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ted_b

HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

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Jussi has produced new SDM modulators (known as EC modulators) in his newest HQPlayer version 4 releases.  The feedback on these VERY cpu-heavy modulators is nothing short of game-changing....for example folks are realizing they can only run much lower DSD bit rates (say DSD128 vs DSD512) and don't care...they sound better at 128 than the earlier ones at DSD512!

 

Anyway, the huge HQPlayer threads are getting bogged down in hardware discussions, being that folks are having a hard time finding the right combination of OS, cpu, and bios tweaks to get these things running without interruption.  So......

 

Let's discuss these issues here!  Please be specific about how you run them (what hardware and settings seem to make a difference), what OS and variant you are running, and any plain speaking bios and/or OS tweaks (turning off cores, overclocking, etc) you are using to get uninterrupted service. 

 

I am starting this thread for another reason, too:  I need a more powerful server environment than my current i7-6700k and while my audio room gets built I can do something hardware-wise to prepare to enjoy HQPlayer 4.  Thx

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OK. I will repeat my post from another forum thread.

My configuration allows me to successfully play PCM48-192 -> DSD256, ASDM7EC, poly-sinc-ext2

Roon server + HQPlayer Embedded 4.11.1 on Debian 10 (minimal install)

MB ASUS Prime H310I-Plus

CPU i5-9600K

RAM Hyperx HX426C15BK2/8

In the BIOS:

the parameter is set - "Sync All Cores"

"Intel(R) SpeedStep(tm)" - disabled

 


DSD DAC DSC2http://puredsd.ru

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Core I5 2500k overclocked to 4.6ghz can run 44.1k  poly-sync-ext2 ASDM7EC DSD128 (integer multiple) w/o CUDA. Have GTX970 & now updated drives to run CUDA. Should do DSD128 (48k) after offloading convolution to gpu

 

Running Windows 10 with all the bloated crapware running 😁

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Ubuntu Studio 18.X running HQP Desktop & Roon Core on i5 with 4 cores, sorry not sure other hardware specs.

 

I have been using the ASDM7+f512 modulars at DSD256 rate. All four CPU's running about 50%.

 

With the new EC modulators, I have to move down to DSD128 with the DSD5EC & ASDM5EC, CPU's running about 60 - 65%. With ASDM7EC, about 70 - 75% with no stuttering.

 

Tried DSD5EC at DSD256 rate but got lots of stuttering. CPU's around 80 - 85%.


Eric

 

Custom Linux server (Ubuntu Studio - Roon - HQ Player) > Sonore microRendu (HQP NAA) >

Buffalo-IIIsePro-28 > Hypex NC400 > Klipsch Forte III

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If I might interject. 

 

This subject gained speed due to @JTS mentioning a fairly standard tune of his i9-9900k video editing server resulted in considerably better results than those with very similar hardware were claiming.  Not wanting to go completely off topic, we quickly established the nature of changes he effected.  

 

Based on a very slim sample of respondents it was clear

7 hours ago, ted_b said:

the huge HQPlayer threads are getting bogged down in hardware discussions, being that folks are having a hard time finding the right combination of OS, cpu, and bios tweaks to get these things running without interruption.  So......

 

So a good place to start might be establishing a more in depth picture of what a fairly standard BIOS profile for a video editing server resembles that matches with the small snippet of details he provided.  (I can toss off some links or more direct info later.  Puget Systems articles would be a good place to dig around in the meantime.)

 

 

So far as I have seen, and I did just recheck, this is most informative description of Intel BIOS and other settings impacting HQP EC modulators for the better.  Before choosing a direction to move conversation forward it's probably good to reiterate what I mentioned in the HQP thread.  

 

4 hours ago, rando said:

There seems to be a sizeable group unaware of how to tune their gaming optimized mb's in general.  Without the strain of EC modulators making clear wasted potential. 

 

You could easily do serious harm if you don't know what you are in doing in BIOS or an ASUS/Gigabyte/etc desktop program.  There is a very specific balance that needs to be maintained and there can be a lot of testing after rechecking to assure stability if you starting pushing the envelope.  Establishing a set of terminology across manufacturer BIOS, tackling the utility and connection to other parts and the whole of each setting, and very importantly what if any gaming derived calculator or process is trustworthy or even relevant is going to be big and messy.  People are going to need to keep their cool and accept setbacks.  Or else I really doubt the mostly silent members who would hold the greatest impact on this being a fruitful endeavor will fail to appear.

 

Were there a pile of current top shelf consumer hardware at my disposal I'd have dug in and then reported back if largely unrecognized performance with certain chips or combinations of hardware were feasible.  The idea of putting a bunch of heads together with highly evolved HQP machines sounds very interesting.  Quite often an older processor will reveal a highly sought after quality that allows it to keep in the fight.  Until the six core 8000 series Intel were released it was possible to throttle the snot out of an i5-2400 system (similar to bolting a whole ton of parts on a bulletproof engine block) and get acceptable performance.  Anyways, I might revisit the idea of getting an Asus ROG Maximus XI Gene mATX with double-capacity DIMM if it looks like that might be a worthwhile experiment.  🥳

 

 

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Core i7-9700K. It seems to like EC modulators. 😀

 

It will easily upsample PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2. With any OS. Without a GPU. Without high CPU utilization. No overclocking or special settings or special cooling required. 


Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, WS2019 + AO => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP OS => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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17 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Core i7-9700K. It seems to like EC modulators. 😀

 

It will easily upsample PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2. With any OS. Without a GPU. Without high CPU utilization. No overclocking or special settings or special cooling required. 

What mobo?

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Just now, ted_b said:

What mobo?

 

I'm using the ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX (review), because it's the most highly regarded ITX board. 


Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, WS2019 + AO => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP OS => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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While I have HQPlayer, I've mothballed my servers in favor of using Roon on my Synology NAS.

 

Rather than have to set up a server again, I'm wondering if Miska has sample clips of any tracks employing EC modulator upsampled to say DSD128.

 

Hearing that compared with the original track would be a quick, easy way for me (and perhaps others) to get a sense of what the latest from HQPlayer sounds like.

 

Joel

 

 

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Getting confirmation dropouts while playing w/EC modulators were from repeated thermal throttling, among other worrisome oblique recognitions, make me cautious about relaying info.  The majority here are probably nearer the opposite end of the spectrum, ie weighing (or soon will be) 1% improvements out of impeccably detailed comprehension and looking for firmware updates to fix things further.

 

Back to that initial concern, heat management with active cooling.  Thermal paste and coolers (CPU & GPU) really need to be sorted out early and often(!) when you are at 80%-90% of TDP on +100w processors regularly.  Surface prep and awareness of paste conductivity!  So much more.  This really is a huge determinant, but we're in the software forum.  

 

@JTS overview hit a lot of key points.  Expand all that to encompass RAM (DIMM and the xGB inside video cards) as well as GPU processor and the full picture starts coming into view.  Restraint is a noble quality.  Meaning knowing well enough to leave options alone because in a vast number of cases they are... kludges to safe fail against gamers or provide for a dire need of some incessant bugger.  

 

Please anyone who has spent years streamlining these aspects of their fanless music pc.  Speak up.  Refinement is where the interesting individual solutions that will help here start popping up.  That and willingness to try turning your Threadripper into a middling horsepower chip like @Hammer  Who grasped the spirit of experimenting in directions you might not like learning from.

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13 minutes ago, rando said:

The majority here are probably nearer the opposite end of the spectrum, ie weighing (or soon will be) 1% improvements out of impeccably detailed comprehension and looking for firmware updates to fix things further.

Rando, your point here is over my head...sorry.  I am not getting it.  All I know is that "the majority HERE", on this thread, are hopefully either relaying their real life experiences with setting up an HQPlayer EC-capable server, or asking questions about same.  Whether they are also dealing with "impeccably detailed comprehension" (?) or looking for firmware fixes is, well, irrelevant to this...I think.  You say "restraint is a noble quality".  Um, ok.  Not sure, again, what that has to do with this thread.  Sorry if I'm being too thick.

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In my situation, my 6700k is running on WinServer 2019 Core with Audiophile Optimizer 3.0. Overclocking is off! so is other Bios speed up settings. I find the music more serene and very very low on digital sound.

Of course if to run EC modulators on the 6700k requires turbo and other speed up/multicore modes, I am willing to try.

But fan noise I have an issue with as the server is within 6 feet of my HP listening position. Abyss AB1266 and HD800's are pretty open to external noises. I can hear the incessant hum of my AC compressor but I set this to ECON and higher temps say 26deg C and it only comes in an odd intervals.

Running the 6700k at 70-80 CPU utilisation rate invariably equals more fan noise. There may be gains to the HQplayer 4.0 SQ, but I have gained a lot on using resistors to detune all the fans in my PC, moving the additional fans onto a separate fan header etc and using fan power filters.

A bit hesitant to reverse direction. 

Eventually the 6700k (3 years coming on) will be obsolete. So biting the bullet with a 9900k and 2080 Super may be the way to get silent HQPlayer 4.0 server up and running without incessant fan noise.

Stressing the PSU (i use the supremely low distortion Corsair RMX550 - 8mv at the 200watt setting - its fan does not run) with this Turbo/speed up mode may not be optimal. I think i will have to swop in my Corsair HK850 in this case. Ummh... decisions, decisions.

Will try it this weekend. 

 

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Effectively I was buoying up the tech sense of members on AS "the majority HERE" while cautioning there can be risks tinkering with BIOS and/or settings.  What is vague or confusing was aimed at not alienating those who'd benefit from clicking around the linked articles page.  Multiple members have related really giving thermal protection a thorough drubbing in the main HQP threads.

 

If not being aware of poor stock settings is problematic.  Advising restraint above all else has been central to what JTS and I want to get across when beginning fixing them.  Small steps, slow and attentive, stability!  

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, ted_b said:

folks are having a hard time finding the right combination of OS, cpu, and bios tweaks

 

13 hours ago, ted_b said:

Please be specific about how you run them (what hardware and settings seem to make a difference), what OS and variant you are running, and any plain speaking bios and/or OS tweaks (turning off cores, overclocking, etc)

 

@ted_b  You know more than you are letting on.  Why the Monaco server' gaming motherboard required commissioning a custom BIOS for example.  This topic is either bumping against that ceiling or hardly aware of it from far below.  Suggest another means of expressing "impeccably detailed comprehension" that makes sense if that one bothers you.  

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24 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

Eventually the 6700k (3 years coming on) will be obsolete. So biting the bullet with a 9900k and 2080 Super may be the way to get silent HQPlayer 4.0 server up and running without incessant fan noise.

 

I don't see the point in the 9900k for HQP. The 9700K will run every modulator with ease, costs less and runs cooler.


Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, WS2019 + AO => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP OS => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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Thanks Ted, for this thread to focus on what clearly seems a major sonic step-up from Miska.

Hopefully, there will be rapid use of the info to enable off-the-shelf players from the likes of small green computer etc - for those of us who don’t tinker much with hardware et al.


elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>macmini (16gb ram-ssd-js2 psu-mmk)[hd(naq psu)]>netgear gs105 switch[clones psu])>ghent js ethernet>ultraRendu(js-2)>uspbc>iso regen(lps-1/naq psu)>curious link>rme adi-2 dac>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2xnaq12” passive subs.

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I can play 44.1-192k -> constant DSD256 11.2896Mhz with polysinc-xtr-2s & ext2 

OS: Windows Server 2019/Power plan: perfomance mode,  unusing services killed(DiagTrack, Print Spool et)

i5-8600T ( all cores in Turbo Boost 3.5Ghz)

Palit GTX 1050Ti

3200Mhz CL14 RAM

BIOS:  diable C-States , Virtualisation disabled

HQP Setting: Buffer 100-250mS, Multicore : Auto

I try this configuration with Ubuntu Server 18.04  HQP E and it shutter.

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HQPlayer Embedded

  • Ubuntu Server 18.04.2 LTS (4.18.0-25-generic)
  • MB GA-Z270-HD3P
  • CPU i7-7700K (overclocked at 5GHz)
  • 8GB RAM
  • without CUDA
  1. poly-sinc-ext2 + ASDM7EC + convolution ON: PCM 44,1 to 352,8kHz ---> SDM256 OK
  2. poly-sinc-short-mp[lp] + ASDM7EC + convolution ON: PCM 44,1 to 352,8kHz ---> SDM256 OK
  3. poly-sinc-xtr-mp[lp]-2s + ASDM7EC + convolution ON: PCM 44,1 to 352,8kHz ---> SDM256 OK

Developer of HQPDcontrol.

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1 hour ago, kelvinwsy said:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-9900K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-9700K/4028vs4030

I find from the above they run at the same TDP but the 9900k is 32-38% faster on Multicore Integer and Floating Point Computation speed. And it is only abouit 130USD higher in price. Might as well go to the 8 core 16 thread 9900k

 

When it comes to HQP, there's nothing the 9900K can do that the 9700k can't. When it's time to upgrade for EC DSD512, they'll both be paperweights.


Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, WS2019 + AO => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP OS => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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9 hours ago, k6davis said:

Core i7-9700K. It seems to like EC modulators. 😀

 

It will easily upsample PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2. With any OS. Without a GPU. Without high CPU utilization. No overclocking or special settings or special cooling required. 

 

So the i7-9700 (non-K) should be fine then, if overclocking the i7-9700K is not required?

 

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7 hours ago, JTS said:

In any event, I think for a chip like the 9900k, allowing all the cores to operate simultaneously without any time limit at 4.7 or 4.8 makes a huge increase in performance over what the original spec allows. My overclock is a gentle one by many standards, but it is enough to give me the performance boost and stability I want.

 

Can your i9-9900K actually do PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2, without overclocking?

 

Or you haven't tried because you need your machine overclocked for your work?

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On 8/4/2019 at 11:01 PM, k6davis said:

 

Actually, I'm not sure about that. 'K' basically means you can overclock the processor. The i7-9700K can do full EC DSD256 without overclocking, so the non-'K' variant should be able to as well.

 

It didn't cost much more to have the 'K', so I went for it anyway.

 

Isn't the "base" frequency of the 'K' variants higher?

 

In the case of i7-9700 vs 9700K its 3.00 vs 3.60 GHz base ?

 

This higher base frequency doesn't make a difference?

 

So if you went for the i7-9700 instead of 'K', there is a chance it wouldn't do what you can do now?

 

 

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