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Who has tried out different USB Cables?


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1 hour ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi GM,  seems you have a lot of variables there. There’s Toslink vs USB cable, the MacBook Pro’s clocks, interfaces and power supplies and the receiving end’s clocks, interfaces and power supplies, all of which have the possibility of influencing the signal. As far as I can see, the only conclusion you could reliably reach from your example would be in relatIon to your exact implementation of USB and Toslink...which is why people are advised to try stuff in their system.  As far as I can see, you are just as likely to see the opposite result in terms of SQ in a system where USB has been optimised throughout.   I am 100% certain that USB cables affect the sound although I don’t know why. I do accept that the USB cables are unlikely to modify the bitstream per-se but I do think that clocks, PSs and interfaces on either side of the cable could have a major influence as can EMI picked up by a cable

As I have said, it shouldn't happen... Its bad design in my book if anything is susceptible to the noise to such an extent, it should be 130-140dB down.

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27 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Your system on the other hand is seemingly saturated in EMI and noise sources, which I can guarantee will destroy its ability to reveal subtle or even fairly major differences between components, cables etc which clearly explains why you can’t pick up differences between various USB cables. From your description, I would guess that your system is literally swamped in noise, which in my experience is a killer of exceptional sound quality and subtle detail

 

Well, no, what I described was my office system. That's where I measure things and where I listen mostly using headphones. My main system is in the basement, on its own AC run from the circuit breaker, with power regeneration, battery-powered devices where possible, Wi-Fi isolated from the rest of the network in the house and a couple of floors away from the 'noisy' office. Still can't hear any difference between USB cables. 

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53 minutes ago, barrows said:

This is the weird thing for me.  For example, I see measured differences in jitter spectrum, where the differences are often at -120 and lower.  And I agree that these differences Should not be audible, at least in what we see in the jitter measurements.  I have participated in listening tests of different levels of jitter, say when just replacing the master XO with one of lower phase noise, where the measured jitter level differences are at such levels that one would conclude they Should be inaudible, but the differences are clearly audible.  I have a very hard time believing that the difference which is heard is anything occurring below -120dB, as that does not make sense.  Nevertheless, the difference is clearly audible, and does not require a microscopic focus to perceive.  And the tests were confirmed with no knowledge of which XO was which, and were repeatable (essentially "blind" although I hate that term).  I do not know how to explain where one needs to look to find the what is really affecting the sonic differences, I do not believe in magical qualities of audio playback.  In my system, on a quiet night at home, I can perceive test tones at -100 and maybe -110, but not lower than that.  So how can something at -120 or lower be affecting what I do hear?

Is it possible for an artifact of jitter at -120 to be producing an IM product at an audible level?  There is something there, but I admit to being not able to technically know what it is.


maybe it’s because of music, the rhythm of music that makes the difference. More sensitive to our ears/brain.

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8 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi GM,  seems you have a lot of variables there. There’s Toslink vs USB cable, the MacBook Pro’s clocks, interfaces and power supplies and the receiving end’s clocks, interfaces and power supplies, all of which have the possibility of influencing the signal. As far as I can see, the only conclusion you could reliably reach from your example would be in relatIon to your exact implementation of USB and Toslink...which is why people are advised to try stuff in their system.  As far as I can see, you are just as likely to see the opposite result in terms of SQ in a system where USB has been optimised throughout.   I am 100% certain that USB cables affect the sound although I don’t know why. I do accept that the USB cables are unlikely to modify the bitstream per-se but I do think that clocks, PSs and interfaces on either side of the cable could have a major influence as can EMI picked up by a cable

I appreciate your comments, but I have heard USB vs optical (and coaxial) SPDIF in other systems as well as in my own. Remember, I have lots of USB cables, including (AudioQuest Diamond, with that ridiculous 72 volt “bias” battery hanging off of it*) as well as USB cables from Kimber, Nordost, Pangea, and various generic cables too numerous to count. 1) In my system, they all sound the same. 2) They all sound inferior to either optical or coaxial SPDIF.

 

* AudioQuest’s cable bias system is patented, but if you look at the patent, it was only granted for analog interconnects, not for digital. Putting an “active shielding system” on a digital cable such as the Diamond USB is like putting an expensive Borla exhaust system on a Model T Ford. It might look interesting, but it won’t do anything to enhance the Model T’s performance!

IOW it’s a “gimmick”.

George

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1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

a complex waveform might be perceivable at lower SPLs than test tones

 

 

 

 That I can agree with, and both John Kenny and myself discussed this as recently as yesterday in another forum.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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23 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

AudioQuest’s cable bias system is patented, but if you look at the patent, it was only granted for analog interconnects, not for digital. Putting an “active shielding system” on a digital cable such as the Diamond USB is like putting an expensive Borla exhaust system on a Model T Ford. It might look interesting, but it won’t do anything to enhance the Model T’s performance!

I'd say it's more comparable in effect to painting racing stripes on a car.

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3 hours ago, Speedskater said:

That statement seems upside down.

 

A complex waveform is likely to have more harmonics.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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13 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I appreciate your comments, but I have heard USB vs optical (and coaxial) SPDIF in other systems as well as in my own. Remember, I have lots of USB cables, including (AudioQuest Diamond, with that ridiculous 72 volt “bias” battery hanging off of it*) as well as USB cables from Kimber, Nordost, Pangea, and various generic cables too numerous to count. 1) In my system, they all sound the same. 2) They all sound inferior to either optical or coaxial SPDIF.

 

* AudioQuest’s cable bias system is patented, but if you look at the patent, it was only granted for analog interconnects, not for digital. Putting an “active shielding system” on a digital cable such as the Diamond USB is like putting an expensive Borla exhaust system on a Model T Ford. It might look interesting, but it won’t do anything to enhance the Model T’s performance!

IOW it’s a “gimmick”.

And putting a dielectric bias system on analogue systems isn't going to do much...

Its not active shielding its 72V DIELECTRIC-BIAS SYSTEM and proof that in the USA you can patent anything...

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Deleted comment -- it was another frustrated response about apparently poorly designed audio equipment causing the audiophile/frustrated engineer to have motivation to tweak their cable arrangements...   Nothing that I say will correct the problem -- other than more integrity wrt manufacturers and salesmanship, and better information to the consumer.   Sorry if anyone read the comment (no expletives, just no benefit in further exposing the frustration about sad quality that need not be so very sad!!!)

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1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

it was another frustrated response about apparently poorly designed audio equipment

As you seem to have some expertise in this area, please describe the details of how a properly designed piece of audio equipment would make all USB cables sound the same.

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32 minutes ago, barrows said:

Well, that is a nice "concept".  In practice how would this be achieved..  Anyone can suggest the concept, actual engineering of the USB interface is an entirely different thing.

Do you agree that if such a device were successfully designed, the cable would make no difference? Or do you believe that cables imbue the signal with some kind of metaphysical properties beyond the reach of science and engineering?

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