What angle do you have for speaker positions?

[semente]

9 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

The manual also has very detailed and specific instructions regarding placement with respect to walls, and vertical angle (which is adjustable).

 

I've purchased a calibrated mic and stand, and will get around to using it one of these months or years when I have the time. 🙂 I would use it to tweak room placement, but currently feel it's unlikely I'd use EQ software.

 

I downloaded the manual sometime ago at your suggestion, need to reread it.

[esldude]

Vandersteens use 1st order crossovers.

[marce]

2 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

I'd love to see classical music fans moshing, headbanging or at least pogoing during a concert  

Ah classical, to be savoured in a sombre fashion... Stuff like the Soldiers chorus from Faust or Mozarts 40th and many other pieces make me wanna boogie.

[marce]

I forgot to say I'm a serial foot tapper....

[sphinxsix]

30 minutes ago, marce said:

I forgot to say I'm a serial foot tapper....

 

Some made their career on it. Haven't you thought about it.? 

 

 

[fas42]

17 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

seconds before I come upon a busker it's not the absence of harsh etc that leads me to identify live music it's... euh, liveliness, that is speed, integration/coherence of the whole frequency range

 

Exactly ... however you want to describe that sensation, it's what the goal is, or should be, for an audio rig. If the latter succeeds in projecting that quality, then the angles involved are completely irrelevant.

 

For the sake of completeness, the audio friend I visited yesterday does a big fat zero about this room, LP stuff. He laughs about the fact that the rooms are "completely wrong" - in one the speakers are roughly in the middle of the usable space; in the other they are literally bolted to the end wall ...

[semente]

On 5/31/2019 at 6:45 PM, esldude said:

Vandersteens use 1st order crossovers.

 

I know that. How is that relevant?

[esldude]

18 hours ago, semente said:

 

I know that. How is that relevant?

1st order crossovers necessarily cause off axis lobing.  So needing to toe in or out to balance perceived frequency response of the direct vs reflected sound is more likely.  Because off axis the response is very uneven. 

 

Here is the Vandy Treo.

Horizontal and then vertical.  Vertical peaks and dips off axis are worse.  

 

As a counterpoint here is a Revel F228 be which smoother laterally and very even vertically.  It uses 4th order crossovers. 

[semente]

5 hours ago, esldude said:

1st order crossovers necessarily cause off axis lobing.  So needing to toe in or out to balance perceived frequency response of the direct vs reflected sound is more likely.  Because off axis the response is very uneven. 

 

Here is the Vandy Treo.

Horizontal and then vertical.  Vertical peaks and dips off axis are worse. 

 

I see what you mean now.

 

I think that your post substantiates my opinion that "This (the Vandersteen manual, which calls for little if any toe-in) sounds like a strange recomendation to make since Jud's speakers are flattest on-axis."

 

[esldude]

12 hours ago, semente said:

 

I see what you mean now.

 

I think that your post substantiates my opinion that "This (the Vandersteen manual, which calls for little if any toe-in) sounds like a strange recomendation to make since Jud's speakers are flattest on-axis."

 

I forget which version Jud has (wasn't it 2CE and now 3A). More recent Vandersteens are just slightly elevated at 10 khz and above.  So perhaps being a little off axis is a flatter result.  Still potentially problematic with the lobing.  The audibility of lobing can be odd.  We hear peaks and don't always pickup on dips.  

 

The reason to have 1st order crossovers is phase coherence and the ability to do a decent square wave or step response.  Usually that is only along one plane or narrow axis.  So not sure you really get that if you are off axis.  

 

In any case Vandy's can sound very good and many people are happy with them. 

[Ralf11]

I was very happy with mine...  I just checked an old photo and the things were facing straight ahead.

[gmgraves]

On 5/28/2019 at 9:42 PM, esldude said:

Pretty simple.  From the listening position what is the angle between your stereo speakers? 

 

Might be nice to know the distance you sit from them as well.  If you want to list speaker type that would be nice. 

 

To prevent confusion some people might say plus and minus 30 degrees for speakers that create a total 60 degree angle.  Or they might say the speakers form an angle of 60 degrees.  Just be clear which way you are looking at it.  Both of these illustrations are for the same speaker placement.  60 degrees or +/- 30 degrees. 

 

 

 

I only have my Martin-Logan ESLs at only about 20 degrees, but I set fairly close as my system “fires” across the narrow dimension of my listening room. 

 

 

[PeterSt]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

I only have my Martin-Logan ESLs at only about 20 degrees

 

George, your camera tilt looks to be (-)20 degrees. Speakers merely look like 35 or so. But a bit hard to see and no big deal to begin with. It is about the camera. 

 

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

but I set fairly close

 

Sit. And on estimate the speakers beam right towards you. But that is a bit of guessing.

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

George, your camera tilt looks to be (-)20 degrees. Speakers merely look like 35 or so. But a bit hard to see and no big deal to begin with. It is about the camera. 

Well, I took it with the same iPad that I am using to respond to this thread. I had to hold it above my head and behind me in my listening chair which is a quite contorted camera position.🤪

Quote

Sit. And on estimate the speakers beam right towards you. But that is a bit of guessing.

Yes, Sit. But they aren’t pointing  directly at me but they are optimum from an imaging point of view.

 

Is this point of view straighter?

 

BTW, the grillwork behind the equipment stand is not a heater. It’s the closet where the hot water heater (a tankless on-demand unit) is housed.

[PeterSt]

9 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

the same iPad that I am using to respond to this thread. I had to hold it above my head and behind me

 

This will be a new discotheque trend !

And then text something. 

[STC]

18 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Well, I took it with the same iPad that I am using to respond to this thread. I had to hold it above my head and behind me in my listening chair

 

Then it is not 20 degree. The distance from speaker to speaker is about 1.2 the height of the ML. From the angle of your picture, it looks like you are also sitting around the same distance. It looks like 60 degrees to me. 

[Ralf11]

George - with a flat screen TV uncovered in between the speakers, you are as bad as I am...

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

George - with a flat screen TV uncovered in between the speakers, you are as bad as I am...

Ok. You’re gonna have to explain that to me. Why is having a flat-screen between the speakers “bad”? 

[esldude]

50 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Ok. You’re gonna have to explain that to me. Why is having a flat-screen between the speakers “bad”? 

You lose audiophile credibility points. 

 

Flat reflective surface between speakers effects imaging negatively or so the conventional wisdom goes. 

 

Plus you lose additional audiophile credibility points because it indicates you may adulterate your pure audio experience by also having video included. 

[Ralf11]

we -should- toss a blanket over the screen

 

I never have, but I am a bad audiophile

[HIFI]

This reminds me of Shoots An Ladders 😳

[Ralf11]

Shoots and Adders is much more exciting

[GregWormald]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

we -should- toss a blanket over the screen

 

I never have, but I am a bad audiophile

 

I've never been able to discern a difference with a blanket over the screen, but then the screen is closer to the wall than the speakers and I suspect the bass just goes around.

 

I did get tired of looking at my reflection in the shiny surface though, so now I put on a "fireplace" loop. It does seem to warm the room.😁 In the hot weather I put on an aquarium!

[Ralf11]

it's the HF that is the 'issue'

[loop7]

Zero angle/toe-in. 

 

Maybe it's the room or the Focal speakers but, after much experimentation, none is ideal.