Beatles Abbey Road in 5.1, Dolby Atmos and new stereo

[ted_b]

Given that my first real listen to this is on Amazon Music being played through bluetooth IEMs from my iPhone7!!!!...wow, is that two hands tied behind my back?? 

 

Anyway....

 

The surviving members must feel very good about this remix/remaster for many reasons, not the least of which is that their instruments (bass and drums) clearly get the "most improved" awards.  Ringo's percussion work sounds great here, and really musicals-up  several tracks that were splashy (relatively, of course...this is one of the greatest pieces of music regardless) before.  And Paul's bass work is exciting to hear so clearly, let alone creating a better foundation for everything.  And as far as revelatory...like The White Album's Long,Long, Long (IMHO by far the greatest improvement in any remastered Beatle song to date) this version of Sun King is amazing!!  I can't wait to hear this album in a serious environment for it, first on my wonderful stereo system (new target is by new years day), and then in 5.1!! 

[AudioDoctor]

I just gave this a listen on Roon via Qobuz at 24/96, great sounding album!

 

 

[barrows]

This is great news, I'll surely be downloading it soon.

 

I am glad that (finally) the promise of high resolution is starting to come to fruition.  Tool, King Crimson, The Beatles, a bit of Pink Floyd, and lots of Jazz and Classical.  with Amazon coming onboard with hi res streaming, it really seems like hi res is nearly "here"!  At least for audiophiles.

I am still curious as to when the "floodgates" might open for all of the archived (mater tape to DSD) DSD titles as downloads may happen, instead of the slow trickle we seem to get...

A lot of out of print SACDs still are fetching high prices on the secondary market.

[Axial]

 

[Solstice380]

This definitely is the best version ever, period.  It’s totally mesmerizing and can be played as loud as you want, it’s so clear and palpable.  She’s So Heavy is liquid.  

 

As as well as Paul and Ringo getting major improvements the vocals are very real with so much depth.

 

This is using HQPlayer upsampling to DSD128 into the dCS Debussy. Sublime!  I have the 2009 24 Bit apple and the new remasters all blow those away.  

 

It’s currently available for download at 20% off at the usual places.  

[firedog]

2 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

This definitely is the best version ever, period.  It’s totally mesmerizing and can be played as loud as you want, it’s so clear and palpable.  She’s So Heavy is liquid.  

 

As as well as Paul and Ringo getting major improvements the vocals are very real with so much depth.

 

This is using HQPlayer upsampling to DSD128 into the dCS Debussy. Sublime!  I have the 2009 24 Bit apple and the new remasters all blow those away.  

 

It’s currently available for download at 20% off at the usual places.  

I've listened to it about 10 times now and really like it. I have a few quibbles, but no major criticism. I still like the previous versions, too. The original master was really good. 
Yes, it is unusual for digital these days in that it is sort of warm sounding, invites you to turn it up - and sounds good when you do. 

I'm also very impressed with how the strings sound. Giles did his father proud. 

[ted_b]

Steve Hoffman hates it; says it no longer has the density so necessary for this album.  ? 

"I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion regarding the new 50th Anniversary remix of The Beatles “Abbey Road“ Super Deluxe Edition.

Sadly, I agree with Louis Bova's comments. The album is now a mess, so unlovely, so digitally compressed, so bright and unnatural sounding, so sonically compromised that it is headache inducing. I morn the loss of the subtle details and the musicality of the original mix, all micro dynamics squashed flat.

Most people will love the new remix. Some people love GIANT compression. More than we think. Adds "detail" and we know how much that is loved.

Audiophiles, cling to your originals. Everyone else, enjoy. The outtakes are cool. The 5.1 is timid and weak. So there ya go.."

[firedog]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

Steve Hoffman hates it; says it no longer has the density so necessary for this album.  ? 

"I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion regarding the new 50th Anniversary remix of The Beatles “Abbey Road“ Super Deluxe Edition.

Sadly, I agree with Louis Bova's comments. The album is now a mess, so unlovely, so digitally compressed, so bright and unnatural sounding, so sonically compromised that it is headache inducing. I morn the loss of the subtle details and the musicality of the original mix, all micro dynamics squashed flat.

Most people will love the new remix. Some people love GIANT compression. More than we think. Adds "detail" and we know how much that is loved.

Audiophiles, cling to your originals. Everyone else, enjoy. The outtakes are cool. The 5.1 is timid and weak. So there ya go.."

There is some loss of density. Made up for by higher clarity. 

Compressed? Not at all, IMO. 

Let’s see some proof with waveforms. 

[firedog]

With a little help from Ted_b, I've now compared the 24/96 stereo rip to the Qobuz hi-rez stream. 
The Qobuz stream is very noticeably louder. Same system, same settings for playback. It's very obvious when you switch from one feed to the other with the same track playing.

Is it possible the streaming services are being given a different version that's more volume compressed?

 

The rip itself doesn't seem to be compressed at all, and eyeballing the waveforms vs previous versions bears that out. So do the Foobar DR ratings and the measurements of DR in Roon. 

[barrows]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

With a little help from Ted_b, I've now compared the 24/96 stereo rip to the Qobuz hi-rez stream. 
The Qobuz stream is very noticeably louder. Same system, same settings for playback. It's very obvious when you switch from one feed to the other with the same track playing.

Is it possible the streaming services are being given a different version that's more volume compressed?

 

The rip itself doesn't seem to be compressed at all, and eyeballing the waveforms vs previous versions bears that out. So do the Foobar DR ratings and the measurements of DR in Roon. 

Hmmm?  Interesting.  Can you actually measure the difference in SPL?  This makes me wonder if we have a new kind of loudness wars...  Where a streaming service might be boosting the level of their streams to sound "better"?  I guess anything is possible, but it seems unlikely to me that the Record Company/Distributor would bother making a higher compression version of a Hi Res file for streaming Distribution?

[firedog]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Hmmm?  Interesting.  Can you actually measure the difference in SPL?  This makes me wonder if we have a new kind of loudness wars...  Where a streaming service might be boosting the level of their streams to sound "better"?  I guess anything is possible, but it seems unlikely to me that the Record Company/Distributor would bother making a higher compression version of a Hi Res file for streaming Distribution?

Ted just sent me a file of "Come Together" from the HDTracks 24/96 download. It sounds like the streaming version and not like the rip. Really sounds different and it's clear it's a different mastering. 

Acc'd to Roon, the BR rip of Come Together has an R128 DR of 4.4 and the download has a DR of 4.2. 
I got my  actual real db meter out (a device, not a phone) and measured the peak db level of each Come Together rip-in other words, it was set to show me the loudest reading for each song: the download file peak level  for Come Together was about 3db louder at it's loudest point than the BR rip, and noticeably louder on a continuous basis. 

 

At the Hoffman forum they are discussing how the CD and BR mastering are different, with the CD being more compressed. They say that was also true for the previous 2 GM remixes of Beatles albums. Apparently the streaming services are being provided with the master that was sampled down to make the CD release, and not the master on the BR disc. I'm also not sure the VC is the only difference. They really sound different. 

 

To my taste, the BR rip is the "audiophile" version. It isn't as loud, and sounds more similar to previous versions of the album. 

[barrows]

Wow, seems really weird that there would be different masterings for BR release and a download release at the same sample rate.  I can see why there might be a different mastering for CD.  But different masterings for two formats (BR and DL) of a 24/96 file seems like wasting a bunch of money, as mastering again just costs more: I wonder what the reasoning  behind spending that additional money would be?

I guess we need to have an interview with the mastering engineer to understand the reasoning...

[Jud]

20 minutes ago, barrows said:

Wow, seems really weird that there would be different masterings for BR release and a download release at the same sample rate.  I can see why there might be a different mastering for CD.  But different masterings for two formats (BR and DL) of a 24/96 file seems like wasting a bunch of money, as mastering again just costs more: I wonder what the reasoning  behind spending that additional money would be?

I guess we need to have an interview with the mastering engineer to understand the reasoning...

 

Seems reasonable from what @firedog says that the streaming and CD mastering are the same, different from the 24/96 BR. So either the streaming version is the original 24/96 CD mix that was downsampled, or the 16/44.1 CD mix was [fill in the blank].

[firedog]

Just now, Jud said:

 

Seems reasonable from what @firedog says that the streaming and CD mastering are the same, different from the 24/96 BR. So either the streaming version is the original 24/96 mix downsampled for CD, or the 16/44.1 CD mix was [fill in the blank].

At the Hoffman forum they seem to be saying that the same thing was done with the remixes of Sgt Pepper and the White Album.
In any case, makes me very glad I have the BR box set coming and didn't save money and buy the hires download (and anyway, I wanted the book). 

[wgscott]

I think we are going to need one of those "which version should I buy" reviews.

[ted_b]

My Bluray box just arrived (the stuff I sent Firedog was sent to me from a colleague) and I'm ripping the 2 channel as I type this.  I will send a couple tracks to firedog to make sure the bd rip I previously sent him was legit.   I got wind of these differences from a Facebook post by Steve (Hoffman).  Weird stuff.  Stay tuned.

[Jud]

Looks like I want the box, unless the streaming services can get the 24/96 used for the BR. I remember this as well from the previous two remasters, and DR Database also shows different values for CD and BR if I remember correctly.

[barrows]

Abbey Road is ingrained in me from my very early years.  It was probably one of the very first "albums" I ever had, gifted to me for Christmas on cassette.  I often dislike having to purchase physical media (too much "stuff" around here!), and I have no capability for BR ripping.

I think I'll try the DL to see how I like the sound, but will also stay tuned here.  (I have not, yet, purchased set. Pepper's or The White Album in hi res).

Anyone have contact info for the Mastering engineer...  maybe going to the "source" would provide some clarity?

[firedog]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Abbey Road is ingrained in me from my very early years.  It was probably one of the very first "albums" I ever had, gifted to me for Christmas on cassette.  I often dislike having to purchase physical media (too much "stuff" around here!), and I have no capability for BR ripping.

I think I'll try the DL to see how I like the sound, but will also stay tuned here.  (I have not, yet, purchased set. Pepper's or The White Album in hi res).

Anyone have contact info for the Mastering engineer...  maybe going to the "source" would provide some clarity?

AFAIR Giles Martin has a FB page, whether he will respond is something else.
And who knows, maybe the UME people put out a different streaming version all on their own? 

[firedog]

Well I will say it again: the BluRay is definitely the version to have, at least for 2 channel. It sounds like a remix, but a lot more like the previous mixes/masterings. 

[firedog]

A guy at the Hoffman forum says the ripped the CD and the BluRay and volume matched them so they playback at the same level (in other words, reduced the volume of the CD) and says they sound the same. 

I don't have any easy way to do that, so can't say. But for sure the "hotter" sound of some of the versions - at the very least - changes the perception of more than just the overall volume. Relative volume of various sounds/instruments does that. You reduce highs, you seemingly hear more midrange, etc. 

[robocop]

Once again Giles Martin has done a superb job of this remaster probably got some of the best ears in the recording industry at the moment. Interesting for all to note a member of another forum has published these DR figures of both the HD Tracks download 24/96 and official Blueray 24/96:

 

Both with foobar2000 1.3.16 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

 

Analyzed: The Beatles / Abbey Road - 2019 - (Super Deluxe Edition) (Remastered) Stereo - HD Track download
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8       -0.09 dB    -9.83 dB      4:19 01-Come Together (2019 Mix)
DR8       -0.09 dB   -10.51 dB      3:02 02-Something (2019 Mix)
DR10      -0.09 dB   -12.00 dB      3:28 03-Maxwell's Silver Hammer (2019 Mix)
DR8       -0.09 dB    -9.35 dB      3:27 04-Oh! Darling (2019 Mix)
DR8       -0.09 dB    -9.67 dB      2:51 05-Octopus's Garden (2019 Mix)
DR7       -0.09 dB    -8.36 dB      7:47 06-I Want You (She's So Heavy) (2019 Mix)
DR9       -0.09 dB   -11.03 dB      3:06 07-Here Comes The Sun (2019 Mix)
DR10      -0.17 dB   -12.47 dB      2:46 08-Because (2019 Mix)
DR11      -0.09 dB   -13.83 dB      4:03 09-You Never Give Me Your Money (2019 Mix)
DR9       -0.18 dB   -11.39 dB      2:26 10-Sun King (2019 Mix)
DR9       -0.09 dB    -9.87 dB      1:06 11-Mean Mr Mustard (2019 Mix)
DR8       -0.09 dB    -9.39 dB      1:13 12-Polythene Pam (2019 Mix)
DR8       -0.09 dB    -8.98 dB      1:59 13-She Came In Through The Bathroom Window (2019 Mix)
DR9       -0.09 dB   -12.77 dB      1:31 14-Golden Slumbers (2019 Mix)
DR9       -0.09 dB    -9.60 dB      1:36 15-Carry That Weight (2019 Mix)
DR9       -0.09 dB   -11.26 dB      2:22 16-The End (2019 Mix)
DR9       -0.15 dB   -16.85 dB      0:23 17-Her Majesty (2019 Mix)

 

Analyzed: Beatles / Abbey Road - 2019 - Bluray (24bit 96khz) - Stereo - 50th Anniversary Super Deluxe Edition
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10      -0.33 dB   -12.63 dB      4:21 01-Come Together
DR10      -0.19 dB   -13.31 dB      3:02 02-Something
DR12      -0.18 dB   -14.79 dB      3:28 03-Maxwells Silver Hammer
DR10      -0.19 dB   -12.15 dB      3:27 04-Oh Darling
DR11      -0.24 dB   -12.47 dB      2:51 05-Octopuses Garden
DR9       -0.33 dB   -11.16 dB      7:47 06-I Want You (Shes So Heavy)
DR12      -0.18 dB   -13.83 dB      3:06 07-Here Comes The Sun
DR10      -1.91 dB   -15.27 dB      2:46 08-Because
DR12      -0.18 dB   -16.63 dB      4:03 09-You Never Give Me Your Money
DR10      -2.24 dB   -14.24 dB      2:26 10-Sun King
DR11      -0.18 dB   -12.66 dB      1:06 11-Mean Mr Mustard
DR11      -0.18 dB   -12.38 dB      1:13 12-Polythene Pam
DR11      -0.18 dB   -11.77 dB      1:59 13-She Came In Through The Bathroom Window
DR11      -0.36 dB   -15.56 dB      1:31 14-Golden Slumbers
DR11      -0.22 dB   -12.39 dB      1:36 15-Carry That Weight
DR11      -0.18 dB   -14.05 dB      2:22 16-The End
DR9       -0.95 dB   -20.31 dB      0:26 17-Her Majesty

 

One comment was the HD track download, is like it is for use on mobile phones where the mainstream sales are now. Anyway suffice to say, get the Official Blueray is the best for sound. Shame they don't sell it separately as its all I want personally but you have to buy the super deluxe package to get it.

[barrows]

18 minutes ago, robocop said:

One comment was the HD track download, is like it is for use on mobile phones where the mainstream sales are now. Anyway suffice to say, get the Official Blueray is the best for sound. Shame they don't sell it separately as its all I want personally but you have to buy the super deluxe package to get it.

That makes no sense:  Who loads up their phone with 24/96 music files?  And if anyone is paying a premium for 24/96, would not they prefer the best sounding version?  I can think of no sensible reason for anyone to make  separate masterings for 24/96 to distribute to download sites and 24/96 for BluRay release???  Just seems nutty to me.

[firedog]

4 minutes ago, barrows said:

That makes no sense:  Who loads up their phone with 24/96 music files?  And if anyone is paying a premium for 24/96, would not they prefer the best sounding version?  I can think of no sensible reason for anyone to make  separate masterings for 24/96 to distribute to download sites and 24/96 for BluRay release???  Just seems nutty to me.

If all they did for the download was take the BluRay master and pump up the volume a bit, it is almost no cost. Especially if they were using the pumped up version as the base for the  downsample to Redbook. 

Still seems weird that they have a different hi-res master just for streaming though. I also don't understand why they'd want to pump up the "audiophile" version. Just shows how little the labels care about SQ or audiophiles. 

[Le Concombre Masqué]

On 9/27/2019 at 6:07 PM, firedog said:

I've listened to it about 3 times now. I actually like the cymbal sound - I think it sounds more like the real thing than previous versions. 

As far as negatives: like most good digital remasters of tape, it adds space between the instruments, a blacker background, and makes it easier to hear detail. But: it also loses a little of that "denseness" that analog has so that it sounds a bit less "together". Not enough to be distracting or bothersome, but it's noticeable. I think it leads to a subjective perception of a little less power or "thrust" on some of the sections, especially in the medley on side two. 

I'll have to play with converting it to DSD or running it through my "Abbey Road Vinyl" software simulator just to see how it sounds. Maybe a bit more like tape, hopefully without losing the detail, etc. 
 

But don't get me wrong, I really like it. 

I have argued against MP filters but there's a good use for them : get back "togetherness" with heavily miked/mixed recordings