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The ultimate Power Supply Units for music servers (and other devices for cleaner power source)

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9 hours ago, sandyk said:

Unless I missed it,:$ neither do they give any graphs for output impedance with frequency.

Hi

 

Not sure that manufacturers should claim that this regulator "good for audio", but you can find some expensive "audio grade capacitors"

 

For the output impedance - check link below
https://www.belleson.com/comparenewzout.php

 

And finally -  performance of the regulator depends on the components around it., but i don't think you can find best possible option. 

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2 minutes ago, R1200CL said:


One of us must misunderstand each other 😀

 

If I parallel two LPS-1, at the maximum 7V. What is the best I can expect on the other side ?

 

Or did you mean 0,7 V ?

ok
Best if you can use 2 x LT3045A (1A) boards configured for 6VDC out 
LPS1 7V  -----    LT3045a 6V\_____________6V 2A
LPS1 7V  -----    LT3045a 6V/

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43 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Hi

 

Not sure that manufacturers should claim that this regulator "good for audio", but you can find some expensive "audio grade capacitors"

 

For the output impedance - check link below
https://www.belleson.com/comparenewzout.php

 

And finally -  performance of the regulator depends on the components around it., but i don't think you can find best possible option. 

 

The fact remains that quite a few constructors who have used the LT3045 with recommended type and value capacitors as in the Data sheets , report an increase in HF detail, and if another one is used in series, a further increase in HF detail is reported.

 The LT3045 needs some additional Audio grade capacitors for a balanced tonal presentation.

 With virtually every type of voltage regulator, the type and value of the capacitors, especially at the input always has some influence on how the voltage regulator will sound.


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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Alex, what type & size C's do you recommend for this application?

 

TIA!

 

Greg in Mississippi


2 systems including...

AC: Audio gear on DIY AC filters/PSAud P10/P300; misc gear on separate AC w/DIY AC filters

Analog: Well-Tempered Refs or U-Turn Orbit Plus->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Stand-alone Digital: Sony HAP Z1-ES, Oppo 870, Panasonic S47, SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked Digital: Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> switch + WiFi router as access point -> FMCs -> R-Pi/Allo Kali/Soekris DAM DAC, R-Pi/Allo Kali/HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, or R-Pi/Allo Kali/Mamboberry

Volume Control: SE Passive shunt, S&B TX102 TVC, K&K Balanced shunt, DIYHiFi AVC

Amps: dual mono'd Hypex NC400, EVS 500M B&0 IcePower, FirstOne

Speakers: Eminent Tech LFT-VIII, LFT-IV, or Gallo Ref 3A

Tuning: Various stands/vibration control, noise filters on digital power and Ethernet cables, audio cables MIT reg or Shotgun, ALL gear modified or DIY'd, MOST supplies linear or LPS-1s (DVD players & amps have SMPSs)

 

Everything Matters!

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1 hour ago, gstew said:

Alex, what type & size C's do you recommend for this application?

 

TIA!

 

Greg in Mississippi

Hi Greg

 I haven't taken the LT3045s too far in the Analogue area, but I would point out that they would almost certainly sound better when located close to the typical much larger filter capacitors immediately after a bridge rectifier. The main problem there though, is keeping the voltage across the LT3045 fairly low all the time. I would suggest that very Low ESR electros should not be used immediately after the Bridge Rectifiers in any Analogue PSU , with perhaps no lower ESR than say a 4,700 uF Panasonic FC.

In general, where you need a little more warmth you could try 2 similar value parallel capacitors there such as a Panasonic FC and an Elna for Audio. 

Even with Capacitance multipliers such as used in the Capacitance Multiplier section of a John Linsley Hood designed PSU add-on, even though the simulated capacitance my be as high as 2FARADS, you can STILL hear the differences between the types of capacitors used.

In fact, if you regulate down from internal +12V in a PC to +5V to power internal SSDs, (see attached) you can even hear the differences due to the types of capacitors used there with saved DIGITAL Audio files !!! This applies to the OS SSD as well

To take it even further, you can even SEE the differences with saved high res Music Videos.

I am able to demonstrate this to those who use something better than a typical Laptop , and use a decent Monitor.

 Kind Regards

Alex

Dual +5V PSU for 2 SSDs.jpg


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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Alex,


Thanks for this... and sorry for my slow response. 

 

I haven't used the LT304x regulators in analog-only circuits much either. My main use for them has been in mixed circuits (I consider anything that is generating or otherwise processing an I2S signal to be mixed, such as an isolator board, a reclocking board, or a DAC... which of course produces an analog output). There I mostly use boards purchased from poster OPC on DIYAudio (back when he was still selling boards) or MPAudio (back when he sold raw boards instead of just finished units). OPC's board are two sections of 4-paralleled LT3042, MPAudio's are either 2 sections of 3-paralleled LT3045 or a single section of 6-paralleled LT3045. 

 

All of these boards have positions for through-hole electrolytic caps before and after the regulator section. OPC listed caps from the KYB line of United ChemiCon in his BOM. I found they worked so well with his boards that I've adopted them as my go-to standard for this purpose (where I'm not dipping into my dwindling hoard of Black Gates). My experience with them is that AFTER they go through a moderatly-long break-in, they are fairly neutral (moreso than my experiences with the Elna Silmec and Panasonic FC, which may have been a-typical) with good dynamics (better than most of the Nichicon lines I've tried).

 

The ESR of the particular KYB's I generally use at the input of the board are a tiny bit lower than the Panasonic FC you specified. In some cases I'm feeding them from AC-connected raw DC supplies that use Jensen 4-pole caps after the rectifiers (sometimes a bridge, sometimes a center-tapped transformer with a 2-diode full-wave setup). I have looked for the ESR of those caps and haven't found it specified. So even though the literature suggests they are low-ESR, I doubt it if they won't print the value. 

 

In other cases, I'm using a 2-section board (either OPC's or MPAudio's) to parallel Uptone Audio's LPS-1/1.2's for higher current applications. Honestly, for those uses I did at one time have a current-matched pair of LPS-1's. Comparing using the 'twins' direct to the load versus paralleled through an OPC dual-section 4||LT3042 board, I preferred the latter. AND I find MPAudio's boards used in the same mannter generally produce better results than the OPC boards, I'm assuming due to the different regulator chip.

 

AND I've heard similar results with various caps in both mixed circuits and in fully digital circuits. Good to have that confirmed by someone I trust.

 

Many thanks!

 

Greg in Mississippi


2 systems including...

AC: Audio gear on DIY AC filters/PSAud P10/P300; misc gear on separate AC w/DIY AC filters

Analog: Well-Tempered Refs or U-Turn Orbit Plus->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Stand-alone Digital: Sony HAP Z1-ES, Oppo 870, Panasonic S47, SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked Digital: Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> switch + WiFi router as access point -> FMCs -> R-Pi/Allo Kali/Soekris DAM DAC, R-Pi/Allo Kali/HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro, or R-Pi/Allo Kali/Mamboberry

Volume Control: SE Passive shunt, S&B TX102 TVC, K&K Balanced shunt, DIYHiFi AVC

Amps: dual mono'd Hypex NC400, EVS 500M B&0 IcePower, FirstOne

Speakers: Eminent Tech LFT-VIII, LFT-IV, or Gallo Ref 3A

Tuning: Various stands/vibration control, noise filters on digital power and Ethernet cables, audio cables MIT reg or Shotgun, ALL gear modified or DIY'd, MOST supplies linear or LPS-1s (DVD players & amps have SMPSs)

 

Everything Matters!

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6 hours ago, gstew said:

The ESR of the particular KYB's I generally use at the input of the board are a tiny bit lower than the Panasonic FC

 

 Hi Greg

 Actually, I was going to try replacing a 4700uF FC with a Rubycon YXF in the JLH PSU add-on powering my 2 internal SSDs as it has a slightly higher ESR , but I appear to have used the last one from Ebay which is usually more affordable for me these days.

 In my case I can also fit instead a 6.3V 4700uF Panasonic FC which has a little higher ESR as lower voltage electros of the same type do.

 I have found that in this case , that the FC imparts a smidgin too much HF detail, which can even be seen with saved video, but will reduce a little after copying/moving the A or V file to an HDD or USB memory. A small amount of added HF detail can help with generational copies, or with conversion from flac to .wav as with high res downloads, although this isn't supposed to happen with Digital.¬¬

 

(in the JLH capacitance multiplier area there is only around 600mV across them)

So you know what I am talking about, I have attached a copy of the modified JLH schematic .

 

 Kind Regards

Alex

JLH PSU - revised drawing 2   8-1-2009  .jpg


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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Less accent on LOW ESR capacitors at the output voltage regulator may have seen it tonally equal the fabled Paul Hynes unit ?

That is an issue I also have with recent low noise voltage regulators such as the LT3045 series as typically implemented.


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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Can I ask generally, for those of you who have upgraded the power supplies for your music servers from SMPS to LPSU, what impact did that have? What was the scale of perceived improvement if there was any? Did any of you go through this process and fail to note any improvement?

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18 minutes ago, George Hincapie said:

 

How? They have to connect via ethernet in my case; how to isolate?

 

use an opto-isolator - some DACs have them built in too

 

^ assumes you need more isolation that the transformers in Ethernet already give you...


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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On 7/29/2019 at 12:21 AM, George Hincapie said:

Can I ask generally, for those of you who have upgraded the power supplies for your music servers from SMPS to LPSU, what impact did that have? What was the scale of perceived improvement if there was any? Did any of you go through this process and fail to note any improvement?

 

*Bump*

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On 7/29/2019 at 12:21 AM, George Hincapie said:

Can I ask generally, for those of you who have upgraded the power supplies for your music servers from SMPS to LPSU, what impact did that have? What was the scale of perceived improvement if there was any? Did any of you go through this process and fail to note any improvement?

 

*Bump again*

 

Come on guys; not a difficult question. I have two providers lined up, but I don't want to drop £1000 on a LPSU if it makes no difference. Your personal experiences please?

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Try asking the same question in the main thread " A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming "

where you will find the vast majority are using linear PSUs.

 That's not to say though, that you can't also vastly improve the supply rails of SMPS PSus with similar Linear voltage regulator techniques.


"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD,

you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist. - Cookie Marenco"

 

PROFILE UPDATED 18-06-2019

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1 hour ago, sandyk said:

Try asking the same question in the main thread " A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming "

where you will find the vast majority are using linear PSUs.

 That's not to say though, that you can't also vastly improve the supply rails of SMPS PSus with similar Linear voltage regulator techniques.

 

Don't the same people read this thread?

 

Will give it a try, thanks.

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2 hours ago, George Hincapie said:

 

*Bump again*

 

Come on guys; not a difficult question. I have two providers lined up, but I don't want to drop £1000 on a LPSU if it makes no difference. Your personal experiences please?

 

When I got my NUC 7i5 that runs Roon ROCK, I already had an HDPLEX 100 and a cheap 12V 6a zero zone LPS on hand. I powered the NUC with the 19v rail on the HDPLEX until I accidentally blew that rail, and now with the 12v Zerozone. Can't say I noticed a difference between the two, and I never even unwrapped the SMPS supplied so no baseline to compare. How's that for a non-answer? I would just consider whether you really need to spend 1k on the server power supply unless it will serve as an endpoint also - you might want to try a cheaper option and spend the $ elsewhere in your chain. 


SERVER CLOSET:NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK and OWC external 2.5" HD (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule>fiber (HDPLEX 100). Supra MD-06 power strip. {Office Circuit}

LIVING ROOM:Sonore opticalModule (LPS-1.2) {TV circuit} >Ghent Audio JSSG Cat 6a cable>Sonore microRendu 1.4> (Sonore UltraRendu>Ghent Neotech 7N solid JSSG DC cable) {20amp dedicated circuit) Uptone USPCB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 110 {both dedicated 20amp circuit}>Chord Rumor 2>Rega RX3’s.

OFFICE:TP Link MC110 optical bridge (iFi's - different office circuits)>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50’ (near field post mounted - sound amazing - one of the few  joys of working from the home basement). Cables: AQ Cinnamon RJ45, Meico RJ45, basic cat6, Naim stock AC cables with Wattgate or HifiKing Plugs. 

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37 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

When I got my NUC 7i5 that runs Roon ROCK, I already had an HDPLEX 100 and a cheap 12V 6a zero zone LPS on hand. I powered the NUC with the 19v rail on the HDPLEX until I accidentally blew that rail, and now with the 12v Zerozone. Can't say I noticed a difference between the two, and I never even unwrapped the SMPS supplied so no baseline to compare. How's that for a non-answer? I would just consider whether you really need to spend 1k on the server power supply unless it will serve as an endpoint also - you might want to try a cheaper option and spend the $ elsewhere in your chain. 

 

Well it's a response, so that's great! :)

 

My server feeds a Metrum Acoustics Ambre Roon EP via ethernet. My concern is that my configuration may mean I won't realise any improvement. If that's the truth, then fine; I can live with that. I'd rather not spend the money and then find out.

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1 hour ago, George Hincapie said:

 

Well it's a response, so that's great! :)

 

My server feeds a Metrum Acoustics Ambre Roon EP via ethernet. My concern is that my configuration may mean I won't realise any improvement. If that's the truth, then fine; I can live with that. I'd rather not spend the money and then find out.

 

in making decisions or setting priorities, i'd move from the endpoint backwards -- (1) optimize power on endpoint; (2) isolate the endpoint on the network; (3) optimized power on the server.


source:  intel nuc8i5 (audiolinux, roon core) > intel nuc6i5 (win10, ao, fidelizer pro, dirac live, roon) > schiit yggdrasil (gen 5, analog 2)
headphone rig:  bryston bha-1 > senn hd600
two-channel rig:  bryston bha-1 > parasound a21 > monitor audio gx100

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