Popular Post charlesphoto Posted July 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 14, 2019 I've switched out the connectors on a few Ghent cables and all were extremely well constructed (esp compared to my reconstruction). The 'no clue' comment was just in regards to Ghent cables, ok. I'm sure Concombre is well clued in in most other things... Le Concombre Masqué and luisma 1 1 SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
[email protected] Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 10 hours ago, R1200CL said: How much is the voltage drop over your boards ? 7/10V Impex Technology FZE Link to comment
[email protected] Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 9 hours ago, sandyk said: Unless I missed it, neither do they give any graphs for output impedance with frequency. Hi Not sure that manufacturers should claim that this regulator "good for audio", but you can find some expensive "audio grade capacitors" For the output impedance - check link belowhttps://www.belleson.com/comparenewzout.php And finally - performance of the regulator depends on the components around it., but i don't think you can find best possible option. Impex Technology FZE Link to comment
R1200CL Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, [email protected] said: 7/10V One of us must misunderstand each other 😀 If I parallel two LPS-1, at the maximum 7V. What is the best I can expect on the other side ? Or did you mean 0,7 V ? Link to comment
[email protected] Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, R1200CL said: One of us must misunderstand each other 😀 If I parallel two LPS-1, at the maximum 7V. What is the best I can expect on the other side ? Or did you mean 0,7 V ? ok Best if you can use 2 x LT3045A (1A) boards configured for 6VDC out LPS1 7V ----- LT3045a 6V\_____________6V 2A LPS1 7V ----- LT3045a 6V/ Impex Technology FZE Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, [email protected] said: Hi Not sure that manufacturers should claim that this regulator "good for audio", but you can find some expensive "audio grade capacitors" For the output impedance - check link belowhttps://www.belleson.com/comparenewzout.php And finally - performance of the regulator depends on the components around it., but i don't think you can find best possible option. The fact remains that quite a few constructors who have used the LT3045 with recommended type and value capacitors as in the Data sheets , report an increase in HF detail, and if another one is used in series, a further increase in HF detail is reported. The LT3045 needs some additional Audio grade capacitors for a balanced tonal presentation. With virtually every type of voltage regulator, the type and value of the capacitors, especially at the input always has some influence on how the voltage regulator will sound. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
gstew Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Alex, what type & size C's do you recommend for this application? TIA! Greg in Mississippi Everything Matters! 2 systems... Well-Tempered Refs->ET-2.5->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages Standalone digital Sony HAP Z1-ES or SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC Networked digital Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> EtherRegen -> USBBridge Sig -> Katana / Ian GB / Soerkis / Buffalo-IIIPro DACs Passive S&B TX102 TVC or ladder attenuators -> BHK-250 -> Eminent Tech LFT-VIII / IV / VI ALL gear modified / DIY'd; cables MIT; all supplies DIY’d or LPS-1.2s w/HUGE Ultracaps; Audio gear on DIY AC filters + PS Aud P15s; misc gear on separate AC w/filters Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, gstew said: Alex, what type & size C's do you recommend for this application? TIA! Greg in Mississippi Hi Greg I haven't taken the LT3045s too far in the Analogue area, but I would point out that they would almost certainly sound better when located close to the typical much larger filter capacitors immediately after a bridge rectifier. The main problem there though, is keeping the voltage across the LT3045 fairly low all the time. I would suggest that very Low ESR electros should not be used immediately after the Bridge Rectifiers in any Analogue PSU , with perhaps no lower ESR than say a 4,700 uF Panasonic FC. In general, where you need a little more warmth you could try 2 similar value parallel capacitors there such as a Panasonic FC and an Elna for Audio. Even with Capacitance multipliers such as used in the Capacitance Multiplier section of a John Linsley Hood designed PSU add-on, even though the simulated capacitance my be as high as 2FARADS, you can STILL hear the differences between the types of capacitors used. In fact, if you regulate down from internal +12V in a PC to +5V to power internal SSDs, (see attached) you can even hear the differences due to the types of capacitors used there with saved DIGITAL Audio files !!! This applies to the OS SSD as well To take it even further, you can even SEE the differences with saved high res Music Videos. I am able to demonstrate this to those who use something better than a typical Laptop , and use a decent Monitor. Kind Regards Alex johndoe21ro 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
gstew Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Alex, Thanks for this... and sorry for my slow response. I haven't used the LT304x regulators in analog-only circuits much either. My main use for them has been in mixed circuits (I consider anything that is generating or otherwise processing an I2S signal to be mixed, such as an isolator board, a reclocking board, or a DAC... which of course produces an analog output). There I mostly use boards purchased from poster OPC on DIYAudio (back when he was still selling boards) or MPAudio (back when he sold raw boards instead of just finished units). OPC's board are two sections of 4-paralleled LT3042, MPAudio's are either 2 sections of 3-paralleled LT3045 or a single section of 6-paralleled LT3045. All of these boards have positions for through-hole electrolytic caps before and after the regulator section. OPC listed caps from the KYB line of United ChemiCon in his BOM. I found they worked so well with his boards that I've adopted them as my go-to standard for this purpose (where I'm not dipping into my dwindling hoard of Black Gates). My experience with them is that AFTER they go through a moderatly-long break-in, they are fairly neutral (moreso than my experiences with the Elna Silmec and Panasonic FC, which may have been a-typical) with good dynamics (better than most of the Nichicon lines I've tried). The ESR of the particular KYB's I generally use at the input of the board are a tiny bit lower than the Panasonic FC you specified. In some cases I'm feeding them from AC-connected raw DC supplies that use Jensen 4-pole caps after the rectifiers (sometimes a bridge, sometimes a center-tapped transformer with a 2-diode full-wave setup). I have looked for the ESR of those caps and haven't found it specified. So even though the literature suggests they are low-ESR, I doubt it if they won't print the value. In other cases, I'm using a 2-section board (either OPC's or MPAudio's) to parallel Uptone Audio's LPS-1/1.2's for higher current applications. Honestly, for those uses I did at one time have a current-matched pair of LPS-1's. Comparing using the 'twins' direct to the load versus paralleled through an OPC dual-section 4||LT3042 board, I preferred the latter. AND I find MPAudio's boards used in the same mannter generally produce better results than the OPC boards, I'm assuming due to the different regulator chip. AND I've heard similar results with various caps in both mixed circuits and in fully digital circuits. Good to have that confirmed by someone I trust. Many thanks! Greg in Mississippi Everything Matters! 2 systems... Well-Tempered Refs->ET-2.5->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages Standalone digital Sony HAP Z1-ES or SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC Networked digital Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> EtherRegen -> USBBridge Sig -> Katana / Ian GB / Soerkis / Buffalo-IIIPro DACs Passive S&B TX102 TVC or ladder attenuators -> BHK-250 -> Eminent Tech LFT-VIII / IV / VI ALL gear modified / DIY'd; cables MIT; all supplies DIY’d or LPS-1.2s w/HUGE Ultracaps; Audio gear on DIY AC filters + PS Aud P15s; misc gear on separate AC w/filters Link to comment
FredM Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Farad power supplies have their new site up and running, which includes an interesting ‘future developments’ category: https://faradpowersupplies.com/shop/en/content/12-future-developments rickca 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 6 hours ago, gstew said: The ESR of the particular KYB's I generally use at the input of the board are a tiny bit lower than the Panasonic FC Hi Greg Actually, I was going to try replacing a 4700uF FC with a Rubycon YXF in the JLH PSU add-on powering my 2 internal SSDs as it has a slightly higher ESR , but I appear to have used the last one from Ebay which is usually more affordable for me these days. In my case I can also fit instead a 6.3V 4700uF Panasonic FC which has a little higher ESR as lower voltage electros of the same type do. I have found that in this case , that the FC imparts a smidgin too much HF detail, which can even be seen with saved video, but will reduce a little after copying/moving the A or V file to an HDD or USB memory. A small amount of added HF detail can help with generational copies, or with conversion from flac to .wav as with high res downloads, although this isn't supposed to happen with Digital. (in the JLH capacitance multiplier area there is only around 600mV across them) So you know what I am talking about, I have attached a copy of the modified JLH schematic . Kind Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
str-1 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Nice post from @austinpop https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=975720 Zenith SE > USPCB (5v off) > tX-USBultra 9V (SR4) > Sablon Reserva Elite USB > M Scaler > WAVE Stream bnc > DAVE > Prion4/Lazuli Reference > Utopia/LCD-4/HE1000se Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Less accent on LOW ESR capacitors at the output voltage regulator may have seen it tonally equal the fabled Paul Hynes unit ? That is an issue I also have with recent low noise voltage regulators such as the LT3045 series as typically implemented. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
George Hincapie Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 6/28/2019 at 7:38 PM, Ralf11 said: Isolate the music server from the DAC and don't worry about a PS for the music server. How? They have to connect via ethernet in my case; how to isolate? Link to comment
George Hincapie Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Can I ask generally, for those of you who have upgraded the power supplies for your music servers from SMPS to LPSU, what impact did that have? What was the scale of perceived improvement if there was any? Did any of you go through this process and fail to note any improvement? Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, George Hincapie said: How? They have to connect via ethernet in my case; how to isolate? use an opto-isolator - some DACs have them built in too ^ assumes you need more isolation that the transformers in Ethernet already give you... George Hincapie 1 Link to comment
George Hincapie Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 On 7/29/2019 at 12:21 AM, George Hincapie said: Can I ask generally, for those of you who have upgraded the power supplies for your music servers from SMPS to LPSU, what impact did that have? What was the scale of perceived improvement if there was any? Did any of you go through this process and fail to note any improvement? *Bump* Link to comment
George Hincapie Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 On 7/29/2019 at 12:21 AM, George Hincapie said: Can I ask generally, for those of you who have upgraded the power supplies for your music servers from SMPS to LPSU, what impact did that have? What was the scale of perceived improvement if there was any? Did any of you go through this process and fail to note any improvement? *Bump again* Come on guys; not a difficult question. I have two providers lined up, but I don't want to drop £1000 on a LPSU if it makes no difference. Your personal experiences please? Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Try asking the same question in the main thread " A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming " where you will find the vast majority are using linear PSUs. That's not to say though, that you can't also vastly improve the supply rails of SMPS PSus with similar Linear voltage regulator techniques. George Hincapie 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
George Hincapie Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, sandyk said: Try asking the same question in the main thread " A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming " where you will find the vast majority are using linear PSUs. That's not to say though, that you can't also vastly improve the supply rails of SMPS PSus with similar Linear voltage regulator techniques. Don't the same people read this thread? Will give it a try, thanks. Link to comment
charlesphoto Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 2 hours ago, George Hincapie said: *Bump again* Come on guys; not a difficult question. I have two providers lined up, but I don't want to drop £1000 on a LPSU if it makes no difference. Your personal experiences please? When I got my NUC 7i5 that runs Roon ROCK, I already had an HDPLEX 100 and a cheap 12V 6a zero zone LPS on hand. I powered the NUC with the 19v rail on the HDPLEX until I accidentally blew that rail, and now with the 12v Zerozone. Can't say I noticed a difference between the two, and I never even unwrapped the SMPS supplied so no baseline to compare. How's that for a non-answer? I would just consider whether you really need to spend 1k on the server power supply unless it will serve as an endpoint also - you might want to try a cheaper option and spend the $ elsewhere in your chain. SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
George Hincapie Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, charlesphoto said: When I got my NUC 7i5 that runs Roon ROCK, I already had an HDPLEX 100 and a cheap 12V 6a zero zone LPS on hand. I powered the NUC with the 19v rail on the HDPLEX until I accidentally blew that rail, and now with the 12v Zerozone. Can't say I noticed a difference between the two, and I never even unwrapped the SMPS supplied so no baseline to compare. How's that for a non-answer? I would just consider whether you really need to spend 1k on the server power supply unless it will serve as an endpoint also - you might want to try a cheaper option and spend the $ elsewhere in your chain. Well it's a response, so that's great! My server feeds a Metrum Acoustics Ambre Roon EP via ethernet. My concern is that my configuration may mean I won't realise any improvement. If that's the truth, then fine; I can live with that. I'd rather not spend the money and then find out. Link to comment
jcn3 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, George Hincapie said: Well it's a response, so that's great! My server feeds a Metrum Acoustics Ambre Roon EP via ethernet. My concern is that my configuration may mean I won't realise any improvement. If that's the truth, then fine; I can live with that. I'd rather not spend the money and then find out. in making decisions or setting priorities, i'd move from the endpoint backwards -- (1) optimize power on endpoint; (2) isolate the endpoint on the network; (3) optimized power on the server. RickyV 1 (1) holo audio red (hqp naa) > chord dave > luxman cl-38uc/mq-88uc > kef reference 1 (2) simaudio moon mind 2 > chord qutest > luxman sq-n150 > monitor audio gold gx100 Link to comment
Popular Post Ralf11 Posted July 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2019 5 hours ago, George Hincapie said: Don't the same people read this thread? Will give it a try, thanks. That thread is a controlled or censored thread. No one there has done a proper (i.e. blinded) listening test, that I have seen. The claims made there are merely anecdotal and untested. Upgrading the stock SMPS to an expensive LPS in a computer source cannot affect the SQ by any known mechanism as long as your source is isolated from the DAC. Claims to the contrary are often made by people who do not understand digital signal transmission, and are too lazy to a proper listening test to remove confirmation bias. There are three modes of transmission by which noise could reach the DAC from a source (computer). 1. The most important (if you use USB cables) is the cable itself. Some DACs are isolated internally by the manf. For others, you can use optical or WiFi to connect them to your source. USB is notorious for carrying noise along with the stream of bits, whereas the other two will not. Ethernet has transformers which will at least partially isolate the DAC from the music source - maybe, just maybe, they do not isolate enough. There are various addons to isolate ethernet too. 2. One other possibility exists for noise transmission to the DAC: and that is via the AC line that powers all the devices. Noise would have to get past at least two power transformers to affect the DAC. This is possible but likely to be less of an issue than say USB. And there are numerous ways 3. It is conceivable that HF noise could be radiated from one component (computer) to the DAC. An easy way to attenuate this noise transmission mode is to put them in different rooms or different places in a room. That often puts them on different AC lines ("mains") too. 4. I will just include a fourth mechanism in case I forgot any conceivable transmission mode. Magik. Be sure you can return anything you buy after doing a listening test. For a listening test, try to use the highest quality source material that is most susceptible to noise effects - maybe symphonic or electronica. Do important things first (speakers, listening room acoustics, then high quality analog items like the amp and pre-amp). Proceed in an organized fashion, and avoid wasting money on things that do not, and cannot, work. You will gain more esthetic satisfaction by donating to charity than by buying a Bubinga wood Tice clock for the Ethernet cables. Teresa, kumakuma and Le Concombre Masqué 3 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I just cleaned up the thread. Stop the nonsense. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
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