Rendu Support Thread

[sockpit]

Hi all,

 

I'm a relative newcomer to computer audio, and I thought a thread for other newbies making the transition to microRendu, NAS, etc. might be helpful. We'll see.

 

I've purchased a microRendu to try and have been reading threads here at CA for months about it, but now I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by the task that lies before me. I imagine it will arrive late this week, if I'm lucky.

 

The purpose of such a thread is to provide relatively non-technical advice for those transitioning from computer (Macbook Pro in my case) based playback (via A+) to integrating microRendu into their systems. In my case, I'd like solutions that are elegant and simple but not shortsighted. I'd like to begin with what I have on hand and wade slowly into a NAS based solution. My end goal is to have something I'll want to live with for a few years. I'm not a compulsive tweaker--yet.

 

Here is my chain: 2013 Powerbook Pro using Audirvana+ 2.5--> USB --> --> RUR -->Exogal Comet DAC --> power amp --> speakers. Simple.

 

I only have about 200MB of music on the SSD of the Powerbook. System sounds great; A+ is a snap to use. As long as Tidal is in business, I probably won't be purchasing much more music, so my storage needs are modest and not likely to balloon.

 

I think it best if I pose one question or related cluster of questions at a time, and my hope is that others in my position might benefit by the answers. Please keep the above and my newbie status in mind. I'd rather the answers not get into sectarian battles, and prefer that I receive sound information and advice by those far more competent than I am so that I can successfully wade into the world of servers, renderers, streamers, NAS, etc.

 

So here is my first question (and I realize it has been covered here in there in the major microRendu thread, but I'd like to gather the sensible answers here):

 

My listening room has no ethernet cabling running into it (other rooms do). There seem to be three options I've read about. I'm biased the third right now.

 

1) get an electrician to run a Cat 5 or 6 cable into that room. Possible but difficult.

2) use a powerline adaptor kit to extend ethernet into the listening room

3) buy an Airport Extreme

 

1) and 2) don't thrill me given the layout of my place (regarding 1) and the potential noise issues 2) might introduce.

 

The Airport Extreme is attractive because it would strengthen my wifi coverage throughout the house, and, I hope, give me a place to connect the microRendu into the network. But will it work without (significant) compromise to SQ (assuming the network is otherwise strong)?

 

I'm lucky to live in a place with Google Fiber 1 Gig service, and so far I've been able to stream Tidal just fine as my kid watches Netflix, my wife surfs internet, etc.

 

So the question: Does 3) seem like a fine choice? My assumption is that I'd run an ethernet cable between it and the microRendu, which would connect it to the same network my computer or an eventual NAS is on. Do I have this correct?

 

Thanks!

[sockpit]

Thank you David. Very helpful to get confirmation on this. I don't anticipate needing more LAN ports.

 

I did mean GB not MB on my collection size.

 

So here is the next question for anyone willing to nurse me along: I believe I'm going to have to install some software on the MacBook (other than Audirvana) to make it "serve" the music to the microRendu over the network. Is this where Minimserver comes in by chance? And, if so, does it allow you to control song selection, etc. from my iPad?

Again: sorry for beginning at the beginning, but I suspect there are a few more newbies out there who could benefit from such an elementary thread.

A second software question is/will be: Since I've tried Roon, and am not at this time interested in subscribing, what are my most simple and effective routes to getting Tidal running through the microRendu? With as few SQ compromises as possible

[sockpit]

Thank you for your reply, baddog.

 

My router is a Google Fiber "network box" designed, I believe, to work optimally with their 1 Gig fiber feed to my house. That box feeds a wired cat 5 network in my condo. At the end of one of those wires upstairs and out of sight is a Time Capsule (fourth generation). So its hardwired to the Google router and is set up to broadcast dual-band wi-fi through my home, which it does very well. For this reason the Airport Extreme seemed like an easy add on to give me the connectivity in my listening room (downstairs) I need for the microRendu.

 

My largest concern now is not so much setting up a NAS (since my Macbook holds my little collection just fine). It's learning how to stream Tidal through the microRendu without having the benefit of A+ that I'm loving. I do not want to subscribe to Roon, which appears to be the easiest way for the microRendu to be Tidal ready.

 

What caught my eye about the microRendu was its promise of SQ and isolation of computer noise from my DAC. But now I see this could get complicated

 

Thanks again. Will study the thread you referenced.

[sockpit]

@john - Airplay playback is usually constrained to just redbook quality files ( in fact devices such as the Apple TV play all audio at 16/48 ). FWIW.

 

Yes, I think this is correct. So John's suggestion was to select the Shareport Output on the microRendu and send the music wirelessly to it from my MacBook Pro using A+.

 

Does this mean the microRendu doesn't require an wired ethernet connection coming in? Again, apologies for my ignorance.

 

What John suggests would be a good way for a newbie like me who enjoy's A+ with Tidal to get started with minimal fussing and complications. Will I get the microRendu's full benefit (or most of it) this way?

[sockpit]

So if you already have Wifi with an Apple router, then you have two options. You can go with an Apple Extreme ( firth generation ) and use it to extend the network established by your Time Capsule. This will be at the cost of overall network bandwidth ( impact of now having the Time Capsule and Extreme communicating to each other via wireless connection - if you could connect them via ethernet you would not face this issue). The upsides are it can in theory extend the range of your WiFi in your home and will allow you to have a few extra ethernet ports.

 

Alternatively if you really are only looking at a manner to connect your micorRendu to your network than an Apple Express is a far better solution. It is both more cost effective and can be configured to not have the overall bandwidth impact to your wireless network by setting it to client mode. In client mode it will NOT extend your wireless network, no other clients will be able to access it other than the device you plug into it via ethernet.

 

I do believe that if you set up the microRendu in the following mode that you should be able to both stream music from your Macbook as well as Tidal using a combination of Miminserver, and BubbleUPnP on your Macbook, Linn Kazoo on your iPad to control playback.

 

This is the mode I am referring to, note I do not yet have a microRendu, so this is theoretical at the moment, however I don't see any reason it would not work:

 

Mode #3a - DLNA Output - This output utilizes streams from UPNP/DLNA servers and controllers. This output can be configured as an OpenHome renderer. This output supports true gapless playback of PCM, DSD/DoP, and native DSD.

 

Thanks for further advise. I do own a first generation Airport Express (802.11n). It has a single ethernet out jack. It is currently in "join a wireless network" mode, which sounds like your "client" mode. Might it be all I need? Only the microrendu would be plugged in then. Is that fine?

[sockpit]

"and you have veered wild into at what I would guess to be an unsupported configure from Sonore."

 

This is the last thing I want to do . . . ! Will study the above before asking more questions.

[sockpit]

It's pretty old. Airport utility says its first generation 802.11n, i.e., this one: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP1?locale=en_US

 

I currently have it Toslink cabled to my DAC, so when I want to use my MBP out of reach of my USB I can send it via Airport output setting in A+. It works, but I occasionally heart small clicks or hiccups that annoy.

 

In it setup settings you can choose between "joining", "creating," and "extending" a network. I picked "join" which is, I think what you call "client."

 

Will try your suggested experiment after dinner. Thanks.

[sockpit]

Baddog,

 

Experiment successful. Old AE --> ethernet cable --> Apple usb/ethernet converter dongle (since apple phased out ethernet port on my MBP) --> MBP gives me a good internet connection.

 

I did a speed test at a site hosted by google fiber and got about 20 mbps download and upload speeds. I don't know enough about these things to know if that's any good. Clearly its just a fraction of the 1 gb Google Fiber promises, but it's over wifi.

[sockpit]

Barr,

 

Dramatically better by a factor of 10. About 200 mbps up and down.

 

Keep in mind this is wi-fi created by a much newer Time Capsule (w/dual band wifi). It's a fourth generation 802.11n model with 2TB of backup storage. It upstairs from my MBP and stereo room about 25 ft away if a crow could fly through walls.

 

The TC upstairs has plenty of ethernet out jacks, and I thought that might be a place to put a future simple NAS. But you might see other possibilities. (See my first post that describes my equipment and situation.)

[sockpit]

I have 200GB (I misspoke above) of music, the highest res being 24/48 from B &W club. The rest is ripped Redbook.

 

So the idea to try is, just to be clear: Run an ethernet cable between the AE (set up in client mode) and the microRendu. The MBP will be connected to the network via wi-fi (since AE has only one ethernet output). Follow microRendu set up instructions and select SharePort output. Then see if I can't use Airport feature of A+ to stream the music to the microRendu.

 

Looks like this might be a first --if it's also what John S. meant when he said: "Has anybody ever tried using the A+ airplay output specifically with Shairport? Since this would not be using iTunes nor Apple hardware on the receiving side it might just support higher rates, but probably not."

 

Thanks for all the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions and things develop!

 

[sockpit]

Ah, 200 GB, probably still not enough to land you in NAS land, unless you want to cut the tether from the Macbook.

 

Yes you have outlined the plan well.

 

BTW - in your path you indicate an RUR, what is that?

 

Here is my chain: 2013 Powerbook Pro using Audirvana+ 2.5--> USB --> --> RUR -->Exogal Comet DAC --> power amp --> speakers. Simple.

 

Wyred 4 Sound Recovery USB Reclocker--one of those many gizmos sprouting up clean up USB feed to DAC, like the Uptone Regen. Am expecting this to become redundant with the microRendu . . .

[sockpit]

OK, thanks for the good feedback. I've begun to think about how I might extend the ethernet wiring in my condo to the room where it's lacking. Will be a hassle, and maybe slightly ugly somewhere (wife is eyeing me suspiciously; she knows I'm up to something), but sounds like its worth it in the long hall.

 

Are there length limits on Cat 5 or 6 cables I need to observe. Am probably going to need to at 40 feet to a 40 foot run.

[sockpit]

That's my immediate plan. Will even see if and how well the A+ with Tidal will play to the Airshare output of the mRendu. I have very little music that's not redbook, and the convenience of Tidal keeps me from investing in more.

 

Then I'll likely download kazoo and try and get that working and see if there is a difference.

 

But eventually I'll probably want to take my MBP out of the equation and get a modest NAS to hold the server, music, and photos, etc. By which time I will have figured out how to run more cable (i.e., just where to drill).

[sockpit]

"I hope I didn't side track the original thread."

 

Not at all: the thread is intended for newcomers to the idea of networking who are interested in learning relatively simple, but effective (esp. with respect to SQ) ways to begin using a microRendu. Many current buyer of the "appliance" will just slip it into their existing network. We have to work a bit harder . . .

[sockpit]

Master, Can I ask which Synology model you have? I've been eyeballing the DS 216 and DS216J as not too future possibilities. My library is currently small, but I'm aiming to eventually get the computer out of the equation and control via iPad.

 

Suggestions about how low or how high to shoot in the Sinology line are welcome. I think I only need two bays, not four, so far as I can anticipate. I back up religiously and redundantly already. Thx.

[sockpit]

Hey, you guys aren't dummies.

[sockpit]

So here is a "dummies-question": So I have an iMac with about 900GB of open space on its hard drive sitting in another room from my stereo. It is connected by ethernet cable to my home network, which includes cat 5e to three locations upstairs, but not to my listening room. I've now figured out a way to run a cable from an upstairs ethernet outlet down to my listening room/study. So it seems I could put my ripped music on that iMac in another room, load some server software onto it, plug the microRendu into the new run of ethernet cable to my listening room, and I'd be all set from the standpoint of hardware.

 

Now the questions:

 

1) If the iMac holding the software is asleep much of the time, will it wake up automatically if its basically functioning in place of a NAS and as a server? (You can tell I just use computers, but don't understand them!)

 

2) What server software do you recommend I put on the iMac? Minimserver seems to get a lot of press. Am planning on trying Linn's Kazoo on my iPad to control things. Is the Linn Kazoo Server software a better choice compatibility-wise? Am assuming I need both server software and an app as controller.

 

iMac is from 2011 running Yosemite. Not a lot of other demands on it at all.

[sockpit]

Thanks baddog. I set up the app you linked me to. No go yet. I put in the correct MAC address of the iMac. When I hit the wake button it tries and tells me the MAC address and IP address of the computer it's trying to wake. The MAC address it show is correct, but the IP address doesn't match. Hmmm

[sockpit]

Thanks. Yeah I followed this originally. Will try again when I'm fresher in the head . . . Appreciate it.

[sockpit]

This Dummie (the OP) is happy to report that I've got the microRendu up and playing, and it does sound very good!

 

Here's my set up, given ethernet cable is currently lacking in my playing room: Quite old Airport Express (wall wart kind, but 802.11n) --> ethernet cable --> Rendu --> hard adapter --> DAC.

 

First Attempt-Failure: since I have been happy user of A+ I did the experiment John S. mentioned above of setting the uRendu to AirShare and seeing if I couldn't use the Airport output of A+ to direct the music to the uRendu. Although my MacBook systems preference Audio tab could see the uRendu (it calls it "sonicorbiterse"), A+ could not. A+ could only see Airplay and Built-in Input, and when I played to Airplay no sound came out. I bet there is a workaround--or I just didn't do something correctly--but someone would need to instruct me further, or perhaps A+ just can't do this sort of maneuver. In any case, this route would be a quick way for A+ users dependent upon Tidal to get up and running. But I'm sure you're going to tell me there are better ways to use this swiss army knife of a "toaster." The following seems to be heading in the right direction . . .

 

2. Next Try--surprising success: from reading CA and getting some help from the kind gentlemen above, I knew I needed a server somewhere on my network. So I installed Minimserver last night on my MBP and directed it to my music files on the MPBs SS drive. I also have learned I need a controller, so again, thanks to helpful people here, including Jesus, I downloaded the Linn Kazoo app a couple nights ago. With nothing to discover (then) it just spun endlessly. But having set the output of the uRendu to MPD/DLNA and made sure that Minimserver was running on my MBP I fired up the Kazoo app, and--magic, there was all my music waiting to be played. Boy was/am I proud of myself (can't you tell).

 

Next steps: 1) find out if/how Kazoo handles Tidal. I believe it does. 2) Run an ethernet cable into my listening room and see if getting the AE out of the equation gives me further gains in SQ. Presumably, the AE power supply is defeating some of the isolation I'm after, oder?

 

Anyway: thanks much to those who helped me get this far. Now listen to some music while I get back to work . . .

[sockpit]

Help please: Tidal setup

 

There is no Tidal "tile" showing on Kazoo. I googled it and read around a bit. Am I correct in drawing the conclusion that I need to at BubbleUpnp (or whatever it's called) software on my MBP to get title set up? If so, can someone direct me to a website with a good version of that. If I'm incorrect and Minimserver and Kazoo should be able to do this on their own, what am I missing/doing wrong.

 

Thank you.

[sockpit]

Did you get this working?

 

No. I'm a virgin when it comes to opening Terminal windows But I'm surrounded by engineers, astrophysicist, and silicon geeks, who can bail me out if I don't succeed.

 

Hell, I'm on a roll today, so may give it a try. Thanks for asking. Frankly, I've been listening to the uRendu for the last couple hours. On my system the bass is really enhanced, compared to A+. My sub is on a DSPeaker Anti-Moded Dual Core, and therefore I can control its crossover and volume electronically. I've had to cut the bass by 8 decibels. Much punchier. I have small satellites so better bass (it's not muddy) is good. Will come back for help if I get stymied. Best.

[sockpit]

Cyclamen: From what I've read Kazoo is newer and maybe even replaced Kinsky . . .

[sockpit]

@sockpit - and promised screenshot, this is the Media Renderer screen as configured for the Aries MINI to get Tidal to work in Linn Kazoo on my Mac.

 

Again, if someone is wiser than me, please join in...

 

 

 

 

Thank you. I'll give it a whirl. First have to go watch my boys game . . .

[sockpit]

OK. I've followed baddog and Jesus' instructions for setting up BubbleUPnP on my MBP. And I filled things out exactly as the screen shot is above. (I'm otherwise flying blind, since I understand nothing about how this actually works;)

 

Do I need to reboot something at this point. I take it that I'm trying to get to the point where I see a Tidal Tile on the Kazoo app, right? I've closed the app and opened it again.

 

Suggestions?