sandyk Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Chopin75 Don't forget that as the OP of this thread that you are able to request that off topic and other extraneous material be removed. Let's not see this thread with potentially worthwhile information get derailed before it even gets going properly. Regards Alex Chopin75 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, Dev said: Some manufacturers have an uncanny aptitude here to thrash other products whenever their sound quality exceeds all the well-known marketed products in AS. No particular power supply will necessarily sound best in all systems !!! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 30 minutes ago, Dev said: Why not ? Well, the beloved SR-7 seems to do the trick. That is your personal subjective opinion only, although the SR-7 is undoubtedly a high performer and will suit already well optimised systems.. Not all systems sound the same, nor do all power supplies respond the same to sudden transient demands on current.. Some systems may sound a little too dull sounding or lacking in dynamics , others may lack a little warmth, and many (most?) will benefit from a little added HF detail. These shortcomings can for the most part be corrected by the right choice of power supplies to suit the problem. As an example, many members appear to like the added HF detail that the low noise L3045 series of Voltage regulators can provide, due to their output impedance in most applications being a little lower to >100kHz which can accentuate HF detail. Most devices do however benefit from lower noise power supplies than from the much older style voltage regulators such as the LM317 etc.which are not very effective at removing residual HF ripple from SMPS supplies. Chopin75 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chopin75 said: And Supracap or ultra caps (I presume they are same) are very popular these days. So are they superior to Toroidal or R Core ?? They will still need power supplied by a transformer of some kind, or a high A.H. battery. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 9 hours ago, jabbr said: We are in the frankly bizarre situation where power supplies are being discussed as having a “sound”. The function of a power supply is to supply clean, unimpeded power, without noise. It's not just about noise. It's also about having a low impedance power supply where the output impedance isn't much lower at one end of the spectrum than the other , e.g. to >100kHz ,which many very low voltage regulators give when used for audio using just the data sheets .Not only can the power supply area alter how music sounds, it can also alter how Video looks, both at the same time, even when used with Digital storage such as SSD and USB memory !!! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 9 hours ago, Jud said: A careful reading of the material on Corning’s web site shows the wires are there to provide the specified 5v USB power. So no galvanic isolation exists. Hi Jud One advantage is, that although the power leads are in close proximity to the optical fibre, they can't induce SMPS noise from the PC/Server's +5V supply into the data pair like with a normal USB cable. This isn't a problem of course with the better USB cables where they sometimes fully separate the power and data lines. Kind Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 31 minutes ago, Chopin75 said: but still it won't be as good as the source's clock. That depends on the quality of the source, which may have even come from streaming. I don't have too much to disagree with in your last paragraph though. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 18 minutes ago, R1200CL said: I would be very surprised if not @Superdad and John hasn’t figured this out long time ago them self. I’m quite sure Uptone at some point will do something regarding using the UltraCap technology one way or another to be able to feed the “required” 1.5 A into a opticalRendu. To me, the simplest solution is to inject Vbus power from a second LPS-1.2. So I’m hoping for a new USPCB with such an option available. It may be the simplest solution for some, but it's still an expensive option. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Jud said: (2) Clocking from the source can’t physically be as precise as clocking at the DAC. The second of these means that all else being equal, we’d want async USB input for the DAC. Hi Jud Even with coax SPDIF you can get fabulous results from a DAC using a combination of a TCXO and a decoder chip such as the older DIR9001 which also uses a PLL along with the high quality OPTIONAL reference oscillator. Several minutes after switching on from cold you can hear the SQ jump up a notch in quality and stay there. That was particularly obvious with high res material, where the stability of the clocking appears to need to be far more precise for best results. Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Nenon You are definitely on the right track Regards Alex Ralf11 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 5 hours ago, misterspense said: Again the product (etherregen) already turn legendary before the first ones are actually sold. I quit well remember the first usb regen, which would clean up a usb signal so good, that everything upstream would not matter anymore..... As good as it is, the original Uptone USB Regen further improves the quality of USB output when powered by a separate low noise external PSU or battery , and is directly plugged into a front panel USB port via a USB-A to USB-B adaptor which doesn't have shield and the PC/Servers noisy SMPS +5V connected through. This modification may not work with all USB devices though, and is best made switchable. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 On 7/8/2019 at 2:01 PM, Nenon said: Directly. The voltage regulator boards sit about an inch or two away from the ATX / EPS connectors. http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/power-supply-design-innuos-statement - that's pretty much what I have done, but with shorter JSSG360 shielded Mundorf silver/gold wires, WBT silver solder, Furutech NanoLiquid, etc. It was a very OCD-style implementation. And very time consuming. But the end result was awesome. Re the attached statement from the link Quote For example, if we were powering the SSD and a clock module from the same regulator, then any supply noise created within the SSD (power usage is typically not constant, any variations mean a change in current draw and a very small change in voltage at the regulator output) would be free to travel along the supply wire and it would be fed straight into the clock module as well. Doing that is a definite No,No, as the ripple injected back into the supply from the SSD/HDD consists of "square wave" pulses with a bandwidth to >10MHz with a typical HDD, and probably worse with an SSD How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Nenon said: What is a "definite No,No"? Don't feed power to both an Oscillator and an SSD from the same supply rail without further regulation (preferably) or further filtering of the power to the oscillator. I use the attached, which is fairly similar to the P.F.M. Flea to separately power oscillators from an already low noise voltage regulator. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, Nenon said: They don't do that. Perhaps you misread what they wrote. I didn't misread it. I was trying to reinforce in more depth what they were saying. It's not just about small voltage variations, it's about the wideband, fast rise and fall time noise from the SSD being superimposed on the supply to the Oscillator, How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 12 hours ago, manishex said: At the moment i have a 550W seasonic fanless PSU for my standard pc, I only use about 300W. You need to know the actual current it draws at start up. It may be a bit much for most Linear PSUs How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 3 hours ago, [email protected] said: Just finished small test Alexey Ever wondered why in the whole 36 page Data sheet there is no mention of the LT3045 for it's suitability for use with Analogue Audio, or any diagrams given for analogue use such as in Low noise Audio Preamplifiers etc? The Data sheets make NO claims as to their suitability for HiFi Audio . Normally, a manufacturer would jump at a chance to list that in their suitable uses. It's virtually all about their use for low noise Instrumentation. Unless I missed it, neither do they give any graphs for output impedance with frequency. With all the low value, low ESR capacitors that they need to use, don't be surprised if their output impedance is way less at >100KHz and higher, than it is over the Audio band. With Analogue electronics this results in accentuation of HF detail, unless Higher value normal ESR capacitors are used in parallel at their inputs etc. Unless you also do this,this may also result with some systems in a large and billowy soundstage, with perhaps sibilance accentuated and a little "hardness" about the sound. Perhaps this is why so many members still love Vinyl, and find typical Digital Audio implementations lacking a natural warmth ? The addition of the extra capacitance then results in trade offs in regulator speed and HF bandwidth, which aren't normally a problem for Analogue Audio though. Yes, the LT3045 works very well though as a low noise supply for the input chips of DACs where I use one, but I certainly wouldn't use them without additional parallel capacitors in the Analogue areas of DACs and Audio Preamplifiers. Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 43 minutes ago, [email protected] said: Hi Not sure that manufacturers should claim that this regulator "good for audio", but you can find some expensive "audio grade capacitors" For the output impedance - check link belowhttps://www.belleson.com/comparenewzout.php And finally - performance of the regulator depends on the components around it., but i don't think you can find best possible option. The fact remains that quite a few constructors who have used the LT3045 with recommended type and value capacitors as in the Data sheets , report an increase in HF detail, and if another one is used in series, a further increase in HF detail is reported. The LT3045 needs some additional Audio grade capacitors for a balanced tonal presentation. With virtually every type of voltage regulator, the type and value of the capacitors, especially at the input always has some influence on how the voltage regulator will sound. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 1 hour ago, gstew said: Alex, what type & size C's do you recommend for this application? TIA! Greg in Mississippi Hi Greg I haven't taken the LT3045s too far in the Analogue area, but I would point out that they would almost certainly sound better when located close to the typical much larger filter capacitors immediately after a bridge rectifier. The main problem there though, is keeping the voltage across the LT3045 fairly low all the time. I would suggest that very Low ESR electros should not be used immediately after the Bridge Rectifiers in any Analogue PSU , with perhaps no lower ESR than say a 4,700 uF Panasonic FC. In general, where you need a little more warmth you could try 2 similar value parallel capacitors there such as a Panasonic FC and an Elna for Audio. Even with Capacitance multipliers such as used in the Capacitance Multiplier section of a John Linsley Hood designed PSU add-on, even though the simulated capacitance my be as high as 2FARADS, you can STILL hear the differences between the types of capacitors used. In fact, if you regulate down from internal +12V in a PC to +5V to power internal SSDs, (see attached) you can even hear the differences due to the types of capacitors used there with saved DIGITAL Audio files !!! This applies to the OS SSD as well To take it even further, you can even SEE the differences with saved high res Music Videos. I am able to demonstrate this to those who use something better than a typical Laptop , and use a decent Monitor. Kind Regards Alex johndoe21ro 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 6 hours ago, gstew said: The ESR of the particular KYB's I generally use at the input of the board are a tiny bit lower than the Panasonic FC Hi Greg Actually, I was going to try replacing a 4700uF FC with a Rubycon YXF in the JLH PSU add-on powering my 2 internal SSDs as it has a slightly higher ESR , but I appear to have used the last one from Ebay which is usually more affordable for me these days. In my case I can also fit instead a 6.3V 4700uF Panasonic FC which has a little higher ESR as lower voltage electros of the same type do. I have found that in this case , that the FC imparts a smidgin too much HF detail, which can even be seen with saved video, but will reduce a little after copying/moving the A or V file to an HDD or USB memory. A small amount of added HF detail can help with generational copies, or with conversion from flac to .wav as with high res downloads, although this isn't supposed to happen with Digital. (in the JLH capacitance multiplier area there is only around 600mV across them) So you know what I am talking about, I have attached a copy of the modified JLH schematic . Kind Regards Alex How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Less accent on LOW ESR capacitors at the output voltage regulator may have seen it tonally equal the fabled Paul Hynes unit ? That is an issue I also have with recent low noise voltage regulators such as the LT3045 series as typically implemented. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Try asking the same question in the main thread " A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming " where you will find the vast majority are using linear PSUs. That's not to say though, that you can't also vastly improve the supply rails of SMPS PSus with similar Linear voltage regulator techniques. George Hincapie 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post sandyk Posted August 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, jabbr said: Valid electronic explanations of why server PSUs don’t affect music streamed across good networks have been repeatedly given. That does NOT mean that they are necessarily correct, and those findings are at a variance with a large number of posters in Rajiv's thread. Your Subjective reports are no more valid than those of numerous posters in that thread. AnotherSpin and motberg 2 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, jabbr said: I’ve no idea. I’ve never seen a coherent explanation of why a server PSU could affect the audio that passes across my network — hint: my network is designed to scrub & polish the bits that fly across it. And exactly what do those "scrubbed and polished" bits represent ? Do they guarantee that the Audio or Video file that you are playing will LOOK or SOUND exactly the same as the original file ? How are you able to verify this without a direct comparison using the original file vs. your file through the exact same equipment chain ? All the members who post in Rajiv's massive thread would also like to believe that what they hear AND see is virtually identical to the original, but I would be highly surprised if there weren't quite obvious audible and visual differences between the vast majority of the posters' systems, and yours too. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, jabbr said: I am saying that noise from the server doesn’t cross into the audio system. And I am saying that your "scrubbed and polished" Bitstream doesn't necessarily result in looking or sounding exactly the same as the original recorded performance. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, Chopin75 said: Those who disagree here should not really be discussing here, as this is the wrong thread. Perhaps joining a thread about isolating the source would be more appropriate. Thankyou Hi Chopin 7 As the OP of this thread you have the ability to have removed the posts by those who deliberately set out to disrupt your thread .. Alex Quote It is my belief that a clean power source is better than trying to clean up downstream. It is not just my belief, I am able to prove this is a fact . However, the usual suspects are not interested in seeing AND hearing (both at the same time if their equipment is good enough) any proof that goes against their own deeply ingrained beliefs. andrewinukm 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
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