Sonore Linear Power Supply

[seaharp1]

18 minutes ago, barrows said:

 

The circuit design is the same as the Signature Power Supply

Will the original Signature Power Supply (before SE) be okay for optical rendu?

[barrows]

1 minute ago, seaharp1 said:

Will the original Signature Power Supply (before SE) be okay for optical rendu?

Yes, it will provide superb performance.

[Sonic77]

1 minute ago, barrows said:

Yes, it will provide superb performance.

That's what I'm using, oR barely gets warm, and sounds fantastic.

[R1200CL]

On 5/29/2019 at 9:21 PM, barrows said:

Yes, it will provide superb performance.

 

I may be able to get one used. 

Is this 9V only ?

 

How many ampere?

 

Can it be modified to even better performance, like adding those 3045 regulators ?

[barrows]

24 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

I may be able to get one used. 

Is this 9V only ?

 

How many ampere?

 

Can it be modified to even better performance, like adding those 3045 regulators ?

[barrows]

25 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I may be able to get one used. 

I see, you are referring to the Sonore Signature Supply.

 

It is 7 VDC output (some may be 8 VDC, i do not quite remember).

 

The regulator we use performs at least as well as, and with more current capability than the LT 3045, so I would not bother trying to "improve" it!

 

Output current for the Signature Supply is about 1.5 A continuous, it can actually do much more, but may overheat if in a hot room and asked to output 2A continuous or more.  It was designed for the microRendu, so was never expected to be run at 2A continuous.

[iLguapo]

Any progress on the new PS? Are we getting close?

[vortecjr]

It's coming together quickly...check back with us next week. 

[iLguapo]

3 hours ago, vortecjr said:

It's coming together quickly...check back with us next week. 

 

Great news, thank you !!

 

[iLguapo]

On 6/7/2019 at 2:22 PM, vortecjr said:

It's coming together quickly...check back with us next week. 

 

Ready to start taking orders?

[barrows]

Still waiting for one part to arrive before being ready to make a first batch of units.  I am also recovering from a bike accident (I will not go into detail here), which is making builds just a little difficult: they will happen, I am just limiting the amount of time I work right now.  I am a detail oriented perfectionist when I do the builds, so I will not rush things.  Remember, these supplies are hand built one at a time.

Should not be too long right now. 

[Puma Cat]

On 5/27/2019 at 9:52 AM, barrows said:

The question is, would most customers place the Rendu directly adjacent to the power supply and use a short cable?

Personally? No. 

 

When possible, I like to keep power supplies away from components, preferably on a separate shelf in the audio rack.  I also like to keep anything with a CPU operating at high-bandwidth, e.g. a music server or network renderer, streamer, bridge, etc as far away as is practical from the DAC. This is to prevent component-to-component interference (this is an area where Shunyata Research, for example, has made great strides with their current products). This is also the reason I don't have my C-J CT-5 preamp sitting in the audio rack directly over the very large transformers of my C-J LP-70S tube amplifier. 

[barrows]

I do not use an opticalRendu here, but with my opticalModule I place the oM on top of the power supply, separated by two blocks which provide about 1.5" of spacing above the power supply.  A short DC power cable is a BIG advantage especially with power supplies connecting to digital components like this.  I have found the impedance (aka "speed") of the power supply to be critical for performance, and any length of wire "slows" the power supply (hence John's advice for star quad cables with low inductance).

Of course you do not want the power component too close to the power supply, as it could pick up radiated EM from the transformer: but at current levels around 1A max, the transformer is not producing a very large EM field, really only a couple of inches of separation from the transformer is needed to avoid issues.  I would advise doing what you need to to have a clean set up, but use the shortest possible DC cable.  With my opticalModule I am using a 8" DC cable. 

[charlesphoto]

Will the rear jack on the back of the new ps be a GX-16-2, XLR or 2.1DC or other? 

 

For my LPS-1 to microRendu I ended up with a very short, almost hardwired connection - Oyaide dc plug with Neotech 12g solid core OCC, just separated by air, with about 4" from the LPS to an LT3045, then two inches after that into the microRendu on the shelf below it (sticking out from the rear of the DAC V1). Super DIY looking (though not visible from the room) but makes for a big sound. 

[vortecjr]

3 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Will the rear jack on the back of the new ps be a GX-16-2, XLR or 2.1DC or other? 

 

For my LPS-1 to microRendu I ended up with a very short, almost hardwired connection - Oyaide dc plug with Neotech 12g solid core OCC, just separated by air, with about 4" from the LPS to an LT3045, then two inches after that into the microRendu on the shelf below it (sticking out from the rear of the DAC V1). Super DIY looking (though not visible from the room) but makes for a big sound. 

The output port is a nice 2.1 mm single pin connector. 

[R1200CL]

On 5/25/2019 at 7:13 PM, Superdad said:

What does that even mean?!   Are you commenting about the PS that Sonore is teasing?

 

Sorry, I thought it was the same ZeroZone look a like they are selling now.  

 

Didn’t understand this was a new product. 

[R1200CL]

@barrows

 

Do I have to specify 110 or 230 VAC when ordering ?

Or can the power supply be used on both 110 and 230 ?

 

[vortecjr]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@barrows

 

Do I have to specify 110 or 230 VAC when ordering ?

Or can the power supply be used on both 110 and 230 ?

 

You have to specify the voltage at order time because these are custom built to order. 

[barrows]

Yes, these units are hand built, one at a time, and wired (and fused) for either 115 VAC, or 230 VAC.  They are fully linear supplies and as such are not multi voltage capable.  BTW, it is a small performance advantage to wire them directly for a fixed voltage, as this eliminates extra connections and switches in the high voltage input path-input AC wires go directly (in a star quad twist) from the IEC connector to the transformer with no additional connections or junctions-clean and simple.

[sahmen]

On 5/25/2019 at 11:41 AM, barrows said:

You do not want to power the opticalModule and the opticalRendu from the same power supply, as this would defeat the isolation provided by optical Ethernet....

 

With products like this one is paying a premium price for very high performance (vs. standard consumer gears), so it does not make much sense to then hamper the components performance by sharing power supplies.

 

The point is well taken, but then it immediately brings to mind the 200w LPS pictured here, which I have had on my SGC wishlist for a while now, precisely because of the claim that it is "Great for powering the ultraRendu or microRendu, ultraDigital, and a sonicTransporter at the same time." 

 

I am assuming your statement might be restricted to powering the "opticalModule and the opticalRendu" with the same LPS, however, my perfectly non-expert point of view is tempted to extend that meaning to practically all Sonore products (and others) that might require a power supply, and if that happens, I'd just have to strike that 200w LPS of my wishlist, as I would like to avoid the possibility of reciprocal noise pollution of any two or more components being powered simultaneously by that 200w LPS

 

To simplify my question : which sonore components, if any, could use that LPS jointly without running the kind of reciprocal noise pollution you're warning against?  Could i use to power both an OpticalRendu, and a Sonic Transporter, for example, without exposing both of them to mutual noise infection?

 

I am also tempted to ask how it stacks up against the upcoming UltraSupply, when paired with the OpticalRendu and another unit (where the reciprocal noise pollution is not an issue).   Can one use the 200w LPS to power the OpticalRendu and other components simultaneously and still get performance that is comparable to that of the UltraSupply with the OpticalRendu?

[barrows]

@sahmen,  OK, so specifically, one of the purposes of using an optical connection scheme is to create total galvanic isolation between components.  So if one has an opticalRendu, and an opticalModule upstream of it (or a cheapo FMC for that matter), one would never want to power the two of these devices by the same power supply, as by doing so one defeats the isolation (the power supply, being in common, creates a direct electrical link between the two devices).

So the worst case outcome of powering two devices by the same supply would be the above, where there is isolation inherent in the design of the products, which is being defeated by the common supply.

 

In additions to the above scenario, it is always a compromise to power any two separate circuits by a common supply.  Hence we have one of the main differences between good DACs and very, very good DACs is the degree to which they internally feature different, separate supplies for different parts of the circuit(s).  One has to understand that electricity is not a one direction thing... any connection, electrically, can go both ways.  For example, say one has a DAC, and there is one master clock circuit beating at 22.576 kHZ-and say the power supply for that clock circuit is shared with the DAC chip's digital section (this is a common approach in affordable DACs).  The frequency of the master clock will modulate the power supply, overlaying a noise component on it at the frequency of the clock and its harmonics.  So one can see how that noise is now shared with the digital section of the DAC chip, potentially degrading its performance.  The same happens when powering multiple components with a single supply.  In an ideal world, every circuit would have its own dedicated power supply, designed specifically to suit the needs of that circuit.

 

As for advice, well first I would advise everyone to avoid the scenario in the first example at the top, as doing this would defeat the purpose of having an optical interface at all.

For the second example, every system is different, and every interaction is different, so there is no way to advise one amongst the many possibilities excepting to say that it always better to have separate supplies form a technical viewpoint, and one should try to do so as much as possible.  But sometimes convenience wins out for some folks, and sometimes for others, ultimate performance is the only criteria. Many power supplies may be capable of outputting enough power to power many components at once, but just because they can does not mean that doing so is the way to the best performance possible.

 

I have a fairly simple set up:  Mac Mini as server running ROON, it is powered by its own internal supply (and grounded to eliminate high impedance leakage current) the mini connects to a router via CAT 6A, the router has its own custom supply with very low noise and very low output impedance, then I have a short run of CAT 6A to the opticalModule, which has its own very high performance linear supply, then optical cable (OM3) to my Signature Rendu SEoptical (with its own built in supply).   The Mini, Router and oM all are in my work room, and  a long optical run leads to the audio system in my downstairs living area.  In a simple set up like mine the most important supplies (not including DAC, preamp, AMP etc) are those in the Signature Rendu SEoptical and the opticalModule-I would not bother so much with the supplies for the server or router and consider them extra tweaks which may, or may not, even make a difference given the level of isolation between my system and my commercial computer gear (which is also on a separate mains feed from the audio system and plugged into a passive power conditioner).

 

I hope that helps some!

[sahmen]

@barrows,  That is extremely well explained, and very helpful.  I do have some clarity about these LPS options now. Thanks.

[R1200CL]

@barrows

So what’s the noise floor of this new PS ?

 

[barrows]

25 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

@barrows

So what’s the noise floor of this new PS ?

 

I cannot measure it here (doing such a measurement justice would require a seriously costly spectrum analyzer)...  The regulator we use has ripple rejection of better than 120 dB, and output noise spec (worst case) in the single digit range of microVolts.  After the input filter caps we have somewhere around 30 mV of ripple (that is a very general number as this amount will vary with load) at the input of the regulator.  At these type of noise levels (where noise is basically insignificant) I care more about the speed of the regulator (output impedance and settling times) and this is where the regulator shines: it achieves performance slightly beyond the LT 3045, while being able to handle up to 3A current (6 times what a LT 3045 can do).  

Note the speed/impedance performance is good enough that the connecting cable will almost certainly be the limiting factor-keep it short! 

 

As noted previously, this is basically a simplified version of the Sonore Signature Power Supply, with a less costly chassis, less features, and slightly changed parts spec-the actual performance is very, very close to that unit.

[R1200CL]

47 minutes ago, barrows said:

As noted previously, this is basically a simplified version of the Sonore Signature Power Supply, with a less costly chassis, less features, and slightly changed parts spec-the actual performance is very, very close to that unit.

 

So in theory we should expect equal SQ as the Signature SE ? 😀