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Annoying Yiggy Issue


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3 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Well, it’s not THAT BAD! My Yiggy is certainly a decent DAC. For instance, I’ve never heard a Delta-Sigma DAC that could hold a candle to the Schiit Yggdrasil, and that includes the latest ESS SaberDAC Pro based units. It’s just that the Chord unit works on an entirely different principle with its 49000+ filter taps! CDs, digital files of all bit depths and sample rates resolve details, that I didn’t even know were there! This includes my own recordings which I know intimately, or at least I thought I did.

 

I appreciate your opinion. However, comparing Gungnir with Chord Mojo I came to rather opposite conclusions. Yes, I fully understand the difference between entry level and more advanced item from Chord. There is also certain difference between two Schiit DACs. Still I could guess there is some specific sound signatures within particular approach. To me Gungnir sounds much more natural, fatigue-free, "analogue". Resolution my impress immensely in a short run, but long run impact seem to be more important to me.

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1 minute ago, gmgraves said:

There is no light to see. Nothing is perfect and everything can be bettered. Technology marches on. When I first tried the Yiggy, it was the best bang for the buck. I never considered it the best DAC in the world. The dCS Vivaldi or the uber expensive MSB DAC probably vie for that honor. Certainly the Chord Hugo2/Quetest holds the honor as the most revealing DACs under Five Grand (in my opinion, of course).

That's what I said - I fully understand the difference between entry level and more advanced item from Chord. Nevertheless, Mojo is very good small DAC for its price. 

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3 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

So is the Schiit Modi Multibit for $249, but I wouldn’t try to compare it to a Yggdrasil or a Chord Hugo2 either.

 

One would compare anything with anything. With results mostly influenced by one's expectation+imagination. What is even more important, immediate impression (and wow factor) most probably will vanish over certain and not very long period of time and listening perception will be more or less back to what it was before and ever. And which is more importantly depends on what one listens rather than how. Any decent DAC will perform sufficiently. "Everything can be bettered" is a dead-end idea, imho.

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1 hour ago, manisandher said:

[...]

When I pointed out the flaws in the Yggy's sound (backed up with measurements) [...]

 

Measurements would support someone who has purely mechanical approach to things or life itself vs. ability of grasp life organically, beyond all measurements. Do you select your wine because your choice supported by measurements? Do you like your day because weather measures perfect? 

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12 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Measurements take care of distortion being out of the way where distortion should not be. This is from the other thread I indirectly talked about the same:

 

Measurement is also about measuring THD of a 19Hz tone which should be inaudible because we human can not hear a frequency of 20Hz and lower. THD measurement can show the level of distortion. Now, coincidentally measuring a speaker for this sub-low output without audible distortion can be done by listening. It is a rare exception and it very convenient for understanding in general. So say that 

a. THD measurement shows 4% (of which we know it is audible and thus is regarded to be too much in the first place);

b. The 19Hz output is audible and thus shows 38Hz (2nd harmonic) or 57Hz (3rd).

 

Do you really think it helps to leave out #a hence don't measure or don't read the THD specs and think #b will be inaudible because of that ?

Unless you like distortion of course.

 

On a side note and FYI I was the one who measured the chip used in that Eggy 2 years before Schiit started to provide it per means of that DAC. It showed a THD (1000Hz) which was twice as bad (6dB) as it should be. Of course people claimed that the particular anomaly was for sure inaudible. Sure. Odd then that its special sound was a bit too special to some's liking and that the THD could be pointed out easily.

For those who were there: I don't think I provided my own THD measurements regarding this, because the glitching in order could be shown from the Yggdrasil the very same as my own scope output from the chip, which I *did* show.

 

Maybe it also tells something that some stupid like me designs around the chip in question, to 2 years later give up on the by then ready hardware. I suppose I could have sold it to you for a nice price ? (I still have the prototype DAC of it).

 

I hope this was a real life answer. Quite organic - both feet on the ground as well.

 

Things first have to measure well. If measurements are OK but next it doesn't sound well, then a. something is wrong with the measurements but b. then it fails and bad luck (this latter I never experienced, but alas).

If things measure poorly (which relates to references or (your own) standards), and next we'd claim it sounds well, we are just stupid. And that was the Yggy story. All it did was encouraging for responses like yours. They don't help a single soul, apart from maybe American chauvinism. And then ... in the end it was all about that. Can happen today too. No big deal. The French are better at "chauvinism" anyway. Haha.

But that doesn't make measurement unjustified.

 

 

Thank you for very detailed reply. 'Measurements important' vs. 'measurements not important at all' is a philosophical question. And most arguments supporting both positions here would be viewed as a pure rhetoric from both sides. I live cold part of the year in India for years. This place would be considered as extremely "noisy" and even "distorted" if conventional Westerner's view, habits and value system taken into account. Still I personally prefer it over any Western country...)

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10 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

I understand. But wouldn't it be even nicer for you if India was colder throughout the year ?

(with less sand dust on top of it :))

 

 

I believe temperature or dust (measurable or quantifiable) has nothing to do with reasons to be there.

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12 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

You know nothing about me, so just stick to the topic at hand.

 

I had the Yggy (pre Gen 5 USB) here for an extended period of time and it sounded flawed to me - pretty awful actually. I looked into its measurements and found them wanting. I shared my thoughts here and the Schiit fanboys blew their fuses. At least two were banned... returned under new names... and were banned again. One of them has been banned at least three times, under different names. Says pretty much all you need to know about Schiit fanboys.

 

If you're happy with your Gungnir Multibit, that's great. I've never heard one, so can't/won't comment on it.

 

Mani.

 

I was not addressing you personally, hope you able to grasp this. But wait, it is not measurable, sorry...

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26 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

Hang on. You quoted me:

 

 

Then you wrote this immediately after:

 

 

But you weren't addressing me? Perhaps you should improve your writing skills? Can you grasp that?

 

Mani.

 

"You" was rhetoric. Yes, my English is very far from perfect, it is not my mother tongue.

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2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

In general ? yes. But I suppose this is a bit culture related. It can also be called "protective". But if you were there during this larger thread about the Yggdrasil, if did not go that way at all. Instead Mani just asked a question about that DAC, actually about its unique sound which seemed not right to him, next people started to rant against him because that could not be (obviously those people where from the USA, Schiits home land) and when Mani found those measurements it now definitely 100% fir sure could not be wrong, because what was shown - again most defintely - could not be audible.

Then a kind of hell broke loose, where our gmgraves took the lead in stating that Mani head to have too much of golden ears etc. etc. and our Schiit heads where jumping on him all over too. But it did not work really well for them because, say, I was there too and I knew about the chip. Obviously Mani and me worked together now, Mani receiving a lot of money from me or whatever. But it was all in people's minds because nothing of the kind was going on, especially not because my measurements were from two years earlier already.

So it is all the other way around, and it is a bit sad to see that gmgraves doesn't even give in really while he was the biggest stoker at the time.

 

Posts like this one keep on recurring and in aftermath it seems the hottest subject next to MQA, here on A/S. This is about the UNjustice done.

Also easy to see how Mani easily gets angry to everybody even slightly twisting the subject against him or his findings of back then.

 

The vendetta thing could have grown from accidentally me (Phasure) again being the provider of Mani's DAC and a few more things, but this is just a coincidence. That I wanted to use the chip of concern is also sheer coincidence with the sour thing of that just failed because of the very same poor measurement everybody rejected (hey, you did so too in this very thread - indirectly of course). Nobody even knew I was working with that chip as I kept it a secret (until I quit the project and just never told about it).

As a matter of fact for me it was fun to be of help when Mani wondered what could be wrong with the Yggdrasil. How could he know that. Also, how could I know that this chip was used in there. But I found out.

 

Vendettas often are in peoples minds. Nice for movies.

But by now it starts to emerge for real. As in "see, I was right all the time". A personal thing.

I ? I don't care. Well, maybe, because if a customer buys an other DAC which replaces ours, I am involved of course. And someone like Mani some times do that and try. And then of course it is nice to have the conformation that the trial did not work out and you still "have the best".

 

If you look closely you can lose friends by it. One Phasure customer (somehow we are all friends) *did* get himself the Yggdrasil. If you'd know his handle and see Mani talk to him and know about this, you can see the snarking. OK, you won't but I do. Mani is a kind of pissed that it could happen (wrong decision to is mind) and I am only a bit sad and never spent a word about it.

I suppose the whole subject is more loaded than people can see. It will also be more loaded than gmgraves will realize. But he must understand that he is the upside down vendetta guy. And the fact that I referred to a "reviewer" is even more loaded than much loaded.

 

Many things going on some times, invisible to the unknown.

Btw, this should be off topic.

 

Peter

 

Thank you for going in length to explain your perspective on this. I am not even slightly involved in all these things, never knew and never was interested at all. Didn't know about professional interest of those involved in discussion. My personal outlook tells me to say a few good words if you do like something or someone and stay away and keep silent if you don't. Given the level of long term involvement of some people here in the matter someone would be easily irritated by rather neutral comments of those not in the know. Noted.

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