Jump to content
JoshM

Article: The Best Version Of… Peter Gabriel’s So

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

On 5/28/2019 at 4:38 PM, ted_b said:

I've seen PG 8 or so times, the first being the Lamb tour with Genesis back in Cleveland.  I think both his tours and his albums peaked at Melt, but that's like saying the Beatles peaked at Revolver.  :)  The remaining catalog is still a treasure.  I go back and forth between the 24/48 and the SACD rip (DSF).  I am interested to hear Josh's comments (or anyone else who has both).  I often use Tony's stick and the percussion at the last minute of Don't Give Up to set up one of my comparisons.  The dsf rip seems to have a blacker background, the 2448 a warmer tone.  Both are great IMHO, especially given that my Holo treats each format differently.

 

There wasn’t a single moment that I used. I tried to consider multiple tracks and zero in on moments in those tracks that really varied between versions. The bass at 2:40 in “Red Rain” really stands out, but there are many small moments like that throughout the album that clearly illustrate the 24/48 download’s edge in clarity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JoshM said:

 

 

I actually was already planning on asking people to rank their favorite Gabriel solo albums in the comments. As much as I love So, it’s not my favorite album of his, either. I chose it because it’s his most iconic album and the mastering story/complexity was most interesting.

 

My ranking (subject to change, especially in the second half) is:

 

1) Melt

2) Security

3) So

4) Up

5) Car

5) Us

6) Scratch

 

I’m leaving out Scratch My Back and New Blood, since they’re not albums of new material, and adding them in would make things more complicated. I could draw So into a near-tie with Secruity for the number two spot, and I could also easily flip Car and Us. Scratch is definitely last for me, though, and Melt is definitely first. (I also think Up is incredibly underrated.)

 

Nice list! Security was the first Gabriel album I owned, so that might have something to do with my rankings, but at any rate, here's my list by preference - although #2-4 are very close in my book (albeit very different):

  1. Security
  2. Melt
  3. So
  4. Car
  5. Up
  6. Us

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JoshM said:

My ranking (subject to change, especially in the second half) is:

 

1) Melt

2) Security

3) So

4) Up

5) Car

5) Us

6) Scratch

 

I’m leaving out Scratch My Back and New Blood, since they’re not albums of new material, and adding them in would make things more complicated. I could draw So into a near-tie with Secruity for the number two spot, and I could also easily flip Car and Us. Scratch is definitely last for me, though, and Melt is definitely first. (I also think Up is incredibly underrated.) 

+1  If I'd written this ranking and paragraph it would have been nearly the same words!  :)  The multichannel version of UP is one of my favorite mch releases of all time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JoshM said:

My ranking (subject to change, especially in the second half) is:

 

1) Melt

2) Security

3) So

4) Up

5) Car

5) Us

6) Scratch

+1 for this ranking,

I need to admit, the most played record from Peter Gabriel in my house has always been "Plays Live", by a long distance to So and Up.
Best, Tom
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent Josh!

The Dark Side of the Moon next please.


Furutech GTX-D>J River 23>Cardas Clear USB>Wyred4Sound DAC2v2 SE>Moon Audio Blue Dragon IC>Cavalli Liquid Fire>Q French Silk Headphone cable>Audeze LCD2rev2>my ears>audiophile brain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, tmtomh said:

 

Nice list! Security was the first Gabriel album I owned, so that might have something to do with my rankings, but at any rate, here's my list by preference - although #2-4 are very close in my book (albeit very different):

  1. Security
  2. Melt
  3. So
  4. Car
  5. Up
  6. Us

 

I’m guessing Scratch is also your bottom pick, since it’s not even listed? 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, KDinsmore said:

Excellent Josh!

The Dark Side of the Moon next please.

 

Oh boy. I’ve already done some preliminary work on Dark Side, and I don’t know when I’ll be able to tackle it. Such a complicated mastering history! I have a list of about 65 albums for future TBVOs, and as far as I know DSOTM has the most masterings (or alleged masterings) of any album on the list.

 

In the mix for my next columns are the CSN couch album, one of Stevie Wonder’s ‘70s classics, and Joni Mitchell’s Blue. (So is Rumours, once I make sure I have all of the masterings.)

 

Wish You Were Here will probably be the first Floyd album I tackle and might end up leapfrogging some of the above albums. It has a very interesting mastering history, but there aren’t quite as many masterings as Dark Side. (It’s also probably my favorite Floyd album, though that’s a tough call.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Any Yes? 

 

Yes! I’m a big fan of two maligned ‘70s genres: prog and funk. So Yes is on the list. I’m not sure whether I’ll do The Yes Album, Fragile, or Close to the Edge, though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, JoshM said:

 

Yes! I’m a big fan of two maligned ‘70s genres: prog and funk. So Yes is on the list. I’m not sure whether I’ll do The Yes Album, Fragile, or Close to the Edge, though. 

 

Excellent! My simplistic view so far has been to just trust the Steven Wilson remixes, but a deeper look into any or all of those 3 would be very welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nicely timed! I'm visiting an audio friend today, who is a huge Yes fan - we have listened frequently to various albums, and some remasters. The latter are all pretty dreadful, I must say - the originals are so much richer and more rewarding; but require a setup in excellent shape to properly showcase what has actually been captured.


Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Ahhh, Mankind ... Porsche intellect, Trabant emotions ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Nicely timed! I'm visiting an audio friend today, who is a huge Yes fan - we have listened frequently to various albums, and some remasters. The latter are all pretty dreadful, I must say - the originals are so much richer and more rewarding; but require a setup in excellent shape to properly showcase what has actually been captured.

I guess the setup in excellent shape is your laptop and speakers? I couldn’t resist.


AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A fantastic analysis!

 

"24/48 hi-res download available with the box is much more dynamic than the CD included in the box"

 

I bought the Immersion Box and was worried about the remastering but the 24-48 download of So is my favorite with the 86 CD a close second. I find the Immersion Box CD pretty much an assault and unlistenable.

 

I also have the SACD and find it unremarkable.

 

The Live in Athens BRD is a masterpiece and, without a doubt, my favorite concert video; nothing else comes close. The video and sound are gold standard in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, One and a half said:

I guess the setup in excellent shape is your laptop and speakers? I couldn’t resist.

 

I don't have any setup at the moment which is in excellent shape - but that doesn't stop me appreciating efforts which aim for that standard ...

 

More on topic, this afternoon we did quite a bit of listening to Yes, specifically, Going for the One and Tormato album tracks. At peak moments of tune both came across very well.


Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Ahhh, Mankind ... Porsche intellect, Trabant emotions ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, JoshM said:

 

Yes! I’m a big fan of two maligned ‘70s genres: prog and funk. So Yes is on the list. I’m not sure whether I’ll do The Yes Album, Fragile, or Close to the Edge, though. 

Would be very interested to read your thoughts on The Yes Album, in particular the MFSL Gold CD. 

 

Have really enjoyed your articles. Great work!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, JoshM said:

 

Yes! I’m a big fan of two maligned ‘70s genres: prog and funk. So Yes is on the list. I’m not sure whether I’ll do The Yes Album, Fragile, or Close to the Edge, though. 

Definitely one of those. Their 3 best. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on "Don't give up" only I still rank the SACD first.

If I was to focus on the hint of congestion of KB's forte on the SACD and on the layering of instruments on the 24/48, I would follow Josh's opinion.

 

However I am more sensitive to the organic presence of PG's vocals and to the strong low end of the SACD and find the 24/48 boring in comparison


I❤️ HQP and convolution (REW + RePhase -- 384 Blackman -- designed filters ; correcting frequency and time domains is a must IMO and makes my comparatively cheap digital front end* sound much more "analog" than my vinyl setup) 

* minimum server Windows 2012R2 on mid 2012 15" rMacBP> (right usb port) 2.0 certified Supra > Green Regen >TEAC UD 501> (balanced output) >Cardas Golden Ref> JRRG all balanced pre> Cabasse system with clean deep LF extension via 36 cm active drivers, played live loud

 

 

 

Proofing B&K C @ -9 copie-Modifier-2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 3:38 PM, JoshM said:

I've had numerous CSN couch. My go to is still the Atlantic Gold Series Gold Disc FWIW

Oh boy. I’ve already done some preliminary work on Dark Side, and I don’t know when I’ll be able to tackle it. Such a complicated mastering history! I have a list of about 65 albums for future TBVOs, and as far as I know DSOTM has the most masterings (or alleged masterings) of any album on the list.

 

In the mix for my next columns are the CSN couch album, one of Stevie Wonder’s ‘70s classics, and Joni Mitchell’s Blue. (So is Rumours, once I make sure I have all of the masterings.)

 

Wish You Were Here will probably be the first Floyd album I tackle and might end up leapfrogging some of the above albums. It has a very interesting mastering history, but there aren’t quite as many masterings as Dark Side. (It’s also probably my favorite Floyd album, though that’s a tough call.)

 


Furutech GTX-D>J River 23>Cardas Clear USB>Wyred4Sound DAC2v2 SE>Moon Audio Blue Dragon IC>Cavalli Liquid Fire>Q French Silk Headphone cable>Audeze LCD2rev2>my ears>audiophile brain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 6:04 PM, austinpop said:

 

Excellent! My simplistic view so far has been to just trust the Steven Wilson remixes, but a deeper look into any or all of those 3 would be very welcome.

I have multiple issues of Yes and you cannot do any better than the Steven Wilson's issues in my listening experience. That goes for all the Tull releases plus the two ELP issues he did as well.


Furutech GTX-D>J River 23>Cardas Clear USB>Wyred4Sound DAC2v2 SE>Moon Audio Blue Dragon IC>Cavalli Liquid Fire>Q French Silk Headphone cable>Audeze LCD2rev2>my ears>audiophile brain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/28/2019 at 1:29 PM, Jud said:

Well, but aargh.  I love the album, but I'm not going to spend nearly $100 and email the website store to get a nice download (plus getting a lot of extra physical media for which I won't have much use).

Amen Jud, I'm with you and the others. I not paying that kind of money to then have to jump thru hoops to acquire the download.

"While it might take some effort, it’s absolutely worth it to hear the superlative version of So".

Sorry Josh, but IMHO it's in no way worth the $ and effort.  fuhgeddaboudit  :)

 

You can hear the 2012 remasters balance etc by listening to the Spotify stream of the 2012 remaster. But then you have to accept the 320kbps compression.

So times you just can't win. :(

 


"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"

Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

no-mqa-sm.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding my voice to those above, absolutely outstanding article on one of my favorite albums. Ranking it in the Gabriel hierarchy is always a difficult challenge. Really superb work though. 

 

My vote for Yes, also one of my most cherished bands, prog fan that I am, would be for Close To The Edge. I could easily understand you alternately deciding to go with Fragile though. 

 

JC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...