Hqplayer: best NAA with best sound quality

[firedog]

30 minutes ago, ambre said:

Miska, LOOK AT YOUR SITE!!!😁

StackAudio on yr webpage

 

 

 

There are two lists: Recommended and "devices with". The Stack Audio is on the latter, not the recommended list. Not recommended because he didn't test it, maybe, is the answer.

[ambre]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

I don't know more than that it has NAA functionality, sorry.

Dear Miska,

 

Strange especially referring to your earlier statement " 

Some devices are more official than others. I prefer companies to ask me for approval before delivering products that include my software. Many companies do that, but not all. Products I'm personally testing with can also end up on my recommended hardware listing. Yes, but not distribute it...

 

That you put it on your Home Webpage and NOT knowing what of  kind of device and/or software is used only creates confusion in this way.  

 

Sorry Miska, Our discussion concerning NAA for moreover a week was by no .....means enlightening and did not help me at all. 

 

Very best regards, Andreas 

 

[firedog]

51 minutes ago, ambre said:

Dear Miska,

 

Strange especially referring to your earlier statement " 

Some devices are more official than others. I prefer companies to ask me for approval before delivering products that include my software. Many companies do that, but not all. Products I'm personally testing with can also end up on my recommended hardware listing. Yes, but not distribute it...

 

That you put it on your Home Webpage and NOT knowing what of  kind of device and/or software is used only creates confusion in this way.  

 

Sorry Miska, Our discussion concerning NAA for moreover a week was by no .....means enlightening and did not help me at all. 

 

Very best regards, Andreas 

 

Sorry, don't assume because you didn't read carefully that the confusion is with anyone but you. I think many people can understand the difference between a listed component and a recommended device. 

 

You keep asking about the Link II (and you mix it up with the LinQ, a different device). If you look, you'd see that I have a Link II in my system and in my experience it works perfectly as an NAA, as I wrote previously.

 

 

[ambre]

28 minutes ago, firedog said:

Sorry, don't assume because you didn't read carefully that the confusion is with anyone but you. I think many people can understand the difference between a listed component and a recommended device. 

 

You keep asking about the Link II (and you mix it up with the LinQ, a different device). If you look, you'd see that I have a Link II in my system and in my experience it works perfectly as an NAA, as I wrote previously.

 

 

Dear Firedog, 

Please read my posting more carefully before you make such statements. It was 

4/5/2021 at 2:34 PM,  Confused said: 

I notice that you list the LinQ on your website.  Only I made one mistake in one description called it Stack Linq2 😎

 

You stated and asked more or less same questions:

The Stack Audio Link II runs a proprietary version of Ropieee XL. So it works perfectly as an NAA. Jussi can answer, but other than his own software, I don't think he makes devices official. Anyone is free to download NAA and run it. 

 

So just curious how it works: did the writer of Ropieee XL get your approval for including NAA? He apparently supplied a specialized version of Ropieee XL to Stack Audio for their streamer. Is that also approved

 

I had same questions as you... remember?
 

Besides that I struggled a lot with newest NAA images  that don’t work on my X64 Mini Pc to solve / test my problem of losing connection. 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, ambre said:

Strange especially referring to your earlier statement " 

Some devices are more official than others. I prefer companies to ask me for approval before delivering products that include my software. Many companies do that, but not all. Products I'm personally testing with can also end up on my recommended hardware listing. Yes, but not distribute it...

 

That you put it on your Home Webpage and NOT knowing what of  kind of device and/or software is used only creates confusion in this way.

 

They have now asked me about it and the discussion is ongoing. There are certainly various devices out there that have NAA functionality, but I don't have and thus cannot test.

 

2 hours ago, ambre said:

to solve / test my problem of losing connection

 

The only solution is either of the two:

• Shutdown HQPlayer before switching inputs or otherwise causing the DAC to disconnect from USB bus
• Have the DAC fixed so that it doesn't disappear from the USB bus as long as VBUS / USB link is active

 

[seeteeyou]

RPi CM4 carrier board w/ 54MHz OCXO clock, ultra-low noise regulators etc.

 

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-743935-1-1.html

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-744128-1-1.html

http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2223366

http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2224545

 

 

 

 

 

I'll post an update once the pricing etc. is announced.

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

RPi CM4 carrier board w/ 54MHz OCXO clock, ultra-low noise regulators etc.

 

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-743935-1-1.html

http://www.headphoneclub.com/thread-744128-1-1.html

http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2223366

http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2224545

 

 

 

 

 

I'll post an update once the pricing etc. is announced.

 

Wow, I'm impressed.

[Confused]

On 4/19/2021 at 5:58 AM, seeteeyou said:

RPi CM4 carrier board w/ 54MHz OCXO clock, ultra-low noise regulators etc.

This looks very interesting, thanks for posting.  

 

It also gives me a thought.  For my system the ideal device would be a decent quality NAA with AES/EBU output.  (I am currently using SOtM kit outputting USB, then converting USB to AES/EBU, it would be nice to eliminate USB from the chain)

 

Elsewhere I have seen very good reports of the Pi2AES, see video below.  I'm thinking that the OCXO'd RPi could be combined with the Pi2AES?  Might be an interesting solution.

 

 

[seeteeyou]

No love for PI2AES (or any HATs) whatsoever since that particular OCXO'd carrier board won't even have 40-pin GPIO at all.

 

However, they're already planning to release their own Mercury Streamer based on RPi CM4

 

https://www.pi2design.com/coming-soon.html

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/pi2-design-idiot-proof-ready-to-go-rpi-aes-streamer.10471

 

And then there's also something similar from Allo but no ETA yet

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/337859-shanti-dual-lps-5v-3a-5v-1-5a-187.html#post6384400

Quote

Yes we are already working on RPI4 CM

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/337859-shanti-dual-lps-5v-3a-5v-1-5a-189.html#post6391328

Quote

We are talking completely new design in order to take full advantage of PCIe 2gen connection . Expect lots of changes

 

[Confused]

@seeteeyou - many thanks for the links and comments.  I am not an expert regarding RPi's and similar and had no idea about the 40 pin GPIO issue, so this is useful to know.

 

I will read through the links and wait to see how this one develops, the Mercury Streamer looks like it might be interesting.

 

[Zauurx]

@seeteeyou - really interesting and probably a "USBridge Sig v2  like" but with which compatible OS. Because for example, the concern with the USBridge sig was the compatibility of the built-in components (ASIX ethernet driver).
Then, a case with anti-EMI treated faces and a lower price than the USBridge... and if possible a NAA OS version !

[seeteeyou]

Yes, USBridge Sig v2 could be quite interesting since it might be the only choice if we're planning to add our own USB cards via PCIe.

 

Speaking of NAA OS, I found your discussion regarding Diretta as shown below

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/39394-zauurx/?status=893&type=status

 

Then I checked their 33MB boot image and it's still REALLY small after unzipping that

 

https://www.diretta.link/download/hogehoge/diretta_raspberry_boot_sd_3.zip

ls -og
total 164440
-rw-r----- 1 134217728 Feb  9 00:03 diretta_raspberry_boot_sd_3.img
-rw-r----- 1  34166275 Feb  8 15:28 diretta_raspberry_boot_sd_3.zip

 

I guess that maybe they also worked pretty hard on optimizing the distro / kernel etc. then?

 

---

 

Since this thread should be all about best sound quality, I'd like to highlight the importance of vibration control and here's something posted on FB back in early February 2021

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/149414109857805/permalink/179358363530046

Quote

Although it is our policy not to mention anything about sound quality, the difference from a normal aluminium case is so huge!

 

And then someone else further confirmed that in late February 2021 after spending 750 bucks on triple (#1 = file server, #2 = LMS, #3 = Squeezelite) solid copper cases

 

https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?13157-piCorePlayer6-1-0-Xenomai-44-1-48KHz雙機入門簡易安裝教學&p=243512#post243512

 

It's been completely sold out since then, that's why we've been looking for other alternatives such as using their Public CAD Models available here

 

https://wickedaluminum.com/collections/sbpccases/products/raspberry-pi-4-standard-case-with-heat-dissipation

https://www.barchdesigns.com/STEPfiles/RPI 4 Standard Case Top (version 7-28-2019).step

https://www.barchdesigns.com/STEPfiles/RPI 4 Standard Case Bottom (version 7-28-2019).step

 

Unfortunately we couldn't gather enough interests to keep the costs down with a group buy

 

https://www.3dhubs.com/manufacture/?technology=cnc-machining&material=copper

 

Copper 110 Case Top

 

Copper C110 Case Bottom

 

Copper C101 Case Top

 

Copper C101 Case Bottom

[Miska]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Speaking of NAA OS, I found your discussion regarding Diretta as shown below

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/39394-zauurx/?status=893&type=status

 

Then I checked their 33MB boot image and it's still REALLY small after unzipping that

 

https://www.diretta.link/download/hogehoge/diretta_raspberry_boot_sd_3.zip

ls -og
total 164440
-rw-r----- 1 134217728 Feb  9 00:03 diretta_raspberry_boot_sd_3.img
-rw-r----- 1  34166275 Feb  8 15:28 diretta_raspberry_boot_sd_3.zip

 

I guess that maybe they also worked pretty hard on optimizing the distro / kernel etc. then?

 

Depends on what kind of hardware they want to support. Lot of space on my images go to firmware binaries for various hardware like ethernet and WiFi adapters. In most cases it is just unused data, since it is very unlikely you'd need all of the firmware files. Maybe just one or two at most.

 

[Le dom]

Hi,

does NAA OS support DACs such as Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 V2 SE 10th anniversary?

[lotusaurus]

I'm finally working on upgrading to HQPlayer and after finally understanding what an NAA does, I've been trying to work out the best approach. I have HQP on my desktop and need to attach an NAA to one of two possible DACs. One is a Parasound Halo Integrated Amp (the original one, not the HINT6) which has a built-in DAC (ESS Sabre Reference ES9018K2M) that supports DSD Native (direct DSD - not DoP) up to DSD256. The other is a TEAC UD-501, which has dual Burr-Brown PCM1795 chips, and supports DSD Native up to DSD128. Both require USB connections to support the maximum DSD rate.

 

I have no idea whether the Parasound with DSD256 or TEAC with dual DACs but limited to DSD128 will sound better, but I thought I would be able to test them by connecting both to a NAA. The NAA can connect directly to both devices via USB, then from the Parasound amp I select either USB to get the Parasound DAC or Input1 for the TEAC (which is connected via RCA). (I believe I can't run both DACs simultaneously from HQP; it's just that the same amp will be used.)

 

Some people have said that Windows ASIO drivers can produce better sound than Linux-based drivers, and both devices have ASIO drivers, so I tried setting up a Win10 based NAA (Surface Pro 3). I installed and ran the Windows Network Audio Daemon. The problem is that the Parasound Windows ASIO driver just never worked. It seemed to install OK, but I could never get direct DSD output to the Parasound DAC. I tried HQP, foobar2000 and JRiver. The TEAC driver worked fine.

 

As an alternative, I tried running the x64 naa image, booting off a USB stick. In HQP the default output mode was set to SDM (DSD) in Settings. Under SDM Defaults I use ASDM7 and 44.1k x 128. No problem playing DSD through the TEAC, but couldn't get any DSD out of the Parasound. In fact when naa:Parasound was set, as soon as I clicked on the dsf track in HQP to start playing, it switched the mode (in the Track info box next to the album cover) to PCM and I could see under Format in the Time box that the DSD file was being output at 384k (which was the PCM output setting). So no DSD at all.

 

So I thought, OK, maybe a problem with Linux drivers. Booted Volumio off a USB stick and now the Parasound is fine, but, would you believe it, the TEAC fails to play anything. (I read that in the past there was a problem with Linux and the TEAC UD-501.)

 

Finally, I dug up an old Asus EEE laptop, which has an Atom CPU and runs Win 7 Starter Edition. This is incredibly slow, especially when I had to do all the updates. BUT I could install ASIO drivers for both the Parasound and the TEAC and with the Network Audio Daemon running, I could use that as an NAA and HQP ran as expected - native DSD up to the maximum of each DAC.

 

So right now it looks as if a Windows 7 PC is not just my best choice, it's my only choice if I want to compare the DACs as directly as possible. (This post is already too long - I won't go through everything I tried with a RPi3 - NAA image, RoPieee, Dietpi - and anyway, I believe with Ethernet/USB issues the RPi3 is not the best choice.)

 

Have I missed something? I was slightly surprised that Volumio is able to handle the Parasound when the naa image is unable to. I know very little about Linux, but I thought the drivers (or whatever the equivalent is) would be very similar under both Volumio and the naa image, since they're both Linux-based.

[Miska]

You can maybe get DSD to Parasound from NAA OS by using DoP as SDM Pack method. Although it will likely limit your rate options.

 

[vgrubb]

I am using HQPlayer Embedded on an Audiolinux server. I would like to use a bootable naa image on my naa. It is a Supermicro mb with an i3 processor. I’m not sure what image to use. Can someone give guidance?

Thanks

[luisma]

3 hours ago, vgrubb said:

Can someone give guidance?

I think this will be yours

https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/images/naa-4112-x64.7z

 

[vgrubb]

Thanks luisma.

 

[lotusaurus]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:51 AM, Miska said:

You can maybe get DSD to Parasound from NAA OS by using DoP as SDM Pack method. Although it will likely limit your rate options.

 

 

When I try DoP everything looks OK in HQP (seems to be playing) but there's no sound (either at 44.1K x 128 or 44.1K x 256). Without DoP, I just get the 384K stream. In NAA I do get some error messages like: "couldn't bind with audio component". I've attached a photo of the NAA screen, in case that helps.

[lotusaurus]

I've picked up some impressions from reading this forum, but some might have been old posts, and I'm not sure whether they're correct:

1.  Windows ASIO drivers are better than Linux audio drivers in terms of sound quality (in which case being able to run Windows on the NAA is important)
2.  Usually for Linux you don't need DAC-specific drivers; Linux includes the necessary support in the kernel
3.  You need a DAC that is at least DSD256-capable to get the best out of HQP, but DSD512 is preferable (assuming your HQP machine can handle this)
4.  In HQP you should output a PCM source as PCM, and a DSD source as DSD (unless your DAC converts everything to PCM first anyway

Would appreciate any comments on this. I do understand that it comes down to how it sounds in my particular system, but I'm looking for some general guidance.

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, lotusaurus said:

I've picked up some impressions from reading this forum, but some might have been old posts, and I'm not sure whether they're correct:

1.  Windows ASIO drivers are better than Linux audio drivers in terms of sound quality (in which case being able to run Windows on the NAA is important)
2.  Usually for Linux you don't need DAC-specific drivers; Linux includes the necessary support in the kernel
3.  You need a DAC that is at least DSD256-capable to get the best out of HQP, but DSD512 is preferable (assuming your HQP machine can handle this)
4.  In HQP you should output a PCM source as PCM, and a DSD source as DSD (unless your DAC converts everything to PCM first anyway

Would appreciate any comments on this. I do understand that it comes down to how it sounds in my particular system, but I'm looking for some general guidance.

 

 

 

 

 

1. No. 
2. Yes. 
3. No. 
4. No. 

[lotusaurus]

Thanks for the answers. Unfortunately it means I have no good reason to upgrade anything 😉

[seeteeyou]

On 4/19/2021 at 2:01 PM, AudioDoctor said:

Wow, I'm impressed.

 

It turned out to cost 850 RMB or roughly 130 bucks without 54 MHz OCXO clock

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=643286972960

 

SMA jack could be requested for the sake of connecting to an external 54 MHz OCXO clock, here's a potential solution from TeraDak and obviously both items are required

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=595681552946

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=619823458648

 

And then we could also go for SiT5711A (i.e. same OCXO clock as the ones found on both JCAT USB / NET Card XE) but the frequency must be 54 MHz

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=585481394277

 

±5ppb version

 

https://www.rfmw.com/products/detail/sit5711aikw33n54000000-sitime/678409/

 

±8ppb version

 

https://www.avnet.com/shop/apac/products/sitime/sit5711ai-kx-33n-54000000-3074457345644549120/

[AudioDoctor]

9 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

It turned out to cost 850 RMB or roughly 130 bucks without 54 MHz OCXO clock

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=643286972960

 

SMA jack could be requested for the sake of connecting to an external 54 MHz OCXO clock, here's a potential solution from TeraDak and obviously both items are required

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=595681552946

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=619823458648

 

And then we could also go for SiT5711A (i.e. same OCXO clock as the ones found on both JCAT USB / NET Card XE) but the frequency must be 54 MHz

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=585481394277

 

±5ppb version

 

https://www.rfmw.com/products/detail/sit5711aikw33n54000000-sitime/678409/

 

±8ppb version

 

https://www.avnet.com/shop/apac/products/sitime/sit5711ai-kx-33n-54000000-3074457345644549120/

 

Will these be easily available in the US?