Article: The Best Version Of… Peter Gabriel’s So

[TubeLover]

Also, it appears I truly need that 12 hi res transfer to own the best version of this classic album, despite owning the original cd, and the SACD. I will now apparently be dropping the $100.00 or so on the 25th Anniversary box to get it........

 

JC 

[Johnny Moondog]

"...the TBVO crown for Peter Gabriel’s So is resoundingly awarded to the ‘12 hi-res download."

 

Great article! But by the time I got to the punch line I'd lost track of the contenders. Perhaps due to a late night read.

 

I purchased the collection of 180 gram Vinyl 45RPM Half-Speed Remasters specifically to get access to the the Hi-Res Download Cards that were included. (Peter Gabriel 1, Peter Gabriel 2, Peter Gabriel 3, Peter Gabriel 4, So, Up, Us). I don't own a turntable.

 

Are those downloads the same as the TBVO crown quoted above?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

P.S. those LPs are available for sale if anyone's interested. They've never been played and I never got around to listing them anywhere.

[Josh Mound]

2 hours ago, Johnny Moondog said:

"...the TBVO crown for Peter Gabriel’s So is resoundingly awarded to the ‘12 hi-res download."

 

Great article! But by the time I got to the punch line I'd lost track of the contenders. Perhaps due to a late night read.

 

I purchased the collection of 180 gram Vinyl 45RPM Half-Speed Remasters specifically to get access to the the Hi-Res Download Cards that were included. (Peter Gabriel 1, Peter Gabriel 2, Peter Gabriel 3, Peter Gabriel 4, So, Up, Us). I don't own a turntable.

 

Are those downloads the same as the TBVO crown quoted above?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

P.S. those LPs are available for sale if anyone's interested. They've never been played and I never got around to listing them anywhere.

 

The ‘16 download I mention is the one that camemwith the vinyl. 

 

Speaking of which, someone over at SHF told me they were sent that ‘16 24/96 download when they submitted the code from their 25th anniversary box. If that happens, make sure you email back Real World and say you want the 25th anniversary 24/48 download.

[copy_of_a]

@JoshM - really, really great  ... not only really interessting and fun to read but also animated me to listen to a few Gabriel albums the last days again.

 

As far as the ranking of the albums I have a slightly different take. "Melt" and "Security" are classics of the past while "So" was directed to the future ... and still is somehow fresh, modern and inspiring even today. Which also has to do with the sound and the overall atmosphere and attitude of the album.

And yes, the 2012 48/24 version is absolutley gorgeous (but the original 1986 CD is still impressive).

 

For me personally the ranking would be:

1. So

2. Us

3. probably Ovo - for "Low Light", "Father, Son" and "Make Tomorrow" (with the incredibly touching voice of Paul Buchanan)

...

I love all his albums, though ... but I also listen to "Scratch" pretty rarely (once in 2 years or so?).

Fortunately we don't have to make a ranking 🙂

 

Many thanks for the article!

 

On 5/28/2019 at 10:38 PM, ted_b said:

I often use Tony's stick and the percussion at the last minute of Don't Give Up to set up one of my comparisons.

Bass. On this track he doesn't play the Stick.

 

[Josh Mound]

On 6/4/2019 at 4:51 PM, JoshM said:

 

The ‘16 download I mention is the one that camemwith the vinyl. 

 

Speaking of which, someone over at SHF told me they were sent that ‘16 24/96 download when they submitted the code from their 25th anniversary box. If that happens, make sure you email back Real World and say you want the 25th anniversary 24/48 download.

 

I emailed with Matt Osborne at Real World. He says there must have been a mix up with the files and that he’d make sure it gets fixed. He also said that anyone who got the ‘16 24/96 files should email Real World back and they’d make sure you get the 25th 24/48 files.

[Josh Mound]

2 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

@JoshM - really, really great  ... not only really interessting and fun to read but also animated me to listen to a few Gabriel albums the last days again.

 

As far as the ranking of the albums I have a slightly different take. "Melt" and "Security" are classics of the past while "So" was directed to the future ... and still is somehow fresh, modern and inspiring even today. Which also has to do with the sound and the overall atmosphere and attitude of the album.

And yes, the 2012 48/24 version is absolutley gorgeous (but the original 1986 CD is still impressive).

 

For me personally the ranking would be:

1. So

2. Us

3. probably Ovo - for "Low Light", "Father, Son" and "Make Tomorrow" (with the incredibly touching voice of Paul Buchanan)

...

I love all his albums, though ... but I also listen to "Scratch" pretty rarely (once in 2 years or so?).

Fortunately we don't have to make a ranking 🙂

 

Many thanks for the article!

 

Bass. On this track he doesn't play the Stick.

 

 

I didn’t even think of including Ovo, but you’re right that it has some of his best work on it. 

 

I think the issue with Scratch is that Gabriel is one of the perhaps rare artists whose work gets better (rather than more overcooked) the more he works on it. In hindsight, Fripp’s spontaneous methods just weren’t a good match. 

[Jud]

2 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

Bass. On this track he doesn't play the Stick.

 

Very interesting, I always thought he had, but apparently it's overdubbed fretless. (Edit: At least the solo at the end.)

[Johnny Moondog]

On 6/4/2019 at 1:51 PM, JoshM said:

 

The ‘16 download I mention is the one that camemwith the vinyl. 

 

Speaking of which, someone over at SHF told me they were sent that ‘16 24/96 download when they submitted the code from their 25th anniversary box. If that happens, make sure you email back Real World and say you want the 25th anniversary 24/48 download.

 

Thank you Josh.

 

I looked closely at the files on my archive drive, and was surprised to find two copies of So. Somehow I'd completely forgotten about this.

 

PG1 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/01/15)
PG2 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/01/15)
PG3 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/09/15)
PG4 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/02/15)
So (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 08/04/16)
So (FLAC 24/48, Remastered 2012, Date Created 10/15/12)
Up (WAVE 24/44, Date Created 08/04/16)
Us (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 08/04/16)

 

When I purchased the collection of 180 gram Vinyl  45RPM Half-Speed Remasters with Hi-Res Download Cards, the downloads resulted in .zip files that unpacked into WAVE files.

 

So I must have purchased the FLAC version of So independently, and probably before (?) the Vinyl Collection was made available.

 

Does that look like the correct one?

 

Thanks!

[copy_of_a]

 

3 hours ago, JoshM said:

I think the issue with Scratch is that Gabriel is one of the perhaps rare artists whose work gets better (rather than more overcooked) the more he works on it. In hindsight, Fripp’s spontaneous methods just weren’t a good match. 

quite possible - good point!

 

6 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

For me personally the ranking would be:

1. So

2. Us

3. probably Ovo - for "Low Light", "Father, Son" and "Make Tomorrow" (with the incredibly touching voice of Paul Buchanan)

damn ... confused "Us" and "Up".

But also like "Us" a lot ... so who cares 😌

 

[Josh Mound]

2 hours ago, Johnny Moondog said:

 

Thank you Josh.

 

I looked closely at the files on my archive drive, and was surprised to find two copies of So. Somehow I'd completely forgotten about this.

 

PG1 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/01/15)
PG2 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/01/15)
PG3 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/09/15)
PG4 (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 04/02/15)
So (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 08/04/16)
So (FLAC 24/48, Remastered 2012, Date Created 10/15/12)
Up (WAVE 24/44, Date Created 08/04/16)
Us (WAVE 24/96, Date Created 08/04/16)

 

When I purchased the collection of 180 gram Vinyl  45RPM Half-Speed Remasters with Hi-Res Download Cards, the downloads resulted in .zip files that unpacked into WAVE files.

 

So I must have purchased the FLAC version of So independently, and probably before (?) the Vinyl Collection was made available.

 

Does that look like the correct one?

 

Thanks!

 

Yes, that’s the 25th hi-res. It was also sold briefly sold as a standalone download from a B&W site that no longer exists. 

[nsxelent]

Thanks Josh for the outstanding work!!  I really appreciate the technical comparisons of each version.  I have several different versions of this title, including a few vinyl rips, and the 2012 hi-res version is my favorite too.

 

Look forward to your next project.

[lucretius]

On 6/7/2019 at 5:10 PM, JoshM said:

 

Yes, that’s the 25th hi-res. It was also sold briefly sold as a standalone download from a B&W site that no longer exists. 

 I thought it was a freebie from B&W.

[lucretius]

Many thanks for the article!

 

I have the 2012 24/48 download.  You caused me to play it again!

 

Recently, I picked up the 1986 CD at a thrift store.  Can't wait to hear it.

[Josh Mound]

On 6/22/2019 at 3:02 PM, nsxelent said:

Thanks Josh for the outstanding work!!  I really appreciate the technical comparisons of each version.  I have several different versions of this title, including a few vinyl rips, and the 2012 hi-res version is my favorite too.

 

Look forward to your next project.

 

It’s going to be the CSN “couch” album. Just interviewed the great Bill Halverson, the album’s eneginner, yesterday.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, JoshM said:

 

It’s going to be the CSN “couch” album. Just interviewed the great Bill Halverson, the album’s eneginner, yesterday.

Cool, I have several digital versions of this and the original vinyl. 
My original exposure to it was on an 8 track tape in the car of a friends older brother. It was basically the only thing he played anytime he drove us anywhere. I think I heard it hundreds of times that way....And I still like it. 

I'm sort of assuming you won't be including that 8 Track version in your  survey. 

[Josh Mound]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

Cool, I have several digital versions of this and the original vinyl. 
My original exposure to it was on an 8 track tape in the car of a friends older brother. It was basically the only thing he played anytime he drove us anywhere. I think I heard it hundreds of times that way....And I still like it. 

I'm sort of assuming you won't be including that 8 Track version in your  survey. 

 

Believe it or not, I have fond memories of listening to it on an old 8 Track in my parents’ basement (usually while pretending to be Ghostbusters with my best friend) when I was a kid. Sadly, my audio memory isn’t quite that long in terms of a mastering comparison! 

[YashN]

I have a hard time here finding the best version of 'Security'. I have a couple of CDs and the sound seems lacking, rolled-off.

[fas42]

10 hours ago, YashN said:

I have a hard time here finding the best version of 'Security'. I have a couple of CDs and the sound seems lacking, rolled-off.

 

My copy seems to be from Germany; Charisma, Virgin, PGCD4, 800 091-2, 1984 - no problems with this; massive sound, as good as it gets.

 

I got onto this because a friend of the family brought a copy to try out - he used it to "destroy" fancy rigs in hifi stores, where the salesman turned up the volume for the beginning track ... only to find ...

[sdl2112]

I too am wondering what is the best version of Security. I have the remaster CD from 2010 but wondering if the 24/96 download with the half speed album would top it. I really like this album and one of the more dynamic...I always want more/better. Thanks.

[peter73]

VERY impressive research!

However, I beg to disagree with some of the conclusions. The initial 1986 CD's sound quite different from each other (Austria, Europe, Japan etc.) and the difference is not only in the peak levels. The CD with peak levels of -2.40dB/0.758606 has the highest dynamic range as well - Mercy Street has a RMS of 20.97dB. While I am not a DR fetishist, coincidentally I find this to be the best sounding digital release of this album, including compared to the 24/48 2012 release, which is second best, IMO. On all other releases PG's voice sounds somewhat processed, muffled, forward or deeper into the mix. My favourite CD (-2.40dB/0.758606) is also the one that is closest to the original LP that I have. Yes, it may be perceived as a bit shrill, but the reason is in your research - the initially defective mic they used to record PG's voice.

This is the DR log of my proffered digital version:
foobar2000 1.4.6 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2019-09-19 08:18:04

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Peter Gabriel / So
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -2.40 dB -15.16 dB 5:40 01-Red Rain
DR11 -2.40 dB -15.75 dB 5:16 02-Sledgehammer
DR11 -2.40 dB -18.12 dB 6:33 03-Don't Give Up
DR12 -2.40 dB -17.82 dB 4:53 04-That Voice Again
DR12 -2.40 dB -17.76 dB 5:30 05-In Your Eyes
DR12 -3.27 dB -20.97 dB 6:21 06-Mercy Street
DR12 -2.40 dB -15.66 dB 4:29 07-Big Time
DR12 -2.40 dB -18.19 dB 3:22 08-We Do What We're Told milgram's 37
DR15 -2.40 dB -19.11 dB 4:19 09-This Is the Picture excellent birds

[db2]

It looks like HDTracks has started selling a 24/96 download of So, saying it is the "2012" remaster.  Does anyone know if this is based on the 24/48 remaster praised here, with sound quality at least as good?

[Josh Mound]

On 12/15/2019 at 12:22 PM, db2 said:

It looks like HDTracks has started selling a 24/96 download of So, saying it is the "2012" remaster.  Does anyone know if this is based on the 24/48 remaster praised here, with sound quality at least as good?

I believe these are the same as the 2016 vinyl download, not the 2012 25th download, but I want to double check before saying for certain. 

[db2]

Hi, just checking in.  Were you able to confirm whether its the 2016 vinyl download?

 

Thanks,

David

[Josh Mound]

On 12/25/2019 at 8:44 AM, db2 said:

Hi, just checking in.  Were you able to confirm whether its the 2016 vinyl download?

 

Thanks,

David

 

Sorry for the delay. Busy holidays and was just finishing up the next TBVO! 

 

I've confirmed that the new So download is the same as the 2016 vinyl download.

[db2]

Thanks. Though that is disappointing news, I appreciate very much your finding it out.