HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

[k6davis]

1 minute ago, Em2016 said:

Isn't the "base" frequency of the 'K' variants higher?

 

In the case of i7-9700 vs 9700K its 3.00 vs 3.60 GHz base ?

 

This higher base frequency doesn't make a difference?

 

Ahh... That I did not know. I'd go for the i7-9700K, which I did. And it's working great. 

[asdf1000]

11 minutes ago, k6davis said:

 

Ahh... That I did not know. I'd go for the i7-9700K, which I did. And it's working great. 

 

No problem. So as I mentioned in the other thread , with no GPU offloading, there seems to be a pattern of 'K' variants being required to pull off PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2 ...

 

The pattern of working CPU's, so far: i7-8086K, i7-8700K, i7-9700K and i9-9900K....

 

All 95W TDP

[k6davis]

Sounds right. IIRC, some people had accomplished it with older processors (all 'K'), but it took overclocking and or water cooling.

[asdf1000]

3 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Hopefully, there will be rapid use of the info to enable off-the-shelf players from the likes of small green computer etc - for those of us who don’t tinker much with hardware et al.

 

Fanless i9-9900K , built for industrial applications. Should be fine for HQPlayer...

 

https://fit-iot.com/web/

 

5 year warranty.

 

Maybe @agillis @vortecjr can advise if they can build a fanless i9-9900K and price, since a few may be interested here?

 

[jamesg11]

Currently SGC offer this - Intel i9 (Coffee Lake) 8-core processor.

[asdf1000]

6 minutes ago, jamesg11 said:

Currently SGC offer this - Intel i9 (Coffee Lake) 8-core processor.

 

Yep that's not the i9-9900K, that's why I tagged Andrew and JR above.... Specifically so they can consider and share an idea of the price here, for those interested in an i9-9900K fanless build.

 

There are a couple fanless cases that can support 95W TDP... HDPlex and Streacom are a couple I know...

 

[k6davis]

45 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Fanless i9-9900K , built for industrial applications. Should be fine for HQPlayer...

 

https://fit-iot.com/web/

 

That's nice. It would be more than "fine". 😀 Looks like an excellent machine and costs less than I thought it would.

 

I approach this from the opposite angle though. I got the CPU and a great mobo for about $400 (I got some good discounts) and swapped them out in the machine I already had. But my machine is not fanless like that one. I try to spend modestly on computer parts because of obsolescence. I just bought this one, but I'm already hoping for the next one that'll do EC DSD512! 

 

If you go that route, I expect that it'll work very well. 

[asdf1000]

34 minutes ago, k6davis said:

That's nice. It would be more than "fine". 😀 Looks like an excellent machine and costs less than I thought it would.

 

Hehe, yes the mention of 'fine for HQP' after mentioning industrial application and it's 5 year warranty, was a little playful...

 

It will be properly passively cooled.

[emc_1984]

5 hours ago, emc_1984 said:

I can play 44.1-192k -> constant DSD256 11.2896Mhz with polysinc-xtr-2s & ext2 

OS: Windows Server 2019/Power plan: perfomance mode,  unusing services killed(DiagTrack, Print Spool et)

i5-8600T ( all cores in Turbo Boost 3.5Ghz)

Palit GTX 1050Ti

3200Mhz CL14 RAM

BIOS:  diable C-States , Virtualisation disabled

HQP Setting: Buffer 100-250mS, Multicore : Auto

I try this configuration with Ubuntu Server 18.04  HQP E and it shutter.

Errata: I can't ASDM7EC only 5

HQ Settings: CUDA offload : always on

[sledwards]

• CPU: i7-8700K w/ Corsair H100i AIO
• GPU: GeForce RTX-2080 for CUDA offload
• OS/HQPlayer: Ubuntu 18.04 Server w/ Embedded or Windows 10 Pro w/ Desktop
• Performance
  • DSD256 with ASDM7EC modulator
  • All filters and input bit rates
  • No over clocking, CPU temp approx. 50 deg C

[rickca]

3 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Fanless i9-9900K , built for industrial applications.

Really expensive, but that Natural Airflow Technology looks very interesting.

[asdf1000]

8 minutes ago, rickca said:

Really expensive, but that Natural Airflow Technology looks very interesting.

 

5 years warranty is much more than typical though, so that would be part of the price.

 

It's not cheap but price looks fair to me, considering 5 year warranty and a very good fanless case design (case is good for 300W....)

 

[JTS]

4 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Can your i9-9900K actually do PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2, without overclocking?

 

No idea. It's an active production machine I spent some time on balancing, so I'm not going to test this. It was overclocked with production in mind - as a side benefit it runs HQPlayer EC modulators with any of the filters.

 

There are likely other users running stock 9900K processors that could test this. I think there is someone on the main HQPlayer thread running one.

[JTS]

One thing worth mentioning. My home setup uses an older video production machine. It's loud, but I keep it in a separate room altogether and use a Mac Mini running W10 as an NAA running into an Intona, SU-1, Holo Spring. For those looking for a "silent" solution, this is one possibility.

 

I think it would be next to impossible to run EC modulators without running fans - though that industrial box looks super cool. It has a wimpy GPU, though, which would limit your filters use.

 

Putting the box in another room and using a quiet NAA was the workaround for me.

[joelha]

13 hours ago, ted_b said:

Joel,

A free trial of HQPlayer Pro would allow you to record offline that yourself...the only downside is 60 seconds max per sample.

Thanks, as always, Ted.

 

Joel

[joelha]

13 hours ago, ted_b said:

Joel,

A free trial of HQPlayer Pro would allow you to record offline that yourself...the only downside is 60 seconds max per sample.

After checking, Ted, the other downside is that the output file is limited to 24 bits.

 

So my request remains.

 

I'd love to find a way to hear a sample file so I could hear what this program will do.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Joel

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, joelha said:

After checking, Ted, the other downside is that the output file is limited to 24 bits.

 

So my request remains.

 

I'd love to find a way to hear a sample file so I could hear what this program will do.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Joel

 Not my experience. Several here have used it to produce ec-based high bit rate DSD samples

[joelha]

You haven't let me down yet, Ted.

 

I'll check it out.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Joel

[rando]

On 8/7/2019 at 10:51 AM, ted_b said:

I am starting this thread for another reason, too:  I need a more powerful server environment than my current i7-6700k and while my audio room gets built I can do something hardware-wise to prepare to enjoy HQPlayer 4.

 

You opened this thread to ask a question about your server hardware that deserves being answered.  Short answer, I point blank asked Miska about hardware and his reply was EC+512 is at least a year or two from reality.  At least if your old machine did 512 with the older modulators nothing changed to impact that.  Quite telling, at the end of his response he made a reference to video game/simulator developers releasing products the market can't fully use for at least one product cycle and often more.  Spent all morning reflecting on the forum attempt to design and manufacture a custom audio only motherboard that proved too hard to make a reality.  

 

Before exploring technical software revisions to your server (I'm going to condense the following into a quote box to avoid a wall of text) I'm confident, if you are willing, a good OC will allow DSD128 using ASDM7EC modulator for a very minimal hardware upgrade cost.  So you can determine for yourself if it matches or betters non-EC 512 until such point in the distant future upgrading is realistic.  To be able to answer your question means inquiring how prepared the current server already is for the added strain.  Basically a pre-OC'ing checklist for any machine.  

 

14 hours ago, rando said:

Using a quad core processor (i7-6700k) and three gen old gpu (GTX960) both mounted on a still decent older mb.  Having a detailed picture of the physical build construction is step one.  Thermal paste has seriously changed into a space age concoction everyone should switch to using.  Also in revisiting your entire cooling system, it will pay larger dividends the bigger changes it would need to effect to go from low power and fanless to exploring in the opposite direction.  Possibility exists to upgrade fans on GTX 960 to ones with a better blade shape that run quieter and cool better at all speeds.  Finally, need to examine the refined power scheme you have going on to determine if it might be good to have a cheap test PSU to avoid wear on expensive parts during the lengthy period of making adjustments.  Boilerplate: check for bulging caps and all other signs of failure, heat warping, smells, etc.   ($10-$20 fans, probably own an ATX PSU) 

 

Next, searching for instances of custom BIOS for mb and gpu.  There will tons for the latter, but we're only interested in candidates from CUDA optimized work servers.  Flashing gpu BIOS is not necessary (Oh so many horror stories of bricked video cards!!).  Any custom motherboard BIOS ideally would deaden or wall off "features" to promote industrial software running intensive calculations with the least amount of interference.  IF something was found it would need to be vetted for HQP4 use and STABILITY!!!  Call these BIOS changes a decision that would need to be made early on which may not even exist in a credible form.  Or might harm SQ.  At least this was touched on for general awareness of those with the skills yet somehow unaware of the possibilities.  ($?, Might have to pay for custom BIOS)

 

Once sure hardware is now in a good place, or was taken care of long ago, we check what BIOS version we are (if it wasn't changed already) on and then go directly to the appropriate manufacturers support page for the motherboard.  Based on security and other needs make an informed decision to update or not.  New versions can allow supporting firmware updates and a rash of other useful stuff.  This comes after deciding against a custom BIOS because it becomes impossible to use older BIOS versions after some updates.  Once any BIOS changes are flashed into memory you might unplug the boot and all other drives so BIOS loads automatically.  Going to be spending a fair amount of time in here (probably doing research on another computer at the same time) unless you have a very good plan already that can be tested a few minutes later.  Obviously you will start working inward from global settings towards establishing a custom balancing of everything to make HQP4 sound and run better.  (-$ what your time is worth)

 

Next up is a cursory look at the various board and processor BIOS settings like SpeedStep, Performance mode, or anything else a new BIOS version could've changed without you knowing.  Save and reboot (this will become habitual), if no errors occur keep moving forwards.  No errors should have appeared yet from changing that type of stuff.  They might have been introduced in a new BIOS version (if loaded).  Chances are your mb has a second or third copy of BIOS you can access, but only take that bridge when you come to it.  This is a great time to start and maintain a list of values/settings/accepted groups of calculated figures you can return to and adjust off of.  Take small steps, be slow to abandon testing, and stop to fix instability before resuming afresh.   (-$ what your time is worth)

As an example let's say Ted decides to start the real work by looking at settings for RAM mounted in DIMM slots on his motherboard.  Changes here can very easily result in boot cycles.  Miska has never focused overly on RAM.  What has been mentioned can be checked off early to eliminate it as a potential cause of indecisive behaviors.  Also after being in storage, Ted said a few years, testing each stick individually (in BIOS and OS program) is also a logically sound idea.  Better to discover one needs to be replaced now than dealing with a futile attempt to chase down problems elsewhere in BIOS/software.  Effectively he's gaining a baseline to load calculations off (write them down!) and looking for odd spikes or drops.  His BIOS might do a great job already or require some work taming a design aimed towards hard core overclocking for gaming and benchmarking.  XMP doesn't always have well implemented stock settings to start with.  After finding a stable setting if RAM goes bad he now has something to check it and a new stick against/see where he went wrong/prove he didn't abuse it resulting in failure.   ($$?, possibly at least one stick of RAM)

 

If you are ready to jump into the deep end we can use your system as a reference point.  i7/i9/Extreme versions of both run even hotter when OC'd.  Fans are going to be necessary and rank in importance as follows; CPU, rear/top outtake, intake.  JTS gave a fairly good impression of the time consuming next steps.  Aside from the mass of detailed info that needs to be digested and diagnosing problems. 

 

Your 6700k would have to go all out in order to have a chance of success.  If that isn't your idea of fun we can follow wherever this conversation goes and try to kill a year or two looking at the horizon.  🕐

[rando]

Looked and the SGM Monaco is now the EVO. 

 

Given their adamant support of HQP I'm watching their next move closely.  If there was a better pre-built option for pre-EC HQP on the market I'd be surprised.

[ted_b]

I'm not really worried about fans per se (acoustic noise) as I'll be leaving the server out of the room, and using an NAA in the room.  That being said, I am not discounting that fan activity also can be detrimental due to vibration and electrical noise.  Also, I am not a pc tweaker, so squeezing the last drops out of the i7-6700k is not my idea of fun.  But that's just me.  This thread is not just about me. 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, rando said:

  Fans are going to be necessary and rank in importance as follows; CPU, rear/top outtake, intake. 

 

If we’re talking

PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2 ... it’s been mentioned the i7-9700K doesn’t need to be overclocked. Safe to assume the same for i9-9900K. 

 

The Airtop3 industrial fanless I linked earlier (case is good for 300W...) looks to be good.

 

As I mentioned earlier Streacom and HDPlex also offer 95W TDP fanless cases for those wanting to DIY for a bit less cost. So those are suitable for i7-9700K and i9-9900K  without overclocking.

 

So I wouldn’t say fans are necessary for PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2

 

Depends on the person / system setup if they need fanless (no audible noise) or happy to have fans away from the listening room.

 

[rando]

Two or three current chips can do EC whatever at 128 and lose steam somewhere inside 256.  Well established fact with or without fans.  

 

An i7-6700k, what that entire example revolved around, is going to have to bulk up and try real hard to use an EC modulator at 128.  He noted above this wasn't a fun experiment he'd like to endeavor upon.  I might see if someone's kid has an old 6700k gaming rig I can prove for myself what is possible on it. 

 

Otherwise back to the fun.

[BCRich]

15 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Yep that's not the i9-9900K, that's why I tagged Andrew and JR above.... Specifically so they can consider and share an idea of the price here, for those interested in an i9-9900K fanless build.

 

There are a couple fanless cases that can support 95W TDP... HDPlex and Streacom are a couple I know...

 

If you google Intel i9 Coffee Lake 8 Core Processor, it comes back with the 9900K. So maybe it is, that would be awesome as I have been considering the Sonic Transporter for some time now as a replacement for my modded 2012 Mac Mimi.

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, BCRich said:

If you google Intel i9 Coffee Lake 8 Core Processor, it comes back with the 9900K. So maybe it is,

 

I know someone who has one and it's not the i9-9900K...

 

That's why I tagged Andrew and JR... if enough people were interested I'm sure they could come up with something. As I mentioned before, 95W TDP fanless cases do exist - Streacom and HDPlex are a couple.