Hqplayer: best NAA with best sound quality

[DancingSea]

On 4/12/2020 at 9:24 AM, Miska said:

This is what I use mostly:

https://up-shop.org/home/339-up-gws01w4g-memory32g-emmc-boardwo-vesa-plate.html

It also works for USB input side.

 

I may soon add also one more ARM-based board that also works for USB inputs.

 

Caveat Emptor:  I’m not nearly as technologically knowledgeable as you lot 🤗

 

Do I understand correctly that this $189 device is a NAA?  Meaning it does the same job as one of the Rendus?

[Miska]

4 hours ago, DancingSea said:

Do I understand correctly that this $189 device is a NAA?  Meaning it does the same job as one of the Rendus?

 

Yes, it is recommended for NAA use (input or output). It can also run HQPlayer Embedded with some basic PCM to PCM upsampling and such.

[DancingSea]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, it is recommended for NAA use (input or output). It can also run HQPlayer Embedded with some basic PCM to PCM upsampling and such.

 

Please indulge my lack of knowledge a bit further.  I’m Mac based.  Is the UP Gateway Atom already a NAA?  Or must I do something to make it a NAA?  If yes, what must I do, and how do I do it?

 

Thanks.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

Please indulge my lack of knowledge a bit further.  I’m Mac based.  Is the UP Gateway Atom already a NAA?  Or must I do something to make it a NAA?  If yes, what must I do, and how do I do it?

 

It's a PC, not entirely regular one, very low power one, but still a standard PC. You need my software to make turn it into a NAA.

 

From my web page you can download bootable NAA images that include OS and the NAA software module, all in one. You dump such image for example on USB memory stick using tool like Etcher, and then boot up the device using that image. And that's it. When there's software update, you dump the new version on a stick (same or different) and boot up from that one.

 

[DancingSea]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It's a PC, not entirely regular one, very low power one, but still a standard PC. You need my software to make turn it into a NAA.

 

From my web page you can download bootable NAA images that include OS and the NAA software module, all in one. You dump such image for example on USB memory stick using tool like Etcher, and then boot up the device using that image. And that's it. When there's software update, you dump the new version on a stick (same or different) and boot up from that one.

 

 

Let’s break it down into baby steps.  Let me know if I’m on the right track, and fill in the blanks where you can:

 

1) On my Mac, I format a memory stick to something like exFAT?

 

2) Download the bootable NAA image that includes OS and the NAA software module all in one, on my Mac.  And put it onto the otherwise blank memory stick?  While on my Mac, do I need to double click whatever I dowloaded from you site?  Or just having it on the memory stick enough?

 

3) Precisely which NAA image are you referring to?  Is it obvious on your website?  I remember there being many many choices.

 

4) I plug the exFAT memory stick with your software on it into the Atom.  And then turn on the Atom. Is that it?  Do I need to be able to see visually what’s on the Atom, like with a monitor?  Is there anything to be done on the Atom besides plugging in the memory stick with your software on it?

 

5) I have Roon Core and HQPlayer Desktop on my Mac Mini.  With HQP launched, will the Atom (connected to Ethernet cable) appear as one of the output options on HQP4 Desktop?  Currently I select Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 as the output in HQP4 Desktop.

 

6) Does the Atom need to be configured in regards to Ethernet?  Or is it automatic?

 

6) My chain goes USB —> RUR —> USB —> Matrix Audio X SPDIF 2 —> I2S —> DirectStream Junior.  Does the Atom go before the RUR?  The USB goes out of the Atom and into the RUR?

 

7) Does the Atom have to be specifically compatible with the Matrix Audio x SPDIF 2?

 

 

😎 Do you use a fancy power supply for the Atom?

 

Thanks

[ericuco]

38 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Let’s break it down into baby steps.  Let me know if I’m on the right track, and fill in the blanks where you can:

 

1) On my Mac, I format a memory stick to something like exFAT?

 

2) Download the bootable NAA image that includes OS and the NAA software module all in one, on my Mac.  And put it onto the otherwise blank memory stick?  While on my Mac, do I need to double click whatever I dowloaded from you site?  Or just having it on the memory stick enough?

 

3) Precisely which NAA image are you referring to?  Is it obvious on your website?  I remember there being many many choices.

 

4) I plug the exFAT memory stick with your software on it into the Atom.  And then turn on the Atom. Is that it?  Do I need to be able to see visually what’s on the Atom, like with a monitor?  Is there anything to be done on the Atom besides plugging in the memory stick with your software on it?

 

5) I have Roon Core and HQPlayer Desktop on my Mac Mini.  With HQP launched, will the Atom (connected to Ethernet cable) appear as one of the output options on HQP4 Desktop?  Currently I select Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 as the output in HQP4 Desktop.

 

6) Does the Atom need to be configured in regards to Ethernet?  Or is it automatic?

 

6) My chain goes USB —> RUR —> USB —> Matrix Audio X SPDIF 2 —> I2S —> DirectStream Junior.  Does the Atom go before the RUR?  The USB goes out of the Atom and into the RUR?

 

7) Does the Atom have to be specifically compatible with the Matrix Audio x SPDIF 2?

 

 

😎 Do you use a fancy power supply for the Atom?

 

Thanks

As Miska said, you have to use a program like Etcher in order to create a bootable USB drive (memory stick). Etcher will take care of formatting the drive and writing Miska’s NAA OS image to the drive. All this can be done on your Mac. Generally Etcher asks which image to write and to what drive ... fairly straightforward ... just don’t pick your local hardrive.

 

Once you have the USB drive, plug into your Atom PC and power up. There is nothing else to do assuming the Atom PC boots correctly. You can’t login into Atom PC to change anything. Obviously it needs to be connected to your network (Ethernet) and DAC (USB usually).

[DancingSea]

3 hours ago, ericuco said:

As Miska said, you have to use a program like Etcher in order to create a bootable USB drive (memory stick). Etcher will take care of formatting the drive and writing Miska’s NAA OS image to the drive. All this can be done on your Mac. Generally Etcher asks which image to write and to what drive ... fairly straightforward ... just don’t pick your local hardrive.

 

Once you have the USB drive, plug into your Atom PC and power up. There is nothing else to do assuming the Atom PC boots correctly. You can’t login into Atom PC to change anything. Obviously it needs to be connected to your network (Ethernet) and DAC (USB usually).

Went to the HQPlayer website and looked in the NAA section.  What is it I’d download to my Mac? Is it the Network Audio Daemon 4.1.1?

[AnotherSpin]

32 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

Went to the HQPlayer website and looked in the NAA section.  What is it I’d download to my Mac? Is it the Network Audio Daemon 4.1.1?

 

x64.7z from /bins/naa/images/ directory on Miska's site. Image should be downloaded to your mac mini and it is pretty easy to put it on a usb stick with Etcher. Before you get dedicated NAA endpoint as Up PC you can try how NAA solution works for you with any other computer after booting mac mini or other computer from NAA usb. Both your mac mini and other computer (once I was trying this with macbook air) should be connected to one network with ethernet or wi-fi. This is not the best solution, and wi-fi may be not sufficient for dropless replay, but, it will give a glimpse to possible sound improvement at least. Mac mini -> ethernet -> router -> ethernet -> NAA -> DAC. For experiment mac mini and NAA would be connected with ethernet cable directly.

[DancingSea]

21 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

x64.7z from /bins/naa/images/ directory on Miska's site.

I’m unable to find this page.  Could you please provide a direct link?

 

Also, how does this $200 Atom setup compare to the astonishingly inexpensive Rasberry Pi?

 

Thanks

[AnotherSpin]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

I’m unable to find this page.  Could you please provide a direct link?

 

Also, how does this $200 Atom setup compare to the astonishingly inexpensive Rasberry Pi?

 

Thanks

 

www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/images/

 

Never tried both Atom and Raspberry, can not tell the difference, I guess I would trust Miska's advice here. I use much more expensive custom NUC in fanless case with LPSU... Some people believe that using more powerful computers as NAA endpoints gives better sound. I decided to go down this path, and I don't regret it. 

[ambre]

On 6/6/2020 at 3:46 AM, ericuco said:

As Miska said, you have to use a program like Etcher in order to create a bootable USB drive (memory stick). Etcher will take care of formatting the drive and writing Miska’s NAA OS image to the drive. All this can be done on your Mac. Generally Etcher asks which image to write and to what drive ... fairly straightforward ... just don’t pick your local hardrive.

 

Once you have the USB drive, plug into your Atom PC and power up. There is nothing else to do assuming the Atom PC boots correctly. You can’t login into Atom PC to change anything. Obviously it needs to be connected to your network (Ethernet) and DAC (USB usually).

Hi Ericuco,

i have also bought the same mini pc. Do i have to change the boot sequence in the bios? Because Windows 10 is pre-installed?

Thanks in advance.

Andreas
 

 

[ambre]

Ps. As recomended by Miska I use this mini pc 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-x5-Z8350-Graphics-Computer-Bluetooth/dp/B07D9YX3W6

[brother love]

@ambre  For HQP NAA bootable USB flash drive: connect a wired keyboard to your Atom x5-z8350, press F7 key rapidly on startup to access setup utility, select boot tab, change boot order priorities to USB key & disable Windows boot manager

 

FWIW, these z8350 type mini pc's work great as a non-OS NAA, but suck otherwise esp. if they have 2 gb ram, 32 gb storage & win 10 OS (Windows constantly demands more storage requiring too much upkeep & graphics are way too demanding for a small processor).

[ambre]

2 hours ago, brother love said:

@ambre  For HQP NAA bootable USB flash drive: connect a wired keyboard to your Atom x5-z8350, press F7 key rapidly on startup to access setup utility, select boot tab, change boot order priorities to USB key & disable Windows boot manager

 

FWIW, these z8350 type mini pc's work great as a non-OS NAA, but suck otherwise esp. if they have 2 gb ram, 32 gb storage & win 10 OS (Windows constantly demands more storage requiring too much upkeep & graphics are way too demanding for a small processor).

Thanks 

[brother love]

Since I can no longer edit my post above (why?), corrections for x5-z8350 mini-pc as noted below ...

 

step 1: press Delete key rapidly on startup to access setup utility, change boot priority #1 to USB Key, save & exit, shutdown mini-pc.

 

step 2: insert USB flash drive, press F7 key rapidly on startup to access USB flash drive, select UEFI: 8.07, Partition 1, select boot for HQP NAA to do it's thing, unplug mini-pc.

 

step 3: starting mini-pc initiates HQP NAA & should now be recognized by HQPlayer installed on server. Unplug mini-pc when finished.

 

If you access setup utility... fixed boot priority #1 is USB Key: UEFI 8.07 Partition 1 & boot option #1 is UEFI: 8.07, Partition 1

 

Removing USB flash drive results in mini pc reverting to Windows OS (& steps above must be repeated for USB NAA).

[ambre]

48 minutes ago, brother love said:

Since I can no longer edit my post above (why?), corrections for x5-z8350 mini-pc as noted below ...

 

step 1: press Delete key rapidly on startup to access setup utility, change boot priority #1 to USB Key, save & exit, shutdown mini-pc.

 

step 2: insert USB flash drive, press F7 key rapidly on startup to access USB flash drive, select UEFI: 8.07, Partition 1, select boot for HQP NAA to do it's thing, unplug mini-pc.

 

step 3: starting mini-pc initiates HQP NAA & should now be recognized by HQPlayer installed on server. Unplug mini-pc when finished.

 

If you access setup utility... fixed boot priority #1 is USB Key: UEFI 8.07 Partition 1 & boot option #1 is UEFI: 8.07, Partition 1

 

Removing USB flash drive results in mini pc reverting to Windows OS (& steps above must be repeated for USB NAA).

Thanks again.

Very best regards,Andreas

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, brother love said:

I can no longer edit my post above (why?)

For the same reason you must lock your car doors in a parking lot. There’s a small percentage of people who abuse things and ruin it for everyone. 

[DancingSea]

13 hours ago, ambre said:

Ps. As recomended by Miska I use this mini pc 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-x5-Z8350-Graphics-Computer-Bluetooth/dp/B07D9YX3W6

 

Are there any of these sorts of mini computers sold in the USA?  Both this and the Atom come from Europe.  

 

And how do these sorts of mini computers handle the “dirty side” / “clean side” vs the Allo products?

[ericuco]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

Are there any of these sorts of mini computers sold in the USA?  Both this and the Atom come from Europe.  

 

And how do these sorts of mini computers handle the “dirty side” / “clean side” vs the Allo products?

 

A quick search of Amazon found this.

[DancingSea]

6 hours ago, ericuco said:

 

A quick search of Amazon found this.

 

Thanks!  I didn’t know what to search for.  Is this one @Miska approved?

 

What sort of power linear power supplies work with this?  Will this one work with it?

https://allo.com/sparky/shanti.html

[Miska]

10 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

Thanks!  I didn’t know what to search for.  Is this one @Miska approved?

 

What sort of power linear power supplies work with this?  Will this one work with it?

https://allo.com/sparky/shanti.html

 

Possibly from 3A output, but 3A is a bit on the low side. I would use 5/6A PSU.

 

[luisma]

23 hours ago, DancingSea said:

And how do these sorts of mini computers handle the “dirty side” / “clean side” vs the Allo products?

they don't, you need to supply these with proper "clean power", the one you provided in the link is 5V which can be powered with pretty much anything, LPS, battery+ldovr reg, you name it.

 

I'm sorry I just noticed you were referring to the Allo PS not the Allo Bridge, you are correct an LPS will deal with that.

 

I haven't tried the Allo Shanti, but if I would like to experiment I would get an ldovr double regulated 7V - 6V - 5V for this Amazon PC you sent before

the LDOVR must be under 6 Watts, assumming the mini PC does 3A at 5V

At 7V in and 5V out you will dissipate P=(7-5)*3A=6W

so you are pretty much at the limit, you could feed the double regulated PS with either a power cube or Powermax batteries like others are doing, if it does more than 3A then you can't use the double regulator and instead you will need to get a JS2 from Uptone (expensive but great), John Kennys supercaps are good and I think he is doing 3A or so, HDplex certainly,

 

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, luisma said:

they don't, you need to supply these with proper "clean power", the one you provided in the link is 5V which can be powered with pretty much anything, LPS, battery+ldovr reg, you name it.

 

I'm sorry I just noticed you were referring to the Allo PS not the Allo Bridge, you are correct an LPS will deal with that.

 

I haven't tried the Allo Shanti, but if I would like to experiment I would get an ldovr double regulated 7V - 6V - 5V for this Amazon PC you sent before

the LDOVR must be under 6 Watts, assumming the mini PC does 3A at 5V

At 7V in and 5V out you will dissipate P=(7-5)*3A=6W

so you are pretty much at the limit, you could feed the double regulated PS with either a power cube or Powermax batteries like others are doing, if it does more than 3A then you can't use the double regulator and instead you will need to get a JS2 from Uptone (expensive but great), John Kennys supercaps are good and I think he is doing 3A or so, HDplex certainly,

 

 

Thanks, I have been wondering this as well.

[ambre]

On 6/5/2020 at 11:41 PM, Miska said:

 

It's a PC, not entirely regular one, very low power one, but still a standard PC. You need my software to make turn it into a NAA.

 

From my web page you can download bootable NAA images that include OS and the NAA software module, all in one. You dump such image for example on USB memory stick using tool like Etcher, and then boot up the device using that image. And that's it. When there's software update, you dump the new version on a stick (same or different) and boot up from that one.

 

HI Jussy, installed the NAA-411-X64 on https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-x5-Z8350-Graphics-Computer-Bluetooth/dp/B07D9YX3W6

On screen it gives Network Audio Adapter 4.x.3.0.1 naa tty1

But I am now asked for NAA login and password? Please advice 

[ericuco]

6 minutes ago, ambre said:

HI Jussy, installed the NAA-411-X64 on https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-x5-Z8350-Graphics-Computer-Bluetooth/dp/B07D9YX3W6

On screen it gives Network Audio Adapter 4.x.3.0.1 naa tty1

But I am now asked for NAA login and password? Please advice 

 

I don't think you are permitted to log-in to the computer when using one of images.