esldude Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Were he less dense he'd have hints already. Sonic77 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, DonaldT2109 said: And this The Computer Audiophile character seems to think that stealing from the gullible is ok (aha, no wonder he does, I have just found his connection with Audioquest) That would also explain his siding with the 'Golden Ears' brigade, (must keep your customers believing). . This is comedy gold. Please let me know where you “found” this connection with AudioQuest. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, esldude said: Were he less dense he'd have hints already. Dennis The sad thing is that he presented his case so badly here, without taking any notice of what many others told him, that he and his friends may end up getting their fingers burned and their wallets emptied if they lose their action in the U.K. They may even end up having to pay damages to the company, that if he is correct, deserves to be exposed and put out of business ? Alex esldude 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post Sonic77 Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 Imploded like a cheap usb cable. esldude and Albrecht 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 where to spend my money in a system ====> speakers likely troll tho daverich4 and esldude 1 1 Link to comment
Tintinabulum Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 This site is also very effective for ego enhancement for some, less to do with hifi, more of a means to an end. Link to comment
marce Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 10 hours ago, sandyk said: More Elitist BS from you. Consumers , and that includes Audiophiles, do NOT need to know the ins and outs of the design process in the products they purchase. Consumers have a right to expect that they are paying for a competently designed product. Why don;t you read my posts instead of just a Pavlovian reaction to everything I write. I have been saying all along that these problems are solvable and in other areas of electronics they are solved... Ralf11 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 52 minutes ago, marce said: Why don;t you read my posts instead of just a Pavlovian reaction to everything I write. I have been saying all along that these problems are solvable and in other areas of electronics they are solved... When you stop telling NON technical , or semi technical people to read textbooks such as from Henry Ott etc. that they have no interest in reading, let alone properly understanding, I will take you more seriously. They may be of interest to other qualified members, and are perhaps already in their textbook collection , but Audiophiles in general do not need to know these design considerations, just that the product they purchased was competently designed. Besides which , you would need to pay well in excess of $100 to purchase a copy that you are never likely to read or peruse again unless you are an E.E. Albrecht 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
RickyV Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 😳 unbelievable what a character 😳 Ralf11 1 Meitner ma1 v2 dac, Sovereign preamp and power amp, DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator. Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution. Under development: NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz. Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2 Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 DonaldT2019 is the epitome of being one's own worst enemy. Blackmorec, kumakuma, The Computer Audiophile and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Popular Post marce Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, sandyk said: When you stop telling NON technical , or semi technical people to read textbooks such as from Henry Ott etc. that they have no interest in reading, let alone properly understanding, I will take you more seriously. They may be of interest to other qualified members, and are perhaps already in their textbook collection , but Audiophiles in general do not need to know these design considerations, just that the product they purchased was competently designed. Besides which , you would need to pay well in excess of $100 to purchase a copy that you are never likely to read or peruse again unless you are an E.E. Then you stop pointing people to information, its not up to you to tell me to stop posting information that may benefit people, if people want to read it and learn then its there choice. Stop acting like the Victor Meldrew of the forum and telling me what I can and can't post. Ralf11, kumakuma and The Computer Audiophile 2 1 Link to comment
tapatrick Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, marce said: Victor Meldrew... Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Tintinabulum said: This site is also very effective for ego enhancement for some, less to do with hifi, more of a means to an end. Whatever it takes for you I guess. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post John Dyson Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Allan F said: I can't answer for them, but I have heard clear audible differences between USB cables based on many years of experience with critical listening. At the same time, I am not influenced by the naysayers who insist that bits are bits and there can be no audible difference. If you can't hear a difference, that's just fine. Then simply don't spend money on better USB cables. But, please, stop trying to convert and/or convince those who do hear differences and are happy with both their choice and expenditure. We have neither the desire nor the obligation to prove anything to you. This topic has been thrashed to death for years on this site and has no need for a newbie resurrecting it. Even though I agree with everything that you are saying, and I am definitely sure (with knowledge and expertise) that there are things that just cannot happen based upon differences in USB cables, there can definitely be certain kinds of analog signal quality differences when changing between cables. There are various kinds of failings or design issues in a system, and one of them (which I often overlook) is poor interface design and noise infiltration. When a change in USB cable (properly selected by manufacturers info) makes a difference, it is definitely due primarily to poor electronics design or extreme environmental noise.... PERIOD. Things like 'soundscape' or whatever descriptive term about the imaging, frequency response, etc just cannot change when a properly selected (by even inaccurate manufacturers specs) cable is changed to another properly selected cable. Assuming no nearby extreme EMI events, extreme power problems, etc when such changes make a difference, the problem is definitely releated to 1) poor hardware design, 2) consistently poor cable design, or very unlikely 3) inadequate standards specification. Even if there is a change, the change in sound will be related to noise, the effects of noise, etc. In the extreme case, a poor quality cable along with poorly designed hardware that perfectly depends on capabilities missing in that poor quality cables -- then the system might work so poorly as to be intermittent. None of this USB/Ethernet/etc cable stuff is rocket science (and definitely not brain surgery.) Almost everything in the audiophile world is NOT high-tech. If you want to look for something that is closer to high tech, think about the cell system infrastructure, and all of the very high spec components needed -- that stuff requires serious expertise. The audiophile consumer is being swindled, but they seem to enjoy and embrace it... The problem with audiophile equipment is not always incompetent engineering (even though that seems to happen fairly often), it is more often caused by bean-counter controlled design constraints. If manufacturers hobble the quality of the cables, and hobble the quality of hardware (maybe keeping boards as single sided, or maybe just double sided -- that kind of thing, or maybe using jellybean parts and trying to select ones way out of quality problems --garbage), then it just might be difficult to maintain quality. That hobbling of quality, focusing on profit only, or playing solely the boutique game (when truly standards compliant, responsibly designed industrial quality is better anyway), will produce the need or desire to 'tweak or find the correct cable' syndrome. Of all things, good quality cables, interfaces, and board layouts are NOT rocket science, but simply require compentent designers, and consumers who are intolerant of junk. Noise isolation and isolation from transient errors in data transport are well known disciplines. However, when a HW hacker tries to do the work of an actual adult engineer, or if a bean counter tries to play 'engineering decision maker', then consumers will be misled and effectively swindled. John crenca, Albrecht and Don Hills 2 1 Link to comment
Popular Post charlesphoto Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 hours ago, Sonic77 said: Imploded like a cheap usb cable. No certification for DonaldT - too far out of spec! Sonic77, The Computer Audiophile, esldude and 1 other 1 3 SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
charlesphoto Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 hours ago, sandyk said: Dennis The sad thing is that he presented his case so badly here, without taking any notice of what many others told him, that he and his friends may end up getting their fingers burned and their wallets emptied if they lose their action in the U.K. They may even end up having to pay damages to the company, that if he is correct, deserves to be exposed and put out of business ? Alex My parents dealt with the likes of him at their old country property. The new neighbors who bought the land next door, got all bent out of shape over the fact that the survey at the top was off by about a 2 X 20 foot strip, and my folks had accidentally built 15 years earlier their water tanks over it. Really a nothing burger, and my parents offered to settle for pro-rate (about $12k I believe) as they really didn't want to move these water tanks and it was obviously an unused spot beyond that on the corner of the property. Easily dealt with in a neighborly way. Long story short, these people wouldn't settle, and at the end of the day they lost, and lost probably about $45k in lawyers fees, surveyors, air photography, etc. (My folks about $10- 15K sadly). This was before the people had even built anyhting- by the time my parents sold four years later (in large part due to these people) they still hadn't built anything beyond plopping down an ugly septic that was an eyesore. This is beautiful, west facing San Juan Island sea side, but nothing could make these people happy. Nice neighbors to have in paradise, let me tell you. All to prove a worthless point over a grandfathered mistake. The Computer Audiophile 1 SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
Kimo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 56 minutes ago, John Dyson said: Even though I agree with everything that you are saying, and I am definitely sure (with knowledge and expertise) that there are things that just cannot happen based upon differences in USB cables, there can definitely be certain kinds of analog signal quality differences when changing between cables. There are various kinds of failings or design issues in a system, and one of them (which I often overlook) is poor interface design and noise infiltration. When a change in USB cable (properly selected by manufacturers info) makes a difference, it is definitely due primarily to poor electronics design or extreme environmental noise.... PERIOD. Things like 'soundscape' or whatever descriptive term about the imaging, frequency response, etc just cannot change when a properly selected (by even inaccurate manufacturers specs) cable is changed to another properly selected cable. Assuming no nearby extreme EMI events, extreme power problems, etc when such changes make a difference, the problem is definitely releated to 1) poor hardware design, 2) consistently poor cable design, or very unlikely 3) inadequate standards specification. Even if there is a change, the change in sound will be related to noise, the effects of noise, etc. In the extreme case, a poor quality cable along with poorly designed hardware that perfectly depends on capabilities missing in that poor quality cables -- then the system might work so poorly as to be intermittent. None of this USB/Ethernet/etc cable stuff is rocket science (and definitely not brain surgery.) Almost everything in the audiophile world is NOT high-tech. If you want to look for something that is closer to high tech, think about the cell system infrastructure, and all of the very high spec components needed -- that stuff requires serious expertise. The audiophile consumer is being swindled, but they seem to enjoy and embrace it... The problem with audiophile equipment is not always incompetent engineering (even though that seems to happen fairly often), it is more often caused by bean-counter controlled design constraints. If manufacturers hobble the quality of the cables, and hobble the quality of hardware (maybe keeping boards as single sided, or maybe just double sided -- that kind of thing, or maybe using jellybean parts and trying to select ones way out of quality problems --garbage), then it just might be difficult to maintain quality. That hobbling of quality, focusing on profit only, or playing solely the boutique game (when truly standards compliant, responsibly designed industrial quality is better anyway), will produce the need or desire to 'tweak or find the correct cable' syndrome. Of all things, good quality cables, interfaces, and board layouts are NOT rocket science, but simply require compentent designers, and consumers who are intolerant of junk. Noise isolation and isolation from transient errors in data transport are well known disciplines. However, when a HW hacker tries to do the work of an actual adult engineer, or if a bean counter tries to play 'engineering decision maker', then consumers will be misled and effectively swindled. John I have actually heard this happen, or not happen, with spdif. I upgraded my DAC within the same manufacturer line, and now can't really notice a difference between the Apogee and the Belden, whereas with the previous DAC the two cables provided slightly different results. I also noticed this with my old Gill Audio DAC. It does make me wonder if I should be using that interface instead of USB. Perhaps, it is better than going into the Amanero 383 board. I don't have multiple USB cables to compare. It also seems like the high end might frown upon this result. Something like, "the DAC lacks the transparency to display the subtle differences of cable design." sandyk 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Blackmorec Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 The are 2 ways to make improvements in hi-fi 1. Obtain more detail and accuracy from the source material i.e record grooves, magnetic tape, computer bits or 2. Remove noise, distortions and resolution losses that mask and hide detail (analog) or interferences that negatively impact detail recovery (digital). Both 1 & 2 will give improved sound quality and both sound similar so its only possible to differentiate by looking at what was done to achieve the improvement. Improving a turntable, cartridge, CD transport, tape deck, DAC etc will recover more detail, more accurately (1). Improving power supplies, amplifiers, speakers, cables, vibration control, mains treatments etc will unmask and reveal hidden detail in line with 2. When a USB cable gives a deeper, wider soundstage or more luscious midrange....it actually doesn’t. What is does is to not allow ingress to the interferences that might otherwise damage the soundstage and midrange perception elsewhere in the system (usually the DAC). The improvements aren’t added....they’re already there, in the bit stream, just masked. Both soundstage perception and midrange judgements happen in the head and can result from minuscule changes in the final analog signal, so it doesn’t take much to introduce disturbances that impair a system’s performance. All systems are impaired...some a little and some a lot. There is no way to add detail that wasn’t extracted from the source...it is however possible to unmask detail that was previously buried in noise or unresolved due to problems later in the processing chain. So in summary, an ‘improved’ USB cable increases SQ indirectly by preventing the ingress of interference that negatively affects SQ later in the chain sandyk, fas42, elcorso and 5 others 4 3 1 Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 11 hours ago, Tintinabulum said: This site is also very effective for ego enhancement for some... No doubt the reason you post here, no? 🙂 The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
Popular Post crenca Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, John Dyson said: The audiophile consumer is being swindled, but they seem to enjoy and embrace it... Well stated. Don Hills and Ralf11 2 Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math! Link to comment
elcorso Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 hours ago, John Dyson said: Even though I agree with everything that you are saying, and I am definitely sure (with knowledge and expertise) that there are things that just cannot happen based upon differences in USB cables, there can definitely be certain kinds of analog signal quality differences when changing between cables. There are various kinds of failings or design issues in a system, and one of them (which I often overlook) is poor interface design and noise infiltration. When a change in USB cable (properly selected by manufacturers info) makes a difference, it is definitely due primarily to poor electronics design or extreme environmental noise.... PERIOD. Things like 'soundscape' or whatever descriptive term about the imaging, frequency response, etc just cannot change when a properly selected (by even inaccurate manufacturers specs) cable is changed to another properly selected cable. Assuming no nearby extreme EMI events, extreme power problems, etc when such changes make a difference, the problem is definitely releated to 1) poor hardware design, 2) consistently poor cable design, or very unlikely 3) inadequate standards specification. Even if there is a change, the change in sound will be related to noise, the effects of noise, etc. In the extreme case, a poor quality cable along with poorly designed hardware that perfectly depends on capabilities missing in that poor quality cables -- then the system might work so poorly as to be intermittent. None of this USB/Ethernet/etc cable stuff is rocket science (and definitely not brain surgery.) Almost everything in the audiophile world is NOT high-tech. If you want to look for something that is closer to high tech, think about the cell system infrastructure, and all of the very high spec components needed -- that stuff requires serious expertise. The audiophile consumer is being swindled, but they seem to enjoy and embrace it... The problem with audiophile equipment is not always incompetent engineering (even though that seems to happen fairly often), it is more often caused by bean-counter controlled design constraints. If manufacturers hobble the quality of the cables, and hobble the quality of hardware (maybe keeping boards as single sided, or maybe just double sided -- that kind of thing, or maybe using jellybean parts and trying to select ones way out of quality problems --garbage), then it just might be difficult to maintain quality. That hobbling of quality, focusing on profit only, or playing solely the boutique game (when truly standards compliant, responsibly designed industrial quality is better anyway), will produce the need or desire to 'tweak or find the correct cable' syndrome. Of all things, good quality cables, interfaces, and board layouts are NOT rocket science, but simply require compentent designers, and consumers who are intolerant of junk. Noise isolation and isolation from transient errors in data transport are well known disciplines. However, when a HW hacker tries to do the work of an actual adult engineer, or if a bean counter tries to play 'engineering decision maker', then consumers will be misled and effectively swindled. John Precisely and speaking of noise ... There are not always easy solutions to implement ! Why then do we make so much noise when some USB cable approaches zero noise ? Bad circuit designs and electronic parts ? There is a lot too ! Of course, the audio industry has crickets, but mention me one industry in which there are no crickets. From the pharmaceutical to ... Please mention it. But I would call them illusions sellers 😂 From the other side some people are not interested, or simply they love noise because they are accustomed, even if they finish with headache after a short listening session... Those aren't audiophiles, but a few, deaf audiophiles... Roch sandyk 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Albrecht Posted October 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, elcorso said: Precisely and speaking of noise ... There are not always easy solutions to implement ! Why then do we make so much noise when some USB cable approaches zero noise ? Bad circuit designs and electronic parts ? There is a lot too ! Of course, the audio industry has crickets, but mention me one industry in which there are no crickets. From the pharmaceutical to ... Please mention it. Roch It takes very little research, and there is more than ample evidence that the high-end audio industry likely has the most efficacious products, and has much smaller mark-ups of most any other industry. In addition, - there is also ample evidence to support the fact(s) that the vast majority of high performance audio companies are small, "mom and pop" orgs that have nothing resembling "bean counters." But hey, - the trolls are gonna troll... and reason is not really their forte. marce and esldude 2 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 smaller mark-ups - hahahahahha mansr 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, Albrecht said: much smaller mark-ups of most any other industry 8 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: smaller mark-ups - hahahahahha I'd really like to see information about other niche industries that build on very small scales at the highest quality. I honestly don't know, if apples to apples comparisons were done, which one of you is correct. P.S. The Rolls Royce Sweptail is $13,000,000. Small scale, built to the highest standards. Markup? not sure. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Albrecht Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: smaller mark-ups - hahahahahha Yes....Hahahahaa.... Thank you for reinforcing my statement. Link to comment
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