Sonore Linear Power Supply

[vortecjr]

I can measure it here and it looks great to me:) Nice work as usual Barrows. 

[Puma Cat]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

@sahmen,  OK, so specifically, one of the purposes of using an optical connection scheme is to create total galvanic isolation between components.  So if one has an opticalRendu, and an opticalModule upstream of it (or a cheapo FMC for that matter), one would never want to power the two of these devices by the same power supply, as by doing so one defeats the isolation (the power supply, being in common, creates a direct electrical link between the two devices).

So the worst case outcome of powering two devices by the same supply would be the above, where there is isolation inherent in the design of the products, which is being defeated by the common supply.

 

In additions to the above scenario, it is always a compromise to power any two separate circuits by a common supply.  Hence we have one of the main differences between good DACs and very, very good DACs is the degree to which they internally feature different, separate supplies for different parts of the circuit(s).  One has to understand that electricity is not a one direction thing... any connection, electrically, can go both ways.  For example, say one has a DAC, and there is one master clock circuit beating at 22.576 kHZ-and say the power supply for that clock circuit is shared with the DAC chip's digital section (this is a common approach in affordable DACs).  The frequency of the master clock will modulate the power supply, overlaying a noise component on it at the frequency of the clock and its harmonics.  So one can see how that noise is now shared with the digital section of the DAC chip, potentially degrading its performance.  The same happens when powering multiple components with a single supply.  In an ideal world, every circuit would have its own dedicated power supply, designed specifically to suit the needs of that circuit.

 

As for advice, well first I would advise everyone to avoid the scenario in the first example at the top, as doing this would defeat the purpose of having an optical interface at all.

For the second example, every system is different, and every interaction is different, so there is no way to advise one amongst the many possibilities excepting to say that it always better to have separate supplies form a technical viewpoint, and one should try to do so as much as possible.  But sometimes convenience wins out for some folks, and sometimes for others, ultimate performance is the only criteria. Many power supplies may be capable of outputting enough power to power many components at once, but just because they can does not mean that doing so is the way to the best performance possible.

 

I have a fairly simple set up:  Mac Mini as server running ROON, it is powered by its own internal supply (and grounded to eliminate high impedance leakage current) the mini connects to a router via CAT 6A, the router has its own custom supply with very low noise and very low output impedance, then I have a short run of CAT 6A to the opticalModule, which has its own very high performance linear supply, then optical cable (OM3) to my Signature Rendu SEoptical (with its own built in supply).   The Mini, Router and oM all are in my work room, and  a long optical run leads to the audio system in my downstairs living area.  In a simple set up like mine the most important supplies (not including DAC, preamp, AMP etc) are those in the Signature Rendu SEoptical and the opticalModule-I would not bother so much with the supplies for the server or router and consider them extra tweaks which may, or may not, even make a difference given the level of isolation between my system and my commercial computer gear (which is also on a separate mains feed from the audio system and plugged into a passive power conditioner).

 

I hope that helps some!

Your setup is somewhat to mine, Barrows, though somewhat of  a "converse" configuration. 

 

Mac Mini powered by a Shunyata Venom 14 C7 running Roon Core in the bedroom, connected to a router whose SMPS is shunted to ground with a JSGSS (John Swenson Ground Strap Shunt) cable/), Audioquest Cinnamon Ethernet cable to Pace router (the only thing that works for ATT U-Verse, unfortunately).  Interestingly, the Pace router has  built-in in Ethernet switch which is quite a bit quieter than a standalone TP-link Ethernet switch. Then, Supra Cat 8 Ethernet from router to upstream TP-link MC220L FMC using a SystemOptique SFP optical transceiver. The TP-Link FMC is powered by a Jameco 9V LPS plugged into a Shunyata Hydra 4; a long run of OM1-LC fiber to the OpticalModule, which is powered by an LPS-1 (soon to be LPS-1.2), then short run of (beta test) Ethernet cable to SOtM sSMS-200 UltraNeo powered by a Keces P3 at 12V. The LPS and Keces are connected via Shunyata power cords into a Shunyata Triton distributor. 

 

DAC is Schiit Gungnir Multibit with Gen 5 USB and amplification is formerly "near SOTA" C-J tube amplification, & Dynaudio speakers with Esotar 2 tweeters. All electronics also powered by the Shunyata Triton with Shunyata power cables. 

 

This setup is VERY quiet and after some tweaks and configuration optimization, sounds really quite good...

[barrows]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

So in theory we should expect equal SQ as the Signature SE ? 😀

No, there are still a lot of further refinements in the Signature Rendu SE, these refinements add up, and will make a difference (in audiophile terms now) in a good system.  But the delta is not that big if all the details are attended to in an opticalRendu/Sonore Power Supply set up: attention to vibration control, very short DC cable, etc.  Of course there is also a big difference in cosmetics with the Signature, and that matters as well to many customers.

[vortecjr]

Production update

 

I just added a "few" of these into inventory. 

[iLguapo]

42 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Production update

 

I just added a "few" of these into inventory. 

 

Thank you !!

[sahmen]

@barrows, @Puma Cat :  Not to beat a proverbial "dead horse," but where do power conditioners/surge protectors with multiple outlets like those from Furman or Belkin fit into these optical noise isolation configurations, if there are any places for them to start with?  I wish I did not have to ask, but such "conditioners" have always been part of my rigs, not simply for surge protection purposes, but also for their much touted "noise filtration" technologies, which often do a great job in removing all kinds of line noises and hums from my rigs.  Heck, I am just about to replace the standard power strip I use for my main modem, router,  Synology NAS,  and an attached external hard drive, with a  Furman power conditioner which has 9 outlets. This is going to be a sort of set and forget it solution, and yet, after reading your recent comments, I am no longer sure that I am applying the ideal solution in this particular case.  However, for reasons of sheer logistical convenience, I cannot approach this following a one-LPS-to-one-component method, which is what makes such 9-outlet power conditioners and others like it interesting to me...

 

You see why I cannot stop beating this dead horse?  It is really not dead for me, to begin with.  At least not yet 😉 

 

Which is why I am curious about methods you use to manage noise in your own audio environments. 😉

[barrows]

Power conditioning is a huge topic, and merits its own thread (perhaps many threads) on the AudiophileStyle forums.  It is probably quite of topic to go into here on the Sonore forum...  Suffice it to say, that power conditioning can be very important in a complete system context.  One thing I always suggest people keep in mind RE power conditioning, is that applying it can be a very different experience from one location to another (as the noise existing on the power line can be very different from location to location)- So, what works for one system, in one location, may not be appropriate for another systemic another location.

 

In a Sonore context: The Signature Rendu SEoptical addresses incoming AC power quality by including some power line filtering on its input, and using a very expensive, custom wound, IE style transformer from Mercury Magnetics (US made).  these are some of the refinements that give the Signature level product improved performance over the Sonore Power Supply.  

 

[Puma Cat]

3 hours ago, sahmen said:

@barrows, @Puma Cat :  Not to beat a proverbial "dead horse," but where do power conditioners/surge protectors with multiple outlets like those from Furman or Belkin fit into these optical noise isolation configurations, if there are any places for them to start with?  I wish I did not have to ask, but such "conditioners" have always been part of my rigs, not simply for surge protection purposes, but also for their much touted "noise filtration" technologies, which often do a great job in removing all kinds of line noises and hums from my rigs.  Heck, I am just about to replace the standard power strip I use for my main modem, router,  Synology NAS,  and an attached external hard drive, with a  Furman power conditioner which has 9 outlets. This is going to be a sort of set and forget it solution, and yet, after reading your recent comments, I am no longer sure that I am applying the ideal solution in this particular case.  However, for reasons of sheer logistical convenience, I cannot approach this following a one-LPS-to-one-component method, which is what makes such 9-outlet power conditioners and others like it interesting to me...

 

You see why I cannot stop beating this dead horse?  It is really not dead for me, to begin with.  At least not yet 😉 

 

Which is why I am curious about methods you use to manage noise in your own audio environments. 😉

I think that Barrows is right that topics on power and power "noise management" are best covered in their own topic on A/S, but I'll just comment briefly here; happy to have a more detailed discussion in a dedicated topic elsewhere 

 

I've been using Shunyata power distributors & cords since 2011, and have found them to be FOUNDATIONAL for high-quality audio reproduction. I tried some others, including the PS Audio Power Plant Premier, & my entry-level Hydra 4 notably out-performed it. I don't like or use any distributors with isolation transformers, chokes, or coils. 

 

Installing my Hydra Triton (v. 1) was literally a component-level upgrade. Anything that draws AC power from the wall or Triton has a Shunyata power cord on it,  Overall, I've found these products bring considerable quietness, lack of hash, grunge, grain, etc.,  and imparts a wonderful "listening ease" to the musical presentation. 

 

If were to put $3500 into my system, I'd put that money into upgrading my Triton to a v3 over upgrading my C-J preamp or a getting a better DAC, no question about it. 

 

Okay, back on-topic. 

[sahmen]

5 hours ago, barrows said:

Power conditioning is a huge topic, and merits its own thread (perhaps many threads) on the AudiophileStyle forums.  It is probably quite of topic to go into here on the Sonore forum...  Suffice it to say, that power conditioning can be very important in a complete system context.  One thing I always suggest people keep in mind RE power conditioning, is that applying it can be a very different experience from one location to another (as the noise existing on the power line can be very different from location to location)- So, what works for one system, in one location, may not be appropriate for another systemic another location.

 

In a Sonore context: The Signature Rendu SEoptical addresses incoming AC power quality by including some power line filtering on its input, and using a very expensive, custom wound, IE style transformer from Mercury Magnetics (US made).  these are some of the refinements that give the Signature level product improved performance over the Sonore Power Supply.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Puma Cat said:

I think that Barrows is right that topics on power and power "noise management" are best covered in their own topic on A/S, but I'll just comment briefly here; happy to have a more detailed discussion in a dedicated topic elsewhere 

 

I've been using Shunyata power distributors & cords since 2011, and have found them to be FOUNDATIONAL for high-quality audio reproduction. I tried some others, including the PS Audio Power Plant Premier, & my entry-level Hydra 4 notably out-performed it. I don't like or use any distributors with isolation transformers, chokes, or coils. 

 

Installing my Hydra Triton (v. 1) was literally a component-level upgrade. Anything that draws AC power from the wall or Triton has a Shunyata power cord on it,  Overall, I've found these products bring considerable quietness, lack of hash, grunge, grain, etc.,  and imparts a wonderful "listening ease" to the musical presentation. 

 

If were to put $3500 into my system, I'd put that money into upgrading my Triton to a v3 over upgrading my C-J preamp or a getting a better DAC, no question about it. 

 

Okay, back on-topic. 

 

@barrows, @Puma Cat 

 

Thanks for your informative responses...  I do not have any immediate remaining questions to ask, but the topic of these power conditioners interests me, so I have created a forum for it on this site, just in case other questions come up, or in case other posters have some related input.  Here it is:

 

 

 

[Puma Cat]

7 minutes ago, sahmen said:

 

 

@barrows, @Puma Cat 

 

Thanks for your informative responses...  I do not have any immediate remaining questions to ask, but the topic of these power conditioners interests me, so I have created a forum for it on this site, just in case other questions come up, or in case other posters have some related input.  Here it is:

 

 

 

Thanks! See you over there...

[iLguapo]

My PS arrived yesterday, thank you!!!!

unfortunately I’m still waiting on cables 🥴 

[vortecjr]

9 hours ago, iLguapo said:

My PS arrived yesterday, thank you!!!!

unfortunately I’m still waiting on cables 🥴 

Okay...keep us posted. 

[R1200CL]

On 6/20/2019 at 4:00 PM, iLguapo said:

unfortunately I’m still waiting on cables 🥴  

No cables yet ?

 

Like to know how your new PS change anything. 

[R1200CL]

@vortecjr

Shipping cost to Norway is $153. 

Can’t something be done to reduce that cost ?

 

Even the optcalModule is $57 in freight. 

 

 

[Tintinabulum]

Plus one on shipping cost (plus VAT and tax), priced me out completely unfortunately...

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

@vortecjr

Shipping cost to Norway is $153. 

Can’t something be done to reduce that cost ?

 

Even the optcalModule is $57 in freight. 

 

 

The cost is based on your location, the carrier used, and the weight of the item. The location and weight can't be helped. There are less expensive services, but no one wants there unit sitting in customs warehouse for weeks waiting for clearance. International Tax and VAT are charged by your country and we have nothing to do with it.   

[charlesphoto]

Never knew there was a 4th of July discount. You have to advertise these things! 

[R1200CL]

29 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Never knew there was a 4th of July discount. You have to advertise these things! 

 

Still working. 

 

And all you have todo is make sure you’re on Sonores mailing list. Or SGC list. 

 

Both send emails about this. 

[R1200CL]

4 hours ago, vortecjr said:

There are less expensive services, but no one wants there unit sitting in customs warehouse for weeks waiting for clearance.

 

Well, for Norway this isn’t a problem. I can’t speak for other countries.

(I remember Alex did a post about this once. And he had a lot of challenges).  There are traps, and some special requirements is some countries yes. But EU should be simple). 

 

We get a notice on local post like any parcel, and jut pick it up. (And pay the 25% tax added plus a handling fee). 

 

I think as long as forms needed for international shipments is filled out, there shouldn’t be any problem. At most customs.

I’m sure those affected know about possible problems, and request DHL, as offered as one option during check out. 

 

I can’t see how a less expensive service should impact customs etc. at least not in Europe. 

 

Maybe Alex will share with you how and at what cost the JS-2 ships ?

 

Anyway. Would be nice if you could look into this. Like the small opticalModule must be possible to ship for far less than $57. 

 

I think Uptone struggle to pay more than $36 on a comparable shipment.  

 

I don’t mind if it takes two weeks. 

Actually I just bought a simple wire from France €10 + same in shipping. Shipping took close to 3 weeks. Probably because it was shipped as a parcel and not a letter.

And I remember I almost lost my MicroRendu in the US post at the time I did the 1.4 upgrade, but it showed up finally. And shipping was much less expensive than DHL. Still with tracking. (Norwegian post). 

 

You should also be able to get better prices due to some volume. And you can investigate to do that deal together with SGC and maybe even get better price. Just a suggestion . 

 

This is just a friendly request Jesus. 

 

(As for myself and other Scandinavians we have https://www.jetcarrier.com/ as an option in wost case). 

[vortecjr]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

 

Well, for Norway this isn’t a problem. I can’t speak for other countries.

(I remember Alex did a post about this once. And he had a lot of challenges).  There are traps, and some special requirements is some countries yes. But EU should be simple). 

 

We get a notice on local post like any parcel, and jut pick it up. (And pay the 25% tax added plus a handling fee). 

 

I think as long as forms needed for international shipments is filled out, there shouldn’t be any problem. At most customs.

I’m sure those affected know about possible problems, and request DHL, as offered as one option during check out. 

 

I can’t see how a less expensive service should impact customs etc. at least not in Europe. 

 

Maybe Alex will share with you how and at what cost the JS-2 ships ?

 

Anyway. Would be nice if you could look into this. Like the small opticalModule must be possible to ship for far less than $57. 

 

I think Uptone struggle to pay more than $36 on a comparable shipment.  

 

I don’t mind if it takes two weeks. 

Actually I just bought a simple wire from France €10 + same in shipping. Shipping took close to 3 weeks. Probably because it was shipped as a parcel and not a letter.

And I remember I almost lost my MicroRendu in the US post at the time I did the 1.4 upgrade, but it showed up finally. And shipping was much less expensive than DHL. Still with tracking. (Norwegian post). 

 

You should also be able to get better prices due to some volume. And you can investigate to do that deal together with SGC and maybe even get better price. Just a suggestion . 

 

This is just a friendly request Jesus. 

 

(As for myself and other Scandinavians we have https://www.jetcarrier.com/ as an option in wost case). 

I have no issues sending it to a US based freight forwarder. 

[charlesphoto]

Ordered. the 10% off pretty much paid for the shipping to Seattle. 

 

I ship fine art prints overseas and even with USPS (which I consider the easiest from customs etc standpoint) it isn't cheap. And I have the luxury of valuing them as cheap gifts for customs which a company like Sonore wouldn't be able to do and still insure themselves. Which is why it would be best if in the EU to buy from their distributor in the UK, though I realize they probably don't have everything. As it is, the free shipping I've been offering my EU clients is coming to an end - just taking too much of a bath on it, esp if a mistake is made in the order like I did twice last month - too distracted by other things. 

[charlesphoto]

Sonore UltraSupply in place and running about 16 hours now powering a microRendu 1.4. Sounded very good right off and getting better and sure will continue to improve. I'm not qualified to say it's better than anything else (ok, it is better than the iFi, HDPLEX 100, and LPS-1 I've used to power the mR) but it's the least fatiguing I've heard my system, which says to me it's very neutral. It also allowed me to move and increase the quality of the power supplies down the chain (ie LPS-1 to oM and so on). My Ghent Neotech JSSG cable is slightly compromised in that it has a screw on dc barrel connector on one side as I removed the GX-16 (waiting for some solder to arrive to attract another Oyaide). But that shouldn't make much difference. 

 

Very happy with my purchase and can easily recommend.

[barrows]

Thanks for the feedback Charles, and glad you are liking the sound!

[iLguapo]

I powered my OR and a Mac mini with a JS-2 for a while and it sounded great and quiet , been using the new Sonore Ultra Supply for the last 2-3 weeks and the first thing I noticed was that it got even quieter and more relaxed , tried a couple of different DC cables, the Sonore own cable and. Gotham Ghent , the Ghent gives the music more weight, presence 

[BCRich]

Any benefit to upgrading the Fuse in the UltraSupply?