LessLoss "Laminar Flow" SD player (over $91k USD)

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

I did not know Audiophile Style had a comedy forum! 🤠

[analogue]

Surprised that such an $$$ item had not caught greater attention. I went to archive.org, and it seems that first the appearance of the proposed Laminar Flow is late 2011:

https://web.archive.org/web/20111204052101/https://www.lessloss.com/laminar-streamer-sd-player-p-207.html

 

You can follow the timeline in Archive, and watch how the prototype product evolves. Quite a lot of pics and videos are provided. 

I don't think the $91k was established until ~ 2017 (??) when the product began shipping (??)

 

I suggest LL send CA a review sample. For grins and giggles, it'd be interesting to see how it compares against other thumb-drive players ... like that cheap QLS or the high-end Bryston BDP-3.

[Norton]

8 hours ago, analogue said:

For grins and giggles, it'd be interesting to see how it compares against other thumb-drive players ...

I’d suggest a head to head on SQ with this: https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/info/upl16. also custom built in the EU... for $363 

 

My favourite bit from LessLoss  pricing: “ 2+ Units: 5% off   4+ Units: 10% off ”

[RickyV]

20 minutes ago, Norton said:

I’d suggest a head to head on SQ with this: https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/info/upl16. also custom built in the EU... for $363 

 

 

Yep me too.

[analogue]

So what are the most $$$ digital transports ever? The Zanden CD transport (debut 2003) was  $27,970 USD (2005). I think it's still in production. 

[mansr]

20 minutes ago, analogue said:

So what are the most $$$ digital transports ever? The Zanden CD transport (debut 2003) was  $27,970 USD (2005). I think it's still in production. 

That's nothing. The dCS Vivaldi CD transport costs $41,999.

[seeteeyou]

£96,000 for Audio Note CDT Six/Force

 

https://www.audionote.co.uk/cdt-six-force

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/3e7c3b_2ac493f38f75441f95a852ffa4c859dc.pdf#page=7

 

Here's one for $37,950

 

https://www.thememoryplayer.net/the-digital-transport-

 

Though anyone could take a chance with €13K

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133125612075

 

Esoteric Grandioso P1X alone is $50K

 

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/AXPONA_2019/Weaver/page4.htm

Quote

With this system, I heard the most refined, articulate, resolving, transparent, harmonically complete, spatially accurate, natural sounding digital playback, complete with texture, bloom, and timbral accuracy, in a manner that set a new personal milestone for me. This system rendered the most amazing sense of space, complex tonal density, and air in a way that I have rarely, if ever, heard from a digital rig. In short, my time in the Esoteric room here at AXPONA proved to be the most engagingly musical digital playback I have had the pleasure to experience.

 

For some reasons the markup seemed to be quite significant

 

https://www.esoteric-highend.eu/grandioso-p1x-super-audio-cd-transport/

https://www.cdrinfo.com/d7/content/esoteric-grandioso-p1x-and-d1x-models-launch-march

Quote

Grandioso P1X - Suggested retail price 3,500,000 yen ($31, 670)

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

The cost of the drive mechanisms alone is several thousand dollars each (manufacturers’ cost). Plus, many manufacturers keep a a second mechanism on hand for a large percentage of units sold, for future issues and customer support. 

 

Given normal BOM markup, one can see how the price of a transport creeps up. 

[marce]

boutique products, the price often has no relationship to the selling price... All helps promote GUTB's view of audio😀

[mansr]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The cost of the drive mechanisms alone is several thousand dollars each

And yet a DVD-ROM drive can be had for under $10 retail.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

And yet a DVD-ROM drive can be had for under $10 retail.

A Yugo will get one to the grocery store as will a Ferrari. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

The issue with drive mechanisms is SACD support. The $10 version won't have it. 

[mansr]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

A Yugo will get one to the grocery store as will a Ferrari. 

Do the groceries taste better when transported in a Ferrari?

[mansr]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

The issue with drive mechanisms is SACD support. The $10 version won't have it. 

The issue with SACD is onerous licensing conditions driving up cost.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, mansr said:

The issue with SACD is onerous licensing conditions driving up cost.

Still, after the patents have run out?

[botrytis]

The issue is there is a chip needed for the drives that was made by Sony and they aren't making those chips any more. Some of the drive manufacturers have stored a stock of these chips but eventually there will be no more of these chips out there.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Still, after the patents have run out?

It's about crypto keys, not patents. Regardless, many SACD players retail for a few hundred dollars. The rest is just bling.

[barrows]

Shamless plug:  Sonore Rendu Ethernet Renderers are now able to play directly from the onboard SD card as well, so anyone with a Sonore Rendu series product also has an SD Card player for the price of a larger SD card.  Just a heads up for folks interested in SD Card based playback...

[Melvin]

4 minutes ago, barrows said:

Shamless plug:  Sonore Rendu Ethernet Renderers are now able to play directly from the onboard SD card as well, so anyone with a Sonore Rendu series product also has an SD Card player for the price of a larger SD card.  Just a heads up for folks interested in SD Card based playback...

 

Interesting development. Thanks for sharing.

[Doak]

5 minutes ago, barrows said:

“so anyone with a Sonore Rendu series product also has an SD Card player for the price of a larger SD card.  Just a heads up for folks interested in SD Card based playback...”

Great move on Sonare’s part IMO.

As you know I am very interested in direct play from SD card.

Question: It appears that the card used can be purchased elsewhere for far less (hundreds of $$) than your asking price. More info please.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, Doak said:

Great move on Sonare’s part IMO.

As you know I am very interested in direct play from SD card.

Question: It appears that the card used can be purchased elsewhere for far less (hundreds of $$) than your asking price. More info please.

 

They charge more because it includes an operating system and support and it’s a business that needs to make money. 

[Doak]

8 minutes ago, Doak said:

Great move on Sonare’s part IMO.

As you know I am very interested in direct play from SD card.

Question: It appears that the card used can be purchased elsewhere for far less (hundreds of $$) than your asking price. More info please.

 

Understood Chris, but IMO that is not what barrows stated. 

Oh well,, will let it go. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, Doak said:

Understood Chris, but IMO that is not what barrows stated. 

Oh well,, will let it go. 

I’m sure @vortecjr can answer much better than me 😁

[barrows]

Hi guys, I did not mean to hijack the LessLoss discussion on this thread, sorry.  I would suggest that for questions about using Rendu products as SD card players please go to the dedicated thread:

 

 

[seeteeyou]

Maybe markup wasn't the right word then?

 

MSRP is $50K in US, while it's more like $33K in Japan at the moment. Does it sound like some kinda healthy margin or what? You've got like 3 years of warranty (that ain't transferable but fairly understandable) and that's pretty much it

 

http://www.esoteric-usa.com/warranty.php

 

And then it's gonna cost $2K for a trip back to Japan plus hundreds of dollars for everything else, their repair work actually got contracted out as well

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/problem-with-esoteric-service

 

Everything in Europe was sold to Aqipa GmbH last year since Gibson got incredibly screwed, the future of TEAC (and Esoteric etc.) will depend on the outcome of their restructuring

 

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2018/10/23/nashville-gibson-guitar-company-names-jc-curleigh-its-new-ceo/1737836002/

Quote

But when guitar sales began to decline, Gibson ventured from manufacturing musical instruments to attempts at becoming a musical lifestyle brand. Gibson took on debt to buy electronics companies. But as its overall revenue grew, its profit margin shrunk.

 

Supposedly they're facing as much as half a billion dollars in debt while the reorganization allowed the company to wipe out hundreds of million dollars worth of debt.

 

Somehow both numbers from 2018 and 2019 seemed to be the same,  therefore Gibson Holdings Inc was still considered TEAC's parent company as we're getting that 54.84% number twice in a row

 

https://www.teac.co.jp/downloads/corporate/2018/20180628_clhoaj7q.pdf

 

https://www.teac.co.jp/downloads/corporate/2019/20190627_flgkm25q.pdf

 

It's almost like business as usual once they've got "bailed out" by KKR, and then brand spankin' new CEO actually tried to sue their pants off

 

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/gibson-sues-dean-guitar/

 

With that kinda track record, are you still planning to blow 50 grand or what?