Who has tried out different USB Cables?

[Teresa]

11 hours ago, daverich4 said:

 

d. Buy the cable and feel ripped off because I trust my ears and don't hear any difference.

 

e. Return the cable for a full refund under the store's 100% satisfaction guarantee, which usually is 30 days.

 

10 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Well with respect, that would be slightly stupid, wouldn’t it? Why would you buy a cable that makes no difference?...

 

Yes, either stupid or too lazy to return it to the seller for refund.

 

10 hours ago, daverich4 said:

 

How am I going to know if it makes a difference if I don't buy it?

 

Buy the cable that you think will help your system and if it doesn't offer any difference return it and get your money back.

[daverich4]

8 hours ago, Teresa said:

 

e. Return the cable for a full refund under the store's 100% satisfaction guarantee, which usually is 30 days.

 

 

Yes, either stupid or too lazy to return it to the seller for refund.

 

 

Buy the cable that you think will help your system and if it doesn't offer any difference return it and get your money back.

Perhaps you could list several of the stores that fully refund your purchase price after you have opened and used the product that they sold you? And what do they do when they get it back? Repackage it and sell it as new?

[mansr]

9 hours ago, Teresa said:

e. Return the cable for a full refund under the store's 100% satisfaction guarantee, which usually is 30 days.

What if that's not enough time to properly burn it in?

[EdmontonCanuck]

38 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Generally all you need for USB cables is to maintain a data stream through them for a few days for them to sound right.

 

Seriously?!?!?!

[pkane2001]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

the longest I’ve every needed to burn in a cable was a JPS Kaptovator which took upward of 300 hours to sound like it should. Generally all you need for USB cables is to maintain a data stream through them for a few days for them to sound right.

But then if you don’t believe that USB cables make a difference a few hours operation isn’t suddenly going to transform your system such that you suddenly hear a difference. That’s a much more involved and complex process. 😁 

 

The process of burn-in is indeed complex and involved, but happens completely outside the cable and the electronics.

[mansr]

16 minutes ago, marce said:

I would love to know what the process of cable burn in achieves?

It prevents you returning the cable to the store.

[daverich4]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

When you get the cable open it very carefully, paying attention to the fact you’re going to need to repackage it if not satisfied. For example, if its has a cellophane outer packing, don’t just rip it off; instead use a Stanley knife to make neat cuts that you can easily seal with sellotape. Similarly if there are sealed plastic bags, open them carefully with scissors so they can be easily resealed. Handle goods with while gloves so you don’t leave fingerprints on any bright work and avoid making tight bends that may crease, damage or mark the outer sleeves or insulation. Make sure you don’t install the cables where its dusty and if the cable comes in a plastic sleeve, remove that carefully and retain. If you do happen to damage the cellophane wrapper, reseal with kitchen cling film. You dealer will see you’ve done your very best to retain the original packaging quality.  Generally if you’re careful, many dealers do not have a problem with letting you try something for up to 30 days.  I simply avoid the ones who do have a problem. 

Can you tell me where you shop so I can make sure I don’t buy anything there? I have no interest in doing business with a dealer who thinks it’s OK to try and pass off used gear as new. Thanks. 

[pkane2001]

24 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

Can someone explain why nonbelievers are so much interested in participating in discussions that seem to be so much clear to them from the very beginning?)

 

Just like the believers, unbelievers have  personal experience and are willing to share it. Is it a problem that theirs doesn’t agree with yours?

 

[kumakuma]

1 hour ago, daverich4 said:

Can you tell me where you shop so I can make sure I don’t buy anything there? I have no interest in doing business with a dealer who thinks it’s OK to try and pass off used gear as new. Thanks. 

 

I agree.

 

I want to make sure that my cables have been burned in with the kinds of music that I listen to.

[EdmontonCanuck]

11 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

I want to make sure that my cables have been burned in with the kinds of music that I listen to.

 

Agreed. I made the mistake of listening to this once and then had to replace my DAC.

[Teresa]

19 hours ago, daverich4 said:

Perhaps you could list several of the stores that fully refund your purchase price after you have opened and used the product that they sold you? And what do they do when they get it back? Repackage it and sell it as new?

 

I think everywhere that sells cables and audio equipment. Brick and Mortar stores such as Best Buy, and mail order sites such as musicdirect.com .

 

As I understand it the store returns it to the manufacture for credit.

 

19 hours ago, mansr said:

What if that's not enough time to properly burn it in?

 

If it's still not burned in by day 29 I would take it back and get my money back. It has to be an audible improvement or I return it, that goes for audio equipment too.

 

12 hours ago, mansr said:

It prevents you returning the cable to the store.

 

No it doesn't! They can't refuse your return as long as it is in the 30 day satisfaction guarantee window.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

So I think we can summarise this thread as follows:

 

1. There are Forum members who have experienced the differences USB cables can deliver in a system and 
2. Forum members who have never had that experience 

Within the second group there are members who’ve tried cables and failed to hear a difference and those who’ve possibly never tried designer cables because their knowledge and learning suggests that cables should not make a difference, so they’ve never bothered trying any in their system.

You missed a group: those who have measured their equipment using regular cables and found it to be performing adequately, thus seeing no need to try any other cables.

[pkane2001]

1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

So I think we can summarise this thread as follows:

 

1. There are Forum members who have experienced the differences USB cables can deliver in a system and 
2. Forum members who have never had that experience 

Within the second group there are members who’ve tried cables and failed to hear a difference and those who’ve possibly never tried designer cables because their knowledge and learning suggests that cables should not make a difference, so they’ve never bothered trying any in their system.  

 

So, now the question is, why do some members hear a difference and others don’t? Personally I’ve no reason to doubt the experience of both camps, but why the difference?  The differences that cables make are typically quite subtle and delicate; effects like sound stage, imaging, emotional content etc.; the first things to disappear when noise increases or resolution drops.  Better cables contribute to the removal of the masking effects of lack of resolution, noise etc. So in order to hear those effects in the first place a system has to already achieve a certain performance level, otherwise the differences are simply swallowed up.  To some degree good cables will help to minimise noise pick up, noise radiation and will help lower any masking effects, so logically it would be difficult to hear the effects of an upgraded USB cables when for example the balance of the system’s cables are masking subtle details.  

So for me, the answer is clear. There exists a large group of audiophiles Worldwide who clearly hear the contributions cables make in lowering noise floors and increasing detail recovery and they support a large and thriving cable industry. The more refined and capable the cables they add, the lower the masking effects, the greater the SQ improvements become. Similarly there are large numbers of audiophiles whose systems have never revealed the effects of cables and this group has no reason to believe that cables make a difference, because in their systems, they don’t. Why would this group add cables when they can’t hear any effect, so they don’t and the masking effects persist. 

Where this all gets ugly is when the insecurities step in and people start talking about snake oil, mental illusions, contravening the laws of physics or simply just ridiculing alternate experiences because they simply can’t accept that some others hear what they can’t. But as long as audiophiles are divided between those who’ve heard what cables can do and those who haven’t, these arguments will persist. Ad-nauseam. They’ve been around on audio forums since the beginning and they’ll no doubt still be around until  systems generally become more resolving and more revealing. The gotcha here being that such a trend involves amongst other things, cables. 

 

 

Let me ask you: have you ever tried to compare two usb cables, where you didn’t know which one is in the circuit? Have you successfully picked out the one with the night and day difference with any reasonable certainty? Why don’t you try it and come back to us with the results, say out of 10 or 15 tests. Don’t do it for me, do it for yourself. I’ve done this many, many times. It doesn’t require you to be an engineer, just a little curious.

 

People hear differences even when the same file is played over the same system, as long as they think that some component is changed. This is a fact of life and nothing that audiophiles can consciously control.

[Teresa]

31 minutes ago, mansr said:

You missed a group: those who have measured their equipment using regular cables and found it to be performing adequately, thus seeing no need to try any other cables.

 

And still yet another group: those who are subjectively satisfied with their current cables and don't desire to experiment with other cables.

 

Many of my cables are 20 to 30 years old, I see no need to replace any of them as they don't appear to ever wear out. As a rule I don't replace anything until it breaks and is too expensive to repair.

 

Some people claim I'm not an audiophile as I don't lust after what I don't have and what I can't afford. Oh well.

 

I'm not even sure why I'm in this thread, I look at All Activity in the Expanded version. I must have read something in the preview that sparked my interest, I don't remember what.

[audiobomber]

On 8/8/2019 at 2:56 PM, Ralf11 said:

Please give the number of USB cables you tried out in your system, and list your DAC.

Feel free to say whether you used a cable rental place, swapped with friends, or just bought several.

Also if you have any galvanic isolation devices in your system (or know that your DAC includes this) please state which one, or none.

I tried several freebie USB 2.0 cables between my sMs-200 (with Welborne Labs linear PSU) and Korg DS-DAC-10R. Each sounded different. A $50 Vanguard dual head cable was my first purchase and I preferred it to the freebies.

 

I upgraded the DAC to an Audiolab 8200CD and purchased two Oyaide cables, a $70 neo d+ Class A that was favourably reviewed in TAS, and the twice as expensive neo d+ Class S. I found the more expensive Oyaide too bright sounding and returned it. The Oyaide Class A is my best sounding cable.

 

Recently I purchased a Benchmark DAC3. I tried their freebie cable because they say cables don't matter. I disagree strongly. The Benchmark cable was too bright. Back to the Oyaide Class A. 

 

I know the Audiolab DAC is USB input is not galvanically isolated. I don't know about the others. 

 

I don't use any sort of USB treatment in my main audio system. I tried an iPurifier2 but it messes up the sound when used behind the sms-200. I do like, and always use, the iPurifier in my headphone system, where the source is a Dell laptop. DAC is currently a Korg DS-DAC-100M. I was using the freebie Korg USB A to USB B Mini cable, but replaced the cable with a USB A to USB Mini adapter and heard a significant improvement. 

 

A-B testing can be a  useful tool, but to really hear a cable's effect, you need to leave it in the system for a while and forget about testing, just listen to your music.

 

@Ralf11, please post your experience with USB cables, as you are asking others to do.

[xyzzy1]

On 11/2/2019 at 2:26 PM, daverich4 said:

No, I didn’t ignore that passage. My only choice to try a cable is to buy it. 

no it’s not. Please use this thing called the internet to look up dealers. Thecableco.com does loaners and Audioadvisor.com offers 30 day return just to name a couple. 

[marce]

Do I detect a sniff of "system not being revealing enough".

I do think that mentioning "expectation bias" may be interesting...

 

[Albrecht]

On 11/2/2019 at 6:04 AM, STC said:

There are some exception to this. Often high end to DIY speakers. 😂

 

Long ago, while waiting for the replacement caps for the Classe Amp, I was using Yamaha Pure Sound Amp for about two or three months. 
 

During the said period, a group of senior audiophiles dropped by and after the listening session we discussing about amps while having  late supper. They brought up the importance of Amp power and design. They all thought the Classe at 500W per channel was the reason for the good bass from the Harbeth. That’s when I reminded them that I wasn’t using the Classe at the time. 
 

I have seen so many “gurus” making claims about certain house sound of the equipments and there were occasions where they just do not know which equipment was actually playing. 
No one can claim to recognize a house sound of any equipment just by listening.

Sure they can and do.... Once you've heard something many many times, in many different contexts, - that's the only way to know the house sound. How else would you "know?" Or, - are you saying that manufacturers of speakers and amps don't have a house sound?

 

Classe is a great example of amps that are not neutral when compared to other SS and some tube amps. Sure, - THE SYSTEM , - is going to sound different when you pair a classe with a pair of NHT stand mounts than with a pair of floor standing Wilsons. But, - if you plug in a Krell amp and compare to the Classe, - you'll get two totally different characteristics...

 

 

[daverich4]

4 hours ago, xyzzy1 said:

no it’s not. Please use this thing called the internet to look up dealers. Thecableco.com does loaners and Audioadvisor.com offers 30 day return just to name a couple. 

Two more companies that sell used merchandise for new prices. Good to know. 

[Ralf11]

21 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

There is never a "right" or "wrong." if someone wants to build equipment that cuts the treble, - (For example NAD products), - that's their prerogative. (Some people may not want or can stand any sibilance, whether it's on the recording or not). Nothing wrong with building gear for those people, - even though it is not an accurate representation of what's on the recording...

 

I agree with you but please stay on topic or start your own thead.

[Confused]

19 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

Two more companies that sell used merchandise for new prices. Good to know. 

My dealer sells a range of cables.  They also use the same cables during demos in their store.  If you happen to be interested in buying a cable, you can borrow one of the shop demo cables to try at home.  If you like it, you then buy a brand new one, with no likely reason to need to return it.  Is this uncommon?  It seems a straightforward approach to me.   

[Teresa]

11 hours ago, Teresa said:

...I'm not even sure why I'm in this thread, I look at All Activity in the Expanded version. I must have read something in the preview that sparked my interest, I don't remember what.

 

Thanks @audiobomber I now remember why I first clicked on this thread as @Ralf11 asked about our experience with USB cables. Evidently I got sidetracked.

 

I have tried two, I purchased a $7 ten foot Dynex USB cable at Best Buy for my Teac USB DAC which I purchased to be able to play DSD music files as DSD instead of converting them to PCM. Before that I was using Mac Mini’s internal DAC with Audio Midi setup at 24/96.

 

When I purchased the Dynex USB I believed all USB cables sounded the same, and that was as good as I could expect from my computer music files (wav, dff and dsf.) in my system. 

 

A poster asked me if I had tried the Lush cable and I replied that it was not available in the 10 foot length I needed. 

 

Peter kindly gifted me a Lush 3 meter USB cable (slightly less than 10 feet) and just barely make it from my desk to my equipment stand. Peter doesn’t sell or recommend such a long USB cable as it is out of spec. I found the Lush to offer sound quality more to my liking. I searched and found the original post in USB audio cracked... finally! Page 93.

 

I was flabbergasted the sound of the Lush was more to my liking. 

[marce]

1 hour ago, Albrecht said:

And of course the group that uses such junk-ass meters & measuring tools that don't reflect any difference in any cable...

You are a bit out of touch with how electronics are designed...

There are many sets of measurements for analogue cables showing the differences they do impart to the signal... The same regarding digital signals, there is a big difference with transporting the information as an analogue signal or transmitting it encoded as a digital package and thus as digital signals... The use of cables in electronics is not something new and is well studied and has been for many years... A cable is basically a bit of wire with some parasitic passive elements, resistance, conductance, capacitance and inductance. The insulation (dielectric) has little to no effect for low frequency signals and only really effects velocity of propagation for high speed signals and when they get really high or are RF then some effects from VA can be an issue.

[Speedskater]

I just saw this in an e-mail group. From Bill Whitlock (Jensen Transformer and past AES co-chair of the EMI/RFI committee):

10BaseT is a brilliant standard!  I've told folks for years that Ethernet is the only digital interface (aside from optical) to even consider when the electrical environment is hostile.

The newer interfaces, including USB, are rather pathetic in their very limited common-mode voltage tolerance. The only thing that saves them is the use of shielded cables. If the shield is grounded at both ends, the transformer action nullifies common-mode on the inner conductors ... but this only happens above a transition frequency determined by the shield's L/R ratio (around 10 kHz for typical cable construction.  But this helpful mechanism just isn't there in UTP (Unshielded Twisted Pair), which is why I recommend against UTP in most data applications. This is something the European community seems to "get" but most cable manufacturers in the US seem ignorant of. Cable shielding has benefits that extend beyond electric and HF electromagnetic fields!

Bill Whitlock

[squirehill]

What about Revelationaudiolabs Y USB:  two legs, one for audio, the other for DC

power (disconnected once handshake established), leaving only the single audio leg into self powered DAC/Bridge w/no contamination from a parallel power carrying leg.