Optimizing NUC + Euphony Stylus + iFi into SA-10

[Anwar]

I bought the Marantz SA-10 SACD player about a year ago.  It took me a while to figure out how to get the best sound when using external renderer compared to playing CD/SACD on SA-10 and playing music files from USB drive connected to SA-10.  There is no audible difference when playing physical media vs playing music files from USB drive with the SA-10.  However, I was unable to get the same sound quality when using external renderer until recently.  So this is my humble experience sharing, not a review.  This is also my first post here.

My system is pretty revealing although it is not really high-end.  It’s in the living room.  Eventually I plan to have a dedicated listening room.

• Torus AVR30 wall mount – isolation transformer plus voltage regulation (230V country)
• Digital sources: Marantz SA-10, Oppo UDP-205
• Analog: TW Acustic Raven Two turntable with 2 tonearms: Raven 10.5 (Benz Micro LP-S) and Tri-planar Mk7 U2 (Quintet Black).  Audio Research Ref 2 SE phono stage
• Passive preamp : Bent Audio + Dave Slagle pure silver autoformer in fully balanced configuration (4 autoformers total).  Internal wiring using Swiss-made Audio Consulting 0.5mm single core silver wires with cotton sleeving
• Slave passive preamp for HT channels: 3 copper autoformers controlling volume of Oppo 205 center and rear channels into MC303.  Follow volume setting of stereo preamp
• Bryston 10B-SUB active crossover
• McIntosh MC452 driving frequencies above 60 Hz into Focal Utopia III Diablo
• McIntosh MC303  driving center channel (another Diablo) and rear channels (Focal Electra IW1002 BE in-ceiling)
• 2 units of JL Audio fathom f113 subwoofers receiving frequencies below 60 Hz from 10B-SUB

 

So why not just play music files from USB drive connected to SA-10?  It’s limited to PCM 192k and DSD 2x / 5.6.  When using external renderer connected to the SA-10 USB Audio type B input, the maximum rates double to PCM 384k and DSD 4x / 11.2.  Navigating music files inside the USB drive is painful – it can only be done with the supplied remote control with the help of single-line SA-10 display.  There is 1000 folder limit, and the SA-10 struggles with reading large SSD drive; most of the times it hangs, sometimes require restart.  The USB drive must be formatted as FAT32 and some characters are not supported.  Folders and files are ordered based on creation history, not based on file/folder names like Windows.  It feels like there is an ancient computer inside SA-10 running DOS!  Also, when playing DSD files from USB drive or DVD-R, there is relay click and mute between tracks, hence no gapless playback for DSD.  Gapless DSD playback is a requirement for me.

I started computer audio playback pretty late as I use computers too many hours per day.  My first digital music player was Sony HAP-Z1ES, but its USB Audio output quality is lacking.  I tried building my own streamer/renderer.  Using Intel NUC7i5BNH with 16GB RAM, 256GB Samsung EVO 970 NVMe M.2 SSD for O/S and 2TB Samsung EVO 860 SATA3 SSD for music files, I tried various playback software for both Windows 10 and Linux.  Among all the players, I was impressed with Euphony.  I utilized 30-day trials for version 2 and then again for version 3.  Eventually I purchased Euphony version 3.

The Intel NUC was powered by China-made Zerozone 19V 4A linear power supply purchased through ebay.  Through Euphony, I throttled down maximum CPU speed to 1.8GHz – temperature of the 2 cores remains around 50 deg C, hence no noisy CPU fan.  Curious USB cable was used between NUC and SA-10.  Initially I was impressed with the NUC as its sound is better than Sony HAP-Z1ES.  But when NUC is compared to SA-10 internal rendering, the sound is inferior; missing details, more digital sound especially with decays, and poor bass control.  Even though Euphony supports DSD 4x / 11.2 playback, playing DSD 4x from NUC sounds inferior compared to playing DSD 2x from SA-10 USB drive.

I then purchased a used Innuos Zenith Mk.II with 2TB internal SSD for experimentation purpose.  I never like the idea of spending too much on a streamer, especially when I don’t need the CD ripping functionality of Zenith.  Not to my surprise, Zenith sounds better compared to NUC, but the low-end slam and bass tightness cannot match SA-10 internal rendering.  Musical instruments sound slightly different with Zenith.

My goal is to make external renderers able to match the sound quality of SA-10 internal rendering.  When playing CD/SACD or music files from USB drive, I believe the short path of digital signals and isolation from external noise resulted in superb sound.  I consider SA-10 internal rendering as the reference sound.  Please note that there are no measurements – all tests done by listening, not just by me, but also by my audiophile friends.  Previously I had Denafrips Terminator for 4 months but was unable to optimize the external renderer as I don’t know what the right sound is – each digital input gives different sound, with USB not being the best.  The Terminator sounds the best when Marantz SA-10 was used as CD transport with its coaxial output into Terminator.  The Terminator was eventually returned due to issues with DSD playback.  Please note however that Terminator has an updated DSP + USB board recently.

I explored USB regen – read various reviews and forums.  Not willing to spend too much, especially regens which require separate expensive linear power supply costing more than the regen, I settled with iFi Micro iUSB3.0.  Per AudioStream iFi Micro review’s recommendation, I also purchased Wireworld Starlight 8 USB 3.0 A to B cable for connection between NUC/Zenith and iFi Micro.  I ordered a customized Curious USB 300 mm flipped cable and use it for connection between iFi Micro to SA-10 USB type B input (DAC).  SA-10 already has USB ground galvanic isolation, so I don’t think another external galvanic isolation is necessary.  I also purchased iFi iSilencer 3.0 for fun.

 

About 168 hours are required to break in the iFi products and Starlight 8 USB 3.0 cable.  I put an old, first generation DragonFly into iFi Micro USB output so that it acts as the DAC during the break in.  This is to prevent unnecessary aging of my beloved SA-10.  Intel NUC was used and a selected music folder was played continuously.

I tried various USB ports on the NUC – some ports are better.  The best combination is with the Starlight 8 USB 3.0 cable connected to top rear USB3 port, iSilencer connected to the bottom rear port, and another iSilencer in front.  With this combination, the sound quality from NUC/Euphony/iFi is close to SA-10 internal rendering, but the way the music flows and the definition of micro details still cannot match SA-10 internal rendering.

I removed the 2TB Samsung EVO 860 SATA from NUC and use it as an external USB drive, first into iSilencer in front of NUC, and then into iFi Micro second USB port.  With the Samsung SSD connected to iFi Micro second USB port, I finally got the aha moment.  It sounds exactly the same with SA-10 internal rendering.  Finally I was able to hear DSD 4x / 11.2 at its best.  So SSD is indeed noisy and it pollutes the 5V power when used inside the NUC.

iFi Micro and iSilencer fixed the NUC issues of missing details, digital sound especially with decays, and poor bass control.  All those digital glares were replaced with smooth, analog sounding music.  Piano decays sound so good and addictive.  Out of my own curiosity, for connection between NUC and iFi Micro, I replaced the Starlight 8 with 1.2m Curious USB cable I’ve used for about a year.  Suddenly there are more details, but very digital and scattered.  The smooth analog sounding sound is gone with Curious.  Either iFi is correct that USB3 can transmit data better than USB2, and/or the Starlight 8 USB 3.0 cable is really good.  Between iFi Micro USB output to SA-10, short Curious USB cable remains my choice.

I also tried using the iFi products with Zenith.  I’ve seen an advert where someone sold his iFi Micro iUSB3.0 after he bought a Zenith Mk.III since he thinks with Zenith, USB regen is not required.  With my Zenith Mk.II, it makes a difference.  Zenith has 2 accessible USB ports even though the SuperMicro embedded motherboard has a lot more.  1 USB2 port is for DAC connection and 1 USB3 port is for backup.  Technically both ports can work with iFi Micro.  Using Starlight 8 from Zenith USB3 into iFi Micro gives better results, but adding iSilencer 3.0 into the USB3 port before Starlight 8 cable gives even better results.  This is different from NUC where putting iSilencer adjacent to the port with Starlight 8 cable gives better results.  With Zenith, musical instruments sound slightly different.  I don’t think I am done yet with getting the best sound from Zenith, or maybe it was voiced differently such that it will never be able to match the sound of SA-10 internal rendering.

I am really happy with the results with NUC/Euphony/iFi and very surprised Zenith Mk.II can be bettered by DIY solution.  Currently Zenith OS does not support DSD 4x / 11.2 with SA-10.  Nuno promised they will add that capability in the next kernel update, but it was not in 1.4.3 released recently.  Euphony still does not support Native DSD with SA-10 even after multiple promises by Robert.  DSD 4x / 11.2 is done as DoP.  Right now my only choice to play DSD 4x is with NUC/Euphony.  I am tempted to build another NUC.  Despite its limitations like having DC to DC converter on the motherboard, it can still produce very good sound with the right software and USB cleaners.
 

[jaynyc]

I really like this approach of using a dedicated hifi source component which you enjoy and then trying to configure & optimize network/streaming/file playback to beat it....   I’ve been doing same with a Cyrus CDi recently.

 

[Anwar]

I would like to share additional updates I have done which resulted is much better sound from NUC + Euphony Stylus combo that matches the sound quality of playing discs or music files directly from Marantz SA-10.

• I added iFi DC iPurifier2 between Zerozone LPS and Intel NUC
• I changed the stock cable from NUC to USB SSD enclosure to WireWorld Starlight 8 USB3 A-M

There were also a few updates to Euphony (including new kernel, ramroot and dynamic native DSD support) that brings up its quality to different level.

 

The iFi DC iPurifier2 reduces background noise with more details can be heard.  I tried bypassing iFi Micro iUSB3 - the difference in SQ with and without Micro iUSB3 is a lot less compared to not having iPurifier2.

Even though Euphony Stylus reads the current track into memory and before it plays from memory, I am really surprised that the USB cable to SSD enclosure can make that big difference.

 

The total costs of all components in the picture above is about the same price I paid for the used Zenith Mk2 with 2TB internal SSD (paid SGD3k for it).  But the SQ NUC + Euphony Stylus with the accessories above is at different class.  Yes, it's messy, not a 1-box solution, but I am fine with that.  There are a few problems I need to mention:

• iFi DC iPurifier2 runs hot
• When Euphony Stylues is set to Native DSD with SA-10, there are problems when switching from PCM to DSD, sometimes the SA-10 DAC locks up.  Using DoP is okay.

I wish one day I can compare my DIY solution with high-end streamers that cost a lot more.

[Blackmorec]

Hi Anwar, 

Have you ever tried switching off and unplugging everything, then plug in just the Zenith and Marantz, rip a CD to the Zenith’s internal SSD and send that directly into the Marantz via your best USB cable?

 

I implemented a Zenith SE which sounded pretty damned good, even with a cheap Chord C USB cable. Implementing a TX-USBUltra + sPS-500 was always a downgrade and even just plugging in the TX’s standard wall wart PS robbed the system of some of its magic. 

[Anwar]

Hi Blackmorec,

 

Yes, when I first bought Zenith Mk2, it was connected directly to Marantz SA-10 using Curious 1.0m USB cable.  I tried again recently (direct USB connection from Zenith to Marantz) when my hifi friends visited me - they were all surprised Zenith Mk2 was bested by NUC combo.  The Zenith Mk2 internal SSD and NUC+Euphony external SSD both have the same music files, which include CDs ripped by Sony HAP-Z1ES, SACDs ripped by Oppo 105D, and high-res files in both PCM and DSD formats.  I've tried ripping some CDs with Zenith and I don't hear any difference in SQ compared to Sony's rip, but metadata by Sony with Gracenote database is always more accurate.  Some CDs ripped as WAV files by Zenith will not play inside my car, but no problem with CDs ripped by Sony.

 

Zenith SE is a much better product compared to Mk2 - the power supply is different.  I think SE is still better than Zenith Mk3.  One day after the warranty expires, I would like to tweak my Mk2.

[TheAttorney]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:07 AM, Anwar said:

iFi Micro and iSilencer fixed the NUC issues of missing details, digital sound especially with decays, and poor bass control.  All those digital glares were replaced with smooth, analog sounding music.  

 

 

Could you elaborate on the value added by the iSilencer? When added in between NUC and SSD drive compared to being added to a spare port? How big is the impact compared to, say, the DC ipurifier or iMicro?

 

My NUC/Stylus has a USB stick holding the music files. With Optane caching, ramroot and 100% play buffering, this USB stick is not being accessed during music playback. And I don't hear much difference when the USB stick is removed altogether. 

 

Nevertheless, I'm open to the possibity that it is impacting SQ is some subtle way. As well as the possibility that plugging iSilencers into the spare sockets could also improve SQ. Were there diminishing returns as you progressively added more iSilencers?

 

[Anwar]

I recommend start with iFi DC iPurifier2 and 1 unit of iSilencer3.0.  Micro iUSB3.0 needs another good quality USB3 A-B cable, so it will be the most costly upgrade.

 

The iSilencer reduces background noise.  My preference is not to put it between NUC USB port and USB Audio cable - it feels like iSilencer has its own sound.  I plugged in 2 iSilencers in series into the USB port next to the USB port used by USB Audio cable.

 

I learnt about iSilencer from here: 

Go to page 15

 

Let me copy some music files into USB stick and plug the stick directly vs through iSilencer - I will report out the SQ difference.

[Anwar]

@TheAttorney, I have tried playing from USB stick with and without iFi iSilencer3.0.  Pretty big difference.  When playing music from USB stick directly attached to NUC, it feels flat (collapsed soundstage), shorter decays, with missing micro details.  Putting iSilencer3.0 in between USB stick and NUC brings it back to the reference sound.  I use regular speed Transcend USB3 stick.  Due to not very high speed reads (110MB/s sustained read speed), when playing very high res files like DSD256, sometimes the SQ is not good, especially when the file is huge.  This is despite "buffer before play" turned on.

 

So my updated recommendation: start with iFi DC iPurifier2 and 2 units of iSilencer3.0.

[TheAttorney]

Thank you @Anwar

 

I may well give the iSilencer a try in due course, after my sytem has settled down with my current round of cable trials.

 

But I'm unlikely to bother with the DC IPurifier because the designer of my high quality PH SR7 (with short silver DC cables) has gone to great lengths to minimise the output impedance of this power supply. So adding anything to that path will impact that low impedance to some extent. There are other ways of reducing DC line noise, such as JSSG360. So even if I'm missing out here, I have to draw the line somewhere: I'm not going to try every tweak in the world - and this will be one of them.

 

[cjf]

This may not be exactly on topic with what you are doing but it does involve the use of the Intel NUC. I'm curious if you've tried turning off (in BIOS) the "Turbo Boost" feature on the CPU? I recently discovered this "feature" was hindering/throttling the CPU on my own NUC. I was seeing pretty high CPU utilization all the time while running ROON with DSP and Convolution enabled on my Windows 10 based NUC.

 

The tell tale sign other than the obvious high usage seen in Performance Monitor was in the Windows Event Log where there would be a regular entry about CPU Core 0-4 running at a reduced power level. It took awhile to find the culprit but it turned out the Turbo feature of the CPU was the reason. One would think something called Turbo would do the opposite but in this case not so much.

 

Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. As soon as I disabled this on my NUC CPU usage dropped by almost half. There are of course other things to "tweak" in the BIOS which also help but I'll leave that for another time unless you are interested in hearing more about it.

[Anwar]

Thanks for sharing.

 

In my NUC7i5BNH setup, turbo boost is turned off.  Hyper threading is turned on.  BIOS power management was set to high performance and this makes a difference to SQ (in terms of dynamics).  I control CPU speed directly from Euphony advanced settings, typically at 2/3 of max CPU speed without turbo boost, resulting in CPU temperature at 50 C or below (depends on room temperature).  CPU load is pretty low since the NUC is only running Euphony Stylus.

[Middy]

Hi all and @Anwar,

 

I am running the euphony trial atm and so far so good on a single Celeron NUC.

 

I have had the ifi iDefender isilencer when they came out but only got a little to nothing in increased/perceived fidelity on an old PC/ phone transport.

As i have an external SSD i tried both in series, as before i had on the upstream usb cable to an intona/ iso regen...  (played around experimenting 😉) maybe something there??, hard to tell easily.

I searched Euphony and found yours thread below bobs great experiments thread and saw you had two isilencers.

 

I really am suprised at the second in the unused back port that came today.

 

A quick isopropyl clean and deoxit then in but what a change, it really has snapped back into focus the outer detail in my music, sounds shaper and more defined.

I didnt expect much if anything but wow really happy.

Not sure if the idefender i am using to port 5v from a phone battery bank is helping reduce noise from the ssd/reducing bus noise?

Normally I at least try and get a few more results from others before endorsing anything so if you have these in a draw or secondary system try it.

I may be tempted to by a third to see if it scales or diminishing returns or nothing.

Magic factor x2 for me? ifi state double for double noise reduction

I know the big boys dont use NUCs as it has no ATX connections for separate clean rails and the NUC uses DC to DC converters. So this is maybe reducing that noise but whats more important clean DC or packet noise? 

 

Just a big thank you all and if i push for a third ill chime in on any changes.

 

A silly question have you also removed the monitor keyboard  mouse. It helps as much as going to a fanless case...

(Or those considering going trying a NUC or Euphony)

 

Good luck 

Dave😀

 

Ps my system is a bit more than mentioned ;

Chord Quest powered by

Uptone LPS1 7v to Ldvr DXP LT3045 regs 5V out to DC ipurifier2

 

Intona feeding ISOREGEN lps1 to DAC

 

To head amp Gilmore lite MK2 

MrSpeakers Ether and Ether2 headphones

 

Modded 13v Sbooster: new low ESR Caps, quad core canare replaced cable with older DC Ipurifier hard wired in feeding the NUC

 

Balanced isolation transformer to 230v sinewave regenerator. 

X1 AC I purifier..

Alot when you actally write it down... if the wife realised..

 

 

[Gavin1977]

Interesting idea to connect the SSD externally via iFi Micro iUSB3.  I run Euphony on a DNHE NUC with a SOTM tx-USBultra.  The USBultra makes a significant difference, but presently I only use a USB single port to connect to my DAC.  Of course this model has two ports, so I wonder what the difference will be for SSD connected via tx-USBultra vs local playback on M.2 optane or SATA?

[Anwar]

Hi Dave @Middy, I am glad you find my sharing useful.  Please don't underestimate Intel NUC when used as a music streamer - I am happy with it.  It seems you have a good system.  I run Euphony on the NUC headless, that means no connections to HDMI monitor or TV, no keyboard and no mouse.

 

Hi @Gavin1977, I've tried putting the Samsung 2TB music SSD inside the NUC.  When the music SSD is external through iFi Micro iUSB3, the SQ improvement is significant, but it also needs a good USB3 cable.

 

Recently I played with isolating the NUC.  First I tried IsoAcoustics Iso Puck, 1 pc under the NUC.  Then I replaced the Iso Puck with 4 pcs of Isonodes Large with the supplied 3M double-sided tape, stuck underneath the NUC.  Since the NUC is too light for Iso Puck, Isonodes gives better sound quality improvement.  I also put Isonodes under iFi Micro iUSB3 as well.  All these cheap upgrades have SQ improvements and I am happy with it.

 

[Middy]

Sorry i never asked is the NUC in its original case or in a fanless one?

Going fanless does add a bit more detail again. Lots of detail on doing it here or a PC ahop can do it quick i imagine for very little...

Trying one more isilencer as i was so impressed with the improvement. Detail and new 3 dimensional aspect made me stay up late re listening to my favourite tracks. For me it was almost as big a leap from original NUC /windows to Linux euphony +fanless case. Comes tomorrow  from Amazon.. so fingers crossed

[Middy]

The third I silencer added maybe a little more but this was added to a front usb port with the Memory stick. Last being free for the usb out.

I am still not sure if the original is broken as the leap in SQ was so profound.

I cant see another way to filter the switching voltage noise on a NUC mobo. You can add clean power in with expensive PSUs or reclock outward usb DATA signal out with custom hardware. 

The modded 13v Sbooster is staying, cant afford a Sean jacobs Paul Haynes or UPtone LPS1.2. My cash went on the new Dan clark Ether2 headphone. 

 

I can't remove any hardware to reduce this and give Euphony a chance to shine, so i will try the Apacer DDR3  ram as a last tweak as this is meant to help especially as this is where its stored in ramroot.

I hope it lives up to its reputation as it was more expensive than my second hand NUC.

 

No big experiments but so far the 2 i silencers near the power supply yielded the magic. The third maybe helped more..

Ill report if the top end Apacer Ram makes a difference.

 

Cheers

Dave