Rendu Support Thread

[MikeyFresh]

Has anyone used this device connecting to a router that's that not your main router ? Just wondering what the audio quality is like using this setup considering the urendu is not a wireless device .

Yes I'm currently connecting the mRendu to the Apple Airport Express used as a wireless bridge to Ethernet. No glitches, drop outs or stutters at all, zero to date. The audio quality is excellent, using a Supra Ethernet cable.

[MikeyFresh]

My setup too. No problems with dropouts, etc. SQ is very good. Am still going to run some ethernet cable to this room soon to get the power supply of the AE out of the equation.

I too will likely eventually run Ethernet into that room and ditch the AE entirely, it's SMPS likely detracting somewhat from overall system performance.

 

But right now I'm having too much fun to worry about that.

[MikeyFresh]

David, baddog, Mike, sockpit: My sincere thanks for all the help. That's why I love CA.

 

Because the large size of the Extreme is a negative, and the fact that I don't have any other needs for the device in my music room, I am going with the Express.

 

For the gigabit Ethernet switch, I will get the one linked by David. In order to use this switch, do I just install an Ethernet cable between the switch and my Express? If so, I guess I need to purchase another Blue Jeans Cat 6a cable.

 

That's a nice Netgear switch and I do like Netgear products, but for this application you might also wish to consider the TRENDnet TEG-S50g switch for a couple of reasons.

 

The TRENDnet switch can operate in a green mode that allows for much lower power consumption, which is kind of in keeping with the gestalt of the mRendu, and it will run downright cold to the touch in that scenario too.

 

Additionally, the Netgear switch uses a 7.5 v wall wart, but the TRENDnet switch uses a 5v wall wart that could be upgraded for a Hi-fi connected application to the very quiet iFi iPower 5 volt version.

 

Just a thought anyway, I do own that TRENDnet switch and it has been rock solid for years now, no reboots or any other issues whatsoever since July 2012, though I've yet to upgrade to the iPower supply but will do so soon.

 

I have that switch connected to an Airport Express.

[MikeyFresh]

This is why the question about galvanic isolation I just posed is relevant. If nothing matters (power supply wise) prior to the ethernet cable entering the uR, then the endless quest for pure power supplies on every switch, modem, wifi access point, etc is over. And I think that would be welcome news to everyone except those who produce specialty power supplies.

 

A valid question and I'd bet the answer will vary system to system, there may not be a one size fits all answer to this question despite the looks of it.

 

My point wasn't really so much specifically about any particular switch (or other device's) SMPS wall wart harming the performance of the mRendu in some grand fashion, just my overall preference for never using, or eliminating ANY cheap SMPS wall warts from use in my listening room wherever possible, including replacement of such with the known to be quiet (purportedly 1 µV) iPower.

 

Not saying it makes an enormous difference in any particular system, just my preference/aversion to using ultra cheap wall warts in the listening room. I avoid it like the plague because they pollute the AC circuit with noise and can harm the performance of any component on that AC circuit, mRendu included.

[MikeyFresh]

David, you might be right. I thought I read that the Express uses a wallwart (someone in a uRendu thread had mentioned that was an advantage of the Express over the Extreme, namely, the ability to use after market power supplies), but I can't seem to find that post at the moment.

 

The current version Airport Express does not use a wall wart, it has a detachable C7 (non polarized) power cord that can be upgraded, but the PS itself is internal and thus difficult to upgrade short of hacking into the unit and doing some DIY modifications to it that are beyond my level of expertise, but others have done that.

[MikeyFresh]

This is why the question about galvanic isolation I just posed is relevant. If nothing matters (power supply wise) prior to the ethernet cable entering the uR, then the endless quest for pure power supplies on every switch, modem, wifi access point, etc is over. And I think that would be welcome news to everyone except those who produce specialty power supplies.

 

 

The Ethernet connection is not the only pathway of concern when it comes to use of any cheap noisy SMPS, of equal or greater concern would be noise pollution of the AC circuit itself.

 

Use of a power conditioner that provides isolation/filtering between outlets does address that issue, however so too does snuffing out that noise at it's source/eliminating it entirely by avoiding the use of known to be noisy power supplies, or substituting with the known to be quiet SMPS such as the iPower.

[MikeyFresh]

Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps you can help me understand something about the noise kicked back into the AC mains. My system is close to two wall outlets that happen to be on quite different circuits in my house. I've been plugging only my amp and my preamp/DAC into one outlet (I've not invested in power conditioning, etc. yet). I have new power strip plugged into the other outlet (again, on a different circuit). Into that strip I have plugged my airport express and three wall warts that feed various system accessories. My idea was that it was better to kick all the shit from the wall warts back into a different circuit from that into which the "core" of my system was plugged.

 

Can you comment on whether this makes sense? Or does pollution sent back into one circuit spoil it for others?

 

I may add a power conditioner some day, but I have no plans to tear my place up to run dedicated circuits back to my fuse box with special breakers, purer copper, etc, etc. So just an opinion on how much and how far SMPS pollution infects my home's circuitry would be sufficient.

 

Thanks!

 

Keeping the garbage on a separate circuit can help, although I've seen references to that being done "right" only when each of the 2 circuits is wired to an opposing side of the breaker panel.

 

I've never compared that for myself so I don't know what kind of difference that really makes (or doesn't). I suspect thats another of the questions that doesn't have a one size fits all answer.

 

There is also the opposing notion that says everything must be plugged into the same circuit with a star grounding point, otherwise at least some amount of low level ground loop hum/noise will occur at 60 Hz and it's even order harmonics.

 

I do subscribe to that theory and utilize a star grounded Noisetrapper power strip, which is another reason I choose to keep out the garbage in the first place by avoiding use of any cheap SMPS units in my listening room. The only one I have is the Airport Express itself. My TRENDnet switch, while connected to an AE as previously stated, is in a completely different room/system, my living room video system in which I don't really do any critical listening.

 

And that brings up a final thought for @Blake, do you need a switch at all? If all you wish to connect to the Airport Express via Ethernet is the mRendu, connect it directly and skip the switch entirely until such time as you need additional Ethernet ports in that room.

[MikeyFresh]

If you setup the Airport Express by setting it in client mode to connect to your existing wireless network, and you only need one ethernet connection ( to the microRendu ) then that would be all the hardware required.

 

I believe that is how @sockpit has his microRendu configured with his Airport Express.

 

Thats right and also how I have mine connected, variously referred to as client mode or bridge mode.

 

The "bridge" is a wireless connection from the AE back to the router, allowing the use of an Ethernet only device such as the mRendu when connected to the AE's LAN Ethernet port (there is no use or connection to the WAN port in this set-up).

 

So @Blake can skip the switch so long as he doesn't need or foresee a need for more available LAN ports in that room.

 

I'm sorry that wasn't made clear earlier, I was at work earlier today and sort of blazing through the posts, I didn't realize @Blake only needs one LAN connection in that room.

[MikeyFresh]

I will be using Roon Mode.

 

Option A: MBP (wireless-no cable) > Airport Express > Ethernet cable > microRendu

 

Option B: MBP > Ethernet Cable > Airport Express > Ethernet cable > microRendu

 

I thought Jesus had concerns about the reliability of Option A for hi-rez music and recommended Option B as the superior/more reliable solution?

 

My plan is to use Option B, and for that setup, don't I need two LAN ports?

 

Option A will work fine so long as you have a strong WiFi signal in that room, and you don't simultaneously have a bunch of other WiFi clients around the house asking the router for excessive amounts of bandwidth.

 

So streaming to the mRendu, no problem. Streaming to the mRendu while another member of the household streams an HD movie on Netflix, while another plays an Xbox game online, well... that could be a problem, depends on the router.

 

The only WiFi issue I have ever had with interference is the microwave oven, and only with the AE that is on the far side of my house furthest from the router, with the microwave in between it and the router.

 

Using the microwave while streaming can cause the music to drop out, but only in that one room. The room that is closer proximity to the router is totally unaffected by the microwave running.

[MikeyFresh]

Success! Jesus, I fixed the no sound issue. It was a recognition problem. Sometimes it takes many restarts and connecting/disconnecting downstream components and cables for the system to recognize a change in playback output.

Did you wind up using an Ethernet switch, or just run straight out of an AE to the mRendu?

[MikeyFresh]

My setup is: Comcast/Cisco Wireless Router/Modem > BJC Cat 6a > Airport Extreme (these devices are in a different room that is fairly close to my dedicated music room).

 

the Extreme is wirelessly connected to my Airport Express (I selected "Extend a Wireless Network" on the Express), which is connected with a BJC Cat 6a cable to my microRendu.

 

Because the wireless between the Extreme and the Express is working it looks like I won't need the switcher. I bought the one you recommended but didn't end up opening the box because wireless works, but it is cheap so I may keep it around in case I need it in the future.

 

 

Nearly identical to my arrangement, I too have an Apple Extreme router in a nearby room and get strong enough WiFi signal in the listening room for perfect streaming to the Express. I'm not using Roon however, just JRiver DLNA for now.

 

Since receiving and connecting the mRendu I've had zero glitches, dropouts, stutters, or reboots of any kind, streaming up to 24/192 PCM and DSD64 without a hitch, using JRemote or Bubble UPnP as control points on iPad 2 or Moto X Pure.

 

So the configuration with Airport Express does work well, although I'm still planning to someday run Ethernet cable into the listening room anyway so that I can delete the Express and it's probably somewhat noisy SMPS. Or perhaps I'll DIY hack into the Express in an attempt to modify it with a clean 3.3 volts as suggested elsewhere in this thread.

 

But the Airport Express is a great way to get up and listening with the mRendu in environments lacking an installed wired LAN, as would be various other WiFi Ethernet bridge/extender units for those with an aversion to Apple products.

 

Happy listening to all!

[MikeyFresh]

Are there any alternatives to MinimServer and Kazoo that I can research and learn about?

 

If I go searching, how are those kinds of apps accurately described/defined, beyond simply "server" or "controller"? I like to do a little homework before casually loading something unfamiliar into the system.

 

Also, is it possible to see a screenshot of how this setup appears on desktop, or would I still be looking at, and selecting from, iTunes in my case?

 

Thx.

 

Check out JRiver, or a free version of it that is essentially the same thing with a Pono skin, PonoMusic World.

 

This would be your new music management, DLNA server, and endpoint (microRendu) controller PC software, replacing iTunes.

[MikeyFresh]

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

One last question: do the controllers you've suggested organize and display music libraries in the same way that iTunes does? It is the one thing that iTunes does well for me; I've got 2200 albums organized by Album Artist, and a bunch of custom art. Plus, I've got my own peculiar dumbed-down organization for classical (composer as Album Artist).

 

I'd really like to avoid rewriting metadata and/or re-orging folders to accommodate a proprietary software, especially if I need to bail and go back to iTunes.

 

Or can iTunes still serve as a library only, with the addition of one of the controllers?

 

Apologies if those answers are obvious; just point me to links.

 

Thanx!

 

You can keep iTunes as is and continue to use it for other purposes, i.e. in my case it is kept to manage music using my iPod/iPad etc... as well as for local playback using the iTunes integrated mode of Audirvana+.

 

But the JRiver recommendation I made is not mutually exclusive of iTunes, it is just used for something completely different, that being the DLNA server needed for network streaming use with the microRendu. In that sense the only thing it "replaces" with regard to iTunes is AirPlay.

 

In my set-up, JRiver is "pointed" at the very same iTunes media folder that iTunes itself uses. In other words the music files are housed in the same exact place, excepting DSD files which iTunes doesn't support so those are kept in a separate folder.

 

JRiver allows you to point it at more than one media folder, so I have it pointed at that separate DSD folder in addition to the iTunes media folder. The JRiver library displays the content from both of those folder locations.

 

As far as meta data and your specific arrangement there, I don't know, but it won't hurt to try the free Pono skinned version of JRiver and see if you can get that customized in the way you want it.

 

Again, you won't be ditching iTunes, nor locked into anything by trying PonoMusic World, the two can easily coexist as they do in my system.

[MikeyFresh]

Gotcha. I think.

 

Seems like JRiver is overkill for me. The only music I listen to is from local storage, hardwired (and internet radio). No streaming services, no DSD, and absolutely no WiFi. There is no network, just one iMac connected to a DAC > integrated amp > speakers. Storage hard drives are outside the music room, the iMac has a quiet SSD. I'm looking to avoid creating a network just for a music player.

 

But there must be a "controller" in this assembly, right? (Minimserver - controller - microRendu.) Part of the confusion is products that do many things that I don't need. And the controller is the "player"? And can handle library duties, with an option for iTunes to continue handling library duties?

 

And apparently Pono/JR could be that controller, as could Kazoo or Lumin. Or some other?

 

Now I'm pretty sure I'm lost.

 

You are in the microRendu thread, and that unit is a network music player, a streaming device.

 

So you'll need a network, it isn't intended to be used just for local playback, although I've seen references here and there regarding making it work without a network, but that type of configuration isn't supported by Sonore for a variety of reasons.

 

That aside, yes you can use JRiver as the controller if the computer it is running on is in close proximity to your listening area. In that scenario you wouldn't "need" to use a separate controller device such as a tablet or phone, just control it from the computer itself, again using JRiver (yes the controller is the player in that scenario).

 

But back to my original failure to understand, you wouldn't be using controller apps anyway if you flat out refuse to have a network, it is a requirement when using the Lumin app, or JRemote, maybe Kazoo too although that one might also run on a PC, not really sure, I don't use Kazoo.

 

But you are way ahead of yourself in thinking about controllers, library meta data comparisons to iTunes etc... you need to first decide how you can even use a device like the microRendu without a network.

 

Not impossible but also not something I can adequately comment on, nor something that Sonore provides any real support for.

 

Lastly, don't get too hung up on something like a JRiver (as one example) being overkill because it does many things you don't think you'll want or need. You can configure that software to do only the things you want and nothing else, if a particular feature or bell & whistle isn't something you want, just ignore it or disable it.

 

Others here may be better able to help in commenting on how exactly you'd get the mRendu to work without a network, thats the first question you need to answer, it may not be the right product for you if you have a strong aversion to using a network.

 

Even if you were to end up not using a microRendu due to your not wanting to use a network, I'd still strongly suggest downloading and setting up the free Pono skinned version of JRiver. It will BLOW AWAY iTunes in terms of sound quality even with your current set-up of connecting the iMac directly to a USB DAC.

 

No comparison, and again, you don't have to fully ditch iTunes, keep it and use/update it as you like, but point PMW at that same iTunes media folder and make that your primary music player, it far exceeds iTunes sonically. Sorry for that last bit being off-topic for this thread.

[MikeyFresh]

Thanks, that's a helpful clarification. Although I'm now thinking a microRendu is overkill here.

 

1. The music files already exist in HDDs, with backup, outside the music room.

 

2. The iMac is in the listening room. It's dead-quiet (SSD). I've been using it to play via iTunes/BitPerfect, and am content to continue this way. I might be interested to use an iPod Touch, but only via Bluetooth. No WiFi. There is no home decor here; the room doesn't have to look a certain way. Cables are OK, WiFi is not.

 

3. The DAC is an iFi Nano, USB connection is the only option. Currently connected direct to iMac (no hub).

 

4. The DAC is near the desktop; it's small, USB-powered, and can be moved.

 

5. No existing network. I have an Airport Extreme as a router, nearby the iMac. All hardwired Ethernet, with an available port. WiFi is deliberately disabled.

 

I've set up simple file-sharing networks via Ethernet (when there was a 2nd desktop, gone now). I'd like to avoid unnecessary complexity, and have a player that plays a mix of 16/44 and high-res files (no DSD) on the fly. Like iTunes/BitPerfect did, before the last update tanked. I'd also like this "controller" to manage a library in the same manner that iTunes does, so I don't have to edit metadata. OR, simply resume using iTunes as library management.

 

Given the responses, and my own misunderstanding, I sense that I should just continue to explore other software players.

 

But I'm certainly willing to learn more stuff here. Thanx.

 

You left out many key details in your original posts.

 

Suffice it to say you have what you need to run a microRendu. Just connect it to your Extreme router via Ethernet and configure it via Sonore's Sonicorbiter using a web browser.

 

You can use PMW/JR as previously discussed, just launch a DLNA server from it, and use the iMac itself to control things if you don't want to use a WiFi connected device such as the iPod Touch for that.

 

In that scenario, the JRiver DLNA server would take the the place of Minimserver.

 

JS uncovered what the primary misunderstanding was, you are equating "network" with the internet and use of it for online music streaming sources. While there are some people who likely do that with the microRendu and Tidal (for instance), it is not necessary or even the specifically intended use.

 

In the case of the mRendu, "network" as a requirement means LAN (local area network), which you seem to have ready access to with an Airport Extreme. If that Extreme is connected to the internet via a modem, then you would also have access to any updates to Sonicorbiter pushed out by Sonore.

 

You also equated "network" with WiFi, but a LAN can also be wired, and again you seem to have that covered with an Airport Extreme.

[MikeyFresh]

Not at all; everyone's very helpful here. I hope I'm not coming across as difficult. I just run my household differently. I'm not a computer enthusiast.

 

HDDs are connected directly to the iMac (2013, OSX 10.11.5) via 10-ft USB3 cables. Files are ALAC, no DSD, some high-res.

 

The Airport Extreme is connected via Ethernet as a router. Phone line > DSL modem > Extreme > iMac. WiFi is deliberately disabled. (This is the part that puzzles people; I don't want WiFi used here for performance and security, regardless of counter-argument. I do enable it in very brief patches to check my websites' performance on my iPod Touch, and quickly disable it.) There is only one desktop here. If the mere presence of the Extreme constitutes a network, OK.

 

Or from the Airport Extreme to the uRendu, yes? There is only one Ethernet port on the iMac.

 

Yes, I understand the concept and physical connection.

 

The big unseen for me is: will those controllers organize and display the library in the same way iTunes does? If I need to edit metadata on 2200 albums / 50K tracks to accommodate a new component, that's a deal-breaker. Especially if it doesn't work out and I go back to iTunes library management.

 

Can I try those controllers without buying a uRendu, to test them?

 

And that's the big unheard. The $600 question. The guys on the Audirvana, HQPlayer, etc threads are equally enthusiastic, and my experiences with those players differ.

 

Like I said, I'd been content with iTunes/BitPerfect until I lost gapless capability.

 

I'm also on a budget that can't afford a non-refundable misstep. Which is why I might be stuck with software players.

 

Against all odds – yes.

 

Thanx!

 

Yes you would connect the microRendu to the Airport Extreme via Ethernet. Yes, the Airport Extreme, or any router, is a networking device.

 

You won't need to edit the meta data, those tags are embedded in the ALAC files, as should be your custom artwork.

 

What you will need to do is edit/customize the view in the player/controller software, to suit your specific preference. There are tags/fields that you may wish not to display/use (for instance I personally find "genre" and "rating" useless and hide that from the view along with many others).

 

Download PMW/JR and put a little time into it's set-up and configuration, if you find you can live with that GUI relative to your expectation in being an iTunes user, then perhaps you can move forward and consider the microRendu and network streaming as sonically superior to local playback. You would enable DLNA in PMW/JR for that purpose.

 

You aren't so different compared to many others on this forum as you think. I too am not a computer enthusiast. I too use a Mac/OSX, and house my music files on external hard drives. I too have an Airport Extreme router, though I do use it's Wi-Fi capabilities. I too use ALAC files, though I do have a small amount of DSD files too.

 

More similar than different as I see it.

[MikeyFresh]

OK...I'm back for more help. Trying to setup JRiver to work. I followed the instructions to set up the DLNA server, but what do I use for output mode in the Audio settings menu? I'm not getting any sound.

 

 

What DAC are you using, and what file type/resolutions are your music files?

 

EDIT: I see in a previous post you have the Bricasti DAC. Apologies if you are already further along than this, but in the DLNA set-up you should select L24 PCM output mode.

[MikeyFresh]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29377[/ATTACH]

 

In that screenshot the microRendu is not the selected or chosen JRiver "Zone". You have the local Player selected, indicated by the green triangle icon.

 

Click the rendu 00c564 to select it as the Renderer (Zone in JRiver-speak).

[MikeyFresh]

On 5/30/2017 at 7:44 PM, Tinknocker said:

 Can I set up my microRendu with a motoX Phone. I have an eathernet connection from my wireless cable modem.

   I've tried using the easy start up guide and have not had any luck. Someone please get me going in the right direction.

 

You can use the Chrome browser on a Moto X phone to access sonicorbiter.com, or if you know the IP assigned to the microRendu then the same thing is accomplished by typing that into the browser's address bar as opposed to sonicorbiter.com (6 of one, half a dozen of the other).

 

Why would you want to do that from a phone, you don't have a computer?

[MikeyFresh]

1 minute ago, Tinknocker said:

Yes at this moment I have no computer. I am researching what type would be best for my simple needs. 

I've had no success at this time with my network acknowledgeing the rendu. 

 

So you type sonicorbiter.com into the Chrome browser address bar and it finds nothing?

 

Do you have the Fing app on your Moto X? If so, do you see the microRendu with an assigned IP address?

[MikeyFresh]

14 minutes ago, Tinknocker said:

Yes I type sonicorbiter.com into my chrome browser and it says no music player and or no music server found. " I believe that's what it says from memory.

No I don't have the fing app on my Moto x.

In Sonicorbiter, disregard the Music Server tab as it only applies to Sonore brand servers, you are interested in the pane thats says Network Players.

 

Hit the Refresh circular arrow and see if you can make your unit appear.

[MikeyFresh]

Just now, Tinknocker said:

I will try again after work tomorrow. I have taken the mrendu out of the system for now. I did try the refresh circle and nothing changed.

I just downloaded the app you mentioned and will try again tomorrow. Thanks for your help. Frank

 

When you try tomorrow, you need to be sure the phone is connected to the same network as the microRendu, though obviously the phone will be via WiFi and the mRendu via Ethernet.

 

Assuming the two are on the same network, also then pay attention to the LEDs on the microRendu's Ethernet port, you should see some activity there if the microRendu has been assigned an IP by your router.

 

Make sure you hit the Refresh for the Network Player tab, and not the one for Network Server, as previously mentioned thats only for Sonore branded servers.

 

If you have no computer, where is the music stored, on a NAS?

[MikeyFresh]

Just now, Tinknocker said:

I've had time to re insert the rendu into the network this afternoon. Within the Fing app it is showing that it's there. When I go to sonicorbitor it saying no player on network.

I've taken a couple screen shots of the Fing app and will try and include them with this post.

 

What if you enter the IP address noted in Fing for the microRendu into Chrome, instead of sonicrobiter.com, can you then see the set-up screen?

[MikeyFresh]

Just now, Tinknocker said:

This is what I get when I enter the IP address.

It appears you entered the IP into the Search bar, rather than the actual web address bar at the very top, no?

 

 

[MikeyFresh]

34 minutes ago, Tinknocker said:

This is what I see now. I've edited the last post.

 

 

Click the icon on the right upper side of the black bar that is 3 short horizontal lines to enter the set-up screen menu, select the mode you wish to use.