Ring-remastered-forward and 08. ABBA - Me And Bobby And Bobby's Brother-remastered-forward.

 

Yes , it is an improvement in that area, BUT it has opened up the whole damn lot and it's MUCH more engaging to listen to compared with the previous version!  :D 

 I can't believe the improvement !  WOW !

 

 Kind Regards

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Hi John

 Now I want the rest of this album , preferably in  the direct 24/96 flac from the decoder  . PLEASE ?

I would love to play this version and see my Grandchildren's reaction.¬¬

Don't forget too, that I am comparing these with just the previous decoded version not the originals before any decoding. 

Kind Regards

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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The simple fact remains that although the differences between the original files and the latest versions will be obvious to most people, the numerous small increments made by John along the way could not have possibly been discerned reliably using the output from a Laptop's tiny speakers  and it's mediocre audio system by Frank .

 

There have been numerous different versions along the way from John, that most of you have not had access to.

I have had some earlier Abba samples from John that go back as far as 16/03 /2019.

John has worked to a very tight schedule for many months with this project, using mainly Abba, because it was the most challenging of all the incorrectly decoded Dolby A recordings.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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