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The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong


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@esldudeBiofuels do make sense. You can never make more energy than you put in. It is with all fuels. Biofuels reformulated from fats made from algae makes sense - just add light and carbon dioxide. Even the US Military states we need to rethink about Biofuels. They say it is for our National Security.

 

I have working in biofuels for 20 years. If we supported them as much as we do the Petroleum Industry (I mean government support) they would work out the problems, I have no doubt. But, the Petroleum Industry doesn't want that.

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14 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

current biofuels are mostly the result of subsidies to big ag. - corn

 

biofuels make a lot of sense based on what is in the lab now - algae, switchgrass and etc.

 

one co. here collects cooking fat & makes biodiesel

 

esl - you left out using better technologies for the same energy use by the same # people

 

I emphasize for the 3rd time that all of this just reduces somewhat the catastrophic impacts - we need to remove GHGs from the atmosphere to keep things like they are now, or like they were a couple of decades ago

 

First - we pay the oil companies to do oil exploration. In fact, the US Government actually subsidizes it all. The companies do gamble money but most if it is our tax money. The government also subsidizes the refinery industry. So, if those were taken away, then oil and Natural gas would be at a much higher price and biofuels could compete on an even footing. 

 

Scientist know how much Carbon Dioxide humans are putting into the atmosphere. It is relatively easy to measure with an Isotope Mass Spec. Carbon has 2 major isotopes C12 and C13 - C12 is naturally occurring major isotope but C13 was relatively low (like 1.1%). But, since we have done atomic tests C13 spikes at those times and is actually higher in plants and humans compared to what is in say fossil fuels. It is these ratios of C13/C12 that shows how much we are putting into the atmosphere. WHy? in fossil fuels, C13 is only about 1.1% of the total CO2 produced from burning. The C13/C12 ratio in plants and animals is much higher. 

 

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/28/spencer-pt2-more-co2-peculiarities-the-c13c12-isotope-ratio/

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4 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

In the case of ethanol, I thought it was more to control air pollution than any kind of climate engineering solution. Controlling Carbon Monoxide in particular, and positive results in smog control?  Could be wrong there. 

 

Another one one of those complexities though. Might be better to just do that 30mph limit, or go towards very high mpg engines. No idea how the costs of those or any other solutions stack up though. Or if the costs of ethanol make it worth considering in carbon emission control. Still get Carbon Dioxide from the combustion.  Several studies out there, but they appear to be contradictory. Wotta woil!

 

 

Ethanol is being used, as an oxygenate in gasoline, because the original oxygenate that the oil companies came up with, MTBE, was shown to be far more insidious. It seems that if you mix gasoline (with MTBE) and water, the MTBE preferentially partitions into the water portion. This is catastrophic for groundwater as LUST sites (Leaky Underground Storage Tanks) can contaminate water used for drinking water. It is also a carcinogen. This is why ethanol is being used.

 

Just remember, ethanol was one of the original transportation fuels but was phased out in favor of petroleum fuels.

 

Ethanol is considered to be CO2 neutral because it is made with crops that fix CO2 to make biomass, etc.

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  • 3 months later...
1 hour ago, shtf said:

 

It's nonsensical that you think I somehow was comparing Greta to Nazis.  I was merely illustrating how perverted governments and globalists use similar tools to promote their propaganda.  See below.  Perhaps I could have substititued your charicature in place of Greta's but I don't have one.  Please send me one.

 

In case you're unaware, one of the Third Reich's many strategies was first indoctrinate the women, then the children, and the men will follow.  Have you noticed in recent weeks all the children protesting climate change?  If you wanna' follow the leadership of a brainwashed / indoctrinated 16-year old  girl with autism, that is your choice. 

 

As for George Soros, yes, to the best of my knowledge he's a major player in this new world order / globalist movement.  Far more engaged than even somebody like David Rockefeller, if that were even possible.  But he's still a puppet.  As for jews, not sure why you bring them up, except that Soros himself is jewish and was a traitor to his own. 

 

What are you insinuating?  That Soros doesn't exist?  That he's not a globalist or that he's not caused great damage to the US and to other nations?  That globalism is good thing led by those who care about you and your family?

 

It's been said that condemnation without investigation gives clear evidence of indoctrination and I'd venture you've substatiated that with your response here.  Then again, if all of your news comes from NPR and mainstream media, well, that's still a choice you made long ago and you have only yourself to blame. 

 

Speaking of which, feel free to research operation mockingbird that was started in the 1950's and continues to this day.  Or since you don't seem too keen on research maybe you can learn something from this 43 sec excerpt of a speech David Rockefeller gave at the Council on Foreign Relations back in 1991.  That could give you some insight.  Unless of course you think the CFR itself is a branch of gov't including a group of really nice people who have your best interest in mind. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZD7pDPK7N8

 

Useful tools.jpg

 

I was working in climate and ground pollution research before. It is the young people who lead the ignorant and addled out of the darkness. I can't believe You say this. Your ignorance knows no bounds and like @Judignore you go. People with your attitude cannot understand the folly of their opinions.

 

Climate change or Global Warming is how violent the weather can be. More droughts in the west, more hurricanes/typhoons with unpredictability, and other issues. What we will get is warmer summers and colder winters, basically more extremes.

 

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https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/outreach/isotopes/mixing.html

 

Here is an explanation on how they measure man's affect on climate change.

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3 minutes ago, mansr said:

Angry and above all annoying.

 

Well, environmentalists have been annoying for a long time then. She is trying to put her ideology into practice. I mean sailing to the US instead of taking a plane, has some dedication on her end.

 

I think we need to be MORE annoying if we want to deal with global warming before it is too late.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 5 months later...

When I worked in Biofuels, the US Army DARPA put out a document that stated plainly, The US will not be secure until biofuels and alternative energy has been developed. Energy independence is paramount for National Security.

 

Biodiesel can be made quite easily in the US with all the Soybean oil, rape seed oil, etc. produced here. Much of that oil is used as lubricants in metal finishing, etc. The same catalysts that are used in production of petroleum fuels can be used to produce fuels from bio-oils. We just have to have the will to do it. The fuels would then be close to carbon neutral.

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1 minute ago, PYP said:

I know that many diesel engines can use a biodiesel blend, but would the change you envision require new engine designs?  Also, do you think we need to choose one method (electric/hydrogen/biodiesel) or several?

 

I notice you don't mention cannabis oil as a source for biofuel.  😉

 

No. In fact, biodiesel burns cleaner and also gets better mileage. There are no changes to be made other than some computer tweaks for ignition and maybe different gasket material.

 

In the US, ethanol is blended with gasoline. It is not the Ethanol that is the problem but how junky the fuel it is blended with.

 

Also, United Airlines is pushing bio jet fuel production and is buy bio jet fuel.

 

Frontiers | Bio-aviation Fuel: A Comprehensive Review and Analysis of the Supply Chain Components | Energy Research (frontiersin.org)

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He wouldn't be a libertarian either. Libertarians were at the forefront of Womens rights, POC rights, and generally total free speech advocates.

 

Libertarianism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

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10 minutes ago, Priaptor said:

From one of your favorite sites, Wikipedia:

 

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.
 
If the shoe fits!!  LMAO. How many PMs are you guys involved in on this thread to validate each others "dysfunction". 
 
Audiodoc exposed the dysfunction, albeit, it was obvious without him validating its reality.

 

 

R I G H T ......

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Priaptor said:

Seems you guys label more than any other. It is spawned by the intolerant groupthink mentality you people demonstrate with most posts. 

 

Only intolerant of willful ignorance. The first paper ever on global warming was printed in 1938....

 

image.jpeg.c085d1906c8b99a2cb3c6ecb0a552287.jpeg

 

 

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As I said, not a Libertarian. Doesn't actually understand that Libertarian is derived from 'Liberty'. 

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12 minutes ago, Priaptor said:

Wow I’m so honored that you guys like to keep tabs and database my posts. 
 

While your at it share some of those PMs to each other. You the 10 of you with sphinxy leading the charge.

 

 

 

Don't flatter yourself.

 

You think we actually care. I just like people to have facts, not attitude.

 

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https://gml.noaa.gov/outreach/isotopes/

 

Data showing global warming based on stable isotope MS of carbon dioxide.

 

Why is this important?

 

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-67161-6_23

 

C13 isotope is only released from a nuclear fission reaction.

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6 minutes ago, Priaptor said:

Please don't refer to Obama in such a repulsive way. 

This quote says it all about you. Classic 'whataboutism'. 

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