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The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong


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@Priaptor

Happy to confirm your views form old leftist Europe ;-)
If you import products,. you have exported their production waste to other countries/continents.
If - as economist or politician -  you close they eyes on that, you may not have read Ricardo ...
Would you/we / Europe/USA achieve climate goals with 100% inbound production? I doubt it.
Matter of lifestyle (though a cultural/individual  problem ?), I'd say.
And, perhaps,  the strange idea about worldwide wealth distribution without losing wealth for the ones who are wealthy ... ?
Especially a problem, when extreme weather impacts demand extreme measures.
Though Boris can make funny Kermit lines about all that .. That's entertainment
Cheers, DT

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contributed that 2019 , Summerbreeze ...

.. " What importance does the weather (or change of climatic conditions) have for us audiophiles, you may like to ask?  We have power conditioners, linear power supplies, solid state amplification and power hungry transducer, just because we can and we want to! ... And if there has been a wise SO, our system is accompanied by a nearly noiseless AC in our condo. Albeit, you are lucky ...

Here in France, we usually have to deal with limitations in the grid, because some of the nuclear plant's reactors have been proven less resistant against overheating as expertly expected and thus have the need to be shut down more often for grace periods during the summer. I've noticed that ain't different in Germany and Belgium. Given that obvious vulnerability in European power resources which came to light, some people wonder why the French Nuclear Power lobby had successfully dichotomized the once so promising DESERTEC project during the last decade: Solar and Wind power for the European markets originated in the Sahara?
As an Audiophile, I really appreciate the idea of regenerative clean power from sustainable energy sources, even more, if the system is able to improve energy supply to North Africa and the Sub-Saharan regions!!!

Who would imagine that shareholders, for example of Siemens, GE, Trane and Goodman, or other companies that profiteered from shareholder value proposition/generation based on cheap & limitless consummation of energy sources for cooling aids, would stand up with their accumulated wealth to take on responsibility for environmental issues evolving as a consequence of these profits?
I'd reckon, they would rather pay their advocates to prevent them of the obligation than to support victims of the existing/coming climate change.


In short, there were billions of wealth made for investors and companies with engineering, manufacturing, installing and supplying HVAC systems, not only in the USA, but the environmental costs externalities, social & opportunity costs related to their economic success are usually distributed to the public budget.
Which nowadays is forced to invest into a "big, beautiful wall" rather than support climate change prevention.

It is not only a European problem alone, that available knowledge and wisdom haven't been used sufficiently to avoid a crisis that can't be controlled by state forces or conglomerates. In an age of denial, watercraft & wind energy nowadays are often criticized by their environmental impact and the unbearable costs of the future deconstruction. This argument didn't stop past decisions to build fossil fueled or nuclear power plants and gas & oil drilling platforms.

It's 2019, the year when SHELL is using the uncertainty about Brexit to circumvent European legislation in order to back away from the formerly planned environment respecting deconstruction of its outdated oil-drilling platforms in the North Sea. Leaving an "estimated 11,000 tonnes of raw oil and toxins remaining" within the Brent oilfield between the Shetlands and Norway's west coast, as its removal would be "too costly and risky".

Elsewhere in the USA, Floridians still believe it is God's will to get plagued by hurricanes, which are growing more destructive every year.  You may wonder, if the long time denial of climate change and the discombobulating treatment of the science and scientists behind its explanation, has led people to believe, it's consequence is now an inescapable doom. And can no longer be reversed by human action and decisions or, for example, by executing the idea of re-size & de-growth .

"... any serious proposals to change our lifestyles – cutting down on driving, flying or imported avocados – are considered “beyond the pale, heretic, almost insane”. This is especially true of air conditioning, where calls to use it less are frequently treated as suggestions that people should die in heat waves, or evidence of a malicious desire to deny other people the same comforts that citizens in wealthy countries already enjoy" (The Guardian,2019)

As a counter argument often the low-efficiency use of energy for heating during the wintertime in old cities like Minneaopolis appears valid, as long as you do not put it into perspective.

Although my family uses only ventilation in-house, nonetheless, I do not condemn air conditioning, overall.
It has enormous positive effects on wellbeing and productivity in several countries, including the USA.
In my personal conviction, this much desired effect of local cooling just unfortunately (too often) delivers an irreversible effect on global heating, with exceptions granted for cooling systems run by sustainable power generation. 

Still, the penetration of AC usage in European households north of the Mediterranean Sea is at about quarter compared to data from the US, and it differs a lot between the south and the north. Especially Germany and its neighbors having been traditionally outspoken critics of personal use of air conditioning, while the northern countries have nearly no usability scenario for AC. This is the cultural background for my personal assessment.
Another point is to review the impact it has on our resources and climate change.
I fully advocate solutions that would be as close as possible to a net zero carbon footprint."

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1 hour ago, semente said:

Interesting results.

The Greens, which were touted as the winners some 6 months ago, ended up third but got most votes in half of Berlin's constituencies, Frankfurt, Bonn, Stuttgard, Munich, Heidelberg... Apparently voting outside of the 2 main parties is still predominantly an urbanite thing (small Heidelberg is a university/research town so it was to be expected), except for east-southeast Germany which is predominantly far-right leaning, with a massive >30% of the votes around Dresden.

The good news is that looks as though the far-right is on the decline in the west and south (old FDR).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/sep/26/german-election-results-exit-poll-and-possible-coalitions

 

7AUqAFp.png

 

The interesting thing with that result remains that the parties which are Nr.3 & 4 by result, are prone to be decider for the new chancellor.

The losers (Conervatives, only 2nd) may still reign under that condition.
It might be worth to note, that the tendency to far right votes in the "new" regions (integrated/founded after 1989) are profundly rooted in the disappointment of the people in the old "democratic" parties, who are blamed for the misery in living conditions for many living in these regions. As a matter of fact, the majority of the former "East Germany" residents haven't (by far) profited alike from the German prosperity during the last 30 years as their Western brothers and sisters; or arriving for the West German companies that ramshackled the remains of industrial estates in the east.
I still think it's worth to be explained / indicated, but it is not (imho) a proper reasoning for their tendencies.

I got a call from my friend yesterday, who is Liberal party politics activist somwhere close to Frankfurt and succeeded with a 20% vote in a 15k village near Frankfurt (prosperity belt). She was actually in the Nord for holidays, close to Denmark, in a small village where the Liberals even have the mayor and a 34 % voting. Problems felt there are vastly different from East Germany or the big cities.
As a matter of fact, Germany's 2 big established parties (CDU/SPD) have had in 2002 about 77% of all votes, while in 2021 they dipped well below 50% of votes. This may be read as a strong vote against the long term great coalition Germany has had under Madame Merkel.
Anothe point to note is that established parties cannot any longer intergrated the bordeline democrats at the right and left wings of the rally. Nearly 25 % of voters dedicated their votes to parties outside the core of the established democratic system.
 

From the ecologist standpoint, strategic partnerships between Greens and Liberals are very bad news, in my pov.
It is more about importance and influence for the parties after years in opposition, rather than focussing on the important isuues that need to be addressed.
YMMV ..

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Here is a disturbing quote from "The Spiegel" this morning:
 

"During Angela Merkel's 16 years as chancellor, the CDU/CSU had "taken a fatal left turn" and was now, for the first time in a long time, not the strongest party. "The Federal Executive Committee has supported this course and shares responsibility for the current election debacle," it said. If the CDU/CSU were to enter into coalition negotiations with other parties, the Values Union (Werteunion - ultra conservative part of CDU)  would demand the formation of a government without the participation of the Greens."


This is the logic of neanderthal conservatives if they lose to the right AND the left/moderate, because they have nothing more to offer...
 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/24/2021 at 5:13 PM, DuckToller said:

contributed that 2019 , Summerbreeze ...

.. " What importance does the weather (or change of climatic conditions) have for us audiophiles, you may like to ask?  We have power conditioners, linear power supplies, solid state amplification and power hungry transducer, just because we can and we want to! ... And if there has been a wise SO, our system is accompanied by a nearly noiseless AC in our condo. Albeit, you are lucky ...

Here in France, we usually have to deal with limitations in the grid, because some of the nuclear plant's reactors have been proven less resistant against overheating as expertly expected and thus have the need to be shut down more often for grace periods during the summer. I've noticed that ain't different in Germany and Belgium. Given that obvious vulnerability in European power resources which came to light, some people wonder why the French Nuclear Power lobby had successfully dichotomized the once so promising DESERTEC project during the last decade: Solar and Wind power for the European markets originated in the Sahara?
As an Audiophile, I really appreciate the idea of regenerative clean power from sustainable energy sources, even more, if the system is able to improve energy supply to North Africa and the Sub-Saharan regions!!!

Who would imagine that shareholders, for example of Siemens, GE, Trane and Goodman, or other companies that profiteered from shareholder value proposition/generation based on cheap & limitless consummation of energy sources for cooling aids, would stand up with their accumulated wealth to take on responsibility for environmental issues evolving as a consequence of these profits?
I'd reckon, they would rather pay their advocates to prevent them of the obligation than to support victims of the existing/coming climate change.


In short, there were billions of wealth made for investors and companies with engineering, manufacturing, installing and supplying HVAC systems, not only in the USA, but the environmental costs externalities, social & opportunity costs related to their economic success are usually distributed to the public budget.
Which nowadays is forced to invest into a "big, beautiful wall" rather than support climate change prevention.

It is not only a European problem alone, that available knowledge and wisdom haven't been used sufficiently to avoid a crisis that can't be controlled by state forces or conglomerates. In an age of denial, watercraft & wind energy nowadays are often criticized by their environmental impact and the unbearable costs of the future deconstruction. This argument didn't stop past decisions to build fossil fueled or nuclear power plants and gas & oil drilling platforms.

It's 2019, the year when SHELL is using the uncertainty about Brexit to circumvent European legislation in order to back away from the formerly planned environment respecting deconstruction of its outdated oil-drilling platforms in the North Sea. Leaving an "estimated 11,000 tonnes of raw oil and toxins remaining" within the Brent oilfield between the Shetlands and Norway's west coast, as its removal would be "too costly and risky".

Elsewhere in the USA, Floridians still believe it is God's will to get plagued by hurricanes, which are growing more destructive every year.  You may wonder, if the long time denial of climate change and the discombobulating treatment of the science and scientists behind its explanation, has led people to believe, it's consequence is now an inescapable doom. And can no longer be reversed by human action and decisions or, for example, by executing the idea of re-size & de-growth .

"... any serious proposals to change our lifestyles – cutting down on driving, flying or imported avocados – are considered “beyond the pale, heretic, almost insane”. This is especially true of air conditioning, where calls to use it less are frequently treated as suggestions that people should die in heat waves, or evidence of a malicious desire to deny other people the same comforts that citizens in wealthy countries already enjoy" (The Guardian,2019)

As a counter argument often the low-efficiency use of energy for heating during the wintertime in old cities like Minneaopolis appears valid, as long as you do not put it into perspective.

Although my family uses only ventilation in-house, nonetheless, I do not condemn air conditioning, overall.
It has enormous positive effects on wellbeing and productivity in several countries, including the USA.
In my personal conviction, this much desired effect of local cooling just unfortunately (too often) delivers an irreversible effect on global heating, with exceptions granted for cooling systems run by sustainable power generation. 

Still, the penetration of AC usage in European households north of the Mediterranean Sea is at about quarter compared to data from the US, and it differs a lot between the south and the north. Especially Germany and its neighbors having been traditionally outspoken critics of personal use of air conditioning, while the northern countries have nearly no usability scenario for AC. This is the cultural background for my personal assessment.
Another point is to review the impact it has on our resources and climate change.
I fully advocate solutions that would be as close as possible to a net zero carbon footprint."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/09/fossil-fuel-companies-law-firms?

Greenlighting

Fossil fuel companies paying top law firms millions to ‘dodge responsibility’

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  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, semente said:

 

The US system looks, to my European eyes, like little more than a modernised version of what I remember seeing in cowboys films growing up, the lawless Wild West.

The political system was designed to keep rich white men in power and to favour the interests of the few over the needs and wellbeing of the many. It's undemocratic, unequal and unfair.

Such a system, steered solely by greedy commercial interest, has little chance of addressing the climate issue which requires a completely change in paradigm: on the one hand infinite growth is not sustainable, and on the other assymetries in wealth distribution will have a massive disproportionate impact on the population with the poorest getting hit the hardest by the measures needed to control heating and waste, and those who profited from destroying the planet will go through the change almost unsacthed.

THIS, exactly describes my 'typical European" perception problem with "American" - often "Libertarian" -  Conservatism.

Any discussion about that is prone to be shattered by the cultural divide, as we write the same words but they have different meanings to us, depending on geography.

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4 hours ago, PYP said:

Would need a separate thread to discuss the politicization of religion and religious nationalism.

As well one to reflect on the worldwide green impact of US economic growth drivers like Haliburton or Lockheed.. . 19 trillion $$$ since 2001 ...

Did they invest their lobbying budget as well for the ecological footprint of mass destruction???

Just asking for a dead friend.. .

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  • 3 weeks later...
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