Advise on front end system changes...

[Cyrus]

I've been developing my system for the past 2 years and have finalized on my speaker and amplification choices. 

 

A snapshot of my system is in my signature.

 

Looking for guidance and advice on my front end components / front end approach(es).

 

Source: Tidal/Qobuz // Roon

Server: Small Green Computer

Player: Sonore Signature Rendu SE

DAC: Denafrips Terminator

 

Goals are focused on further system development and continued progress in achieving realism.

 

I'm not specifying a budget so that the feedback can be open ended.

 

Thank You!

[Ralf11]

just a couple of general guidelines:

 

1. think in terms of a dirty (noisey) side and a clean side

2. don't worry about the dirty side

3. the two sides can be isolated from each other to a very high degree by using some way to galvanically isolate them

4. the DAC you plan to use may be able to do this itself - it appears some do and some don't

5. if not, then wireless or optical will isolate the two sides, as will various items on the market now, or soon to be announced

 

Finally, you may want to ensure low noise AC feeds to items on the clean side, including the DAC - e.g. LED lights, heat pumps, your fridge or even things outside your house that put noise on the AC line.  There is a long thread on the Topaz transformer which is a cost-effective way to do this (tho you may not need to)

 

best wishes

[Cyrus]

@Ralf11

 

Thank you.

 

I'm leaning towards an optical solution. Any suggestions in this area?

 

I've also (semi) isolated with wireless, however, I will be evaluating approaches comparing wireless to wired at the Router level.

 

I'm running a dedicated line from the breaker to the audio room, specifically to the audio equipment. Do you still recommend working on the AC feed?

[Ralf11]

@jabbr has a complete thread on optical - I'm just a lowly WiFi guy

 

a dedicated line can help; but an isolation transformer (e.g. Topaz) can still help - I say 'can' as it may or may not...

 

Why not have a chat with Denefrips on what will make their DAC the happiest?  Some DCs seem to be very well isolated, while others are susceptible.  No data on whether high cost is correlated with that either...

[Cyrus]

@Ralf11  I'll check out @jabbr 's optical thread.

 

Good point re checking with Denafrips. I'll do so.

 

Thank you!

[audiobomber]

Try blocking the 5V feed from your USB cable. My (self-powered) DAC benefitted significantly from this little tweak.

[Panelhead]

  You can try a Corning fiber USB cable. I am using their Thunderbolt cable for the isolation offered. 

[jabbr]

On 5/23/2019 at 8:58 PM, Cyrus said:

@Ralf11  I'll check out @jabbr 's optical thread.

 

Good point re checking with Denafrips. I'll do so.

 

Thank you!

 

Looks like you have Sonore/SGC system ... they have a new fiberoptic ethernet input that should be a great optical system for you.

[Cyrus]

@jabbr  Upgrading my Signature Rendu SE and moving to optical with SGC/Sonore is my first and primary option. 

 

I'm asking (generally) via this thread, in case there are other options and approaches I need to (should) consider prior to moving forward with the SGC/Sonore solution.

 

Can you advise on any, in addition to SGC/Sonore? Thanks.

[jabbr]

30 minutes ago, Cyrus said:

@jabbr  Upgrading my Signature Rendu SE and moving to optical with SGC/Sonore is my first and primary option. 

 

I'm asking (generally) via this thread, in case there are other options and approaches I need to (should) consider prior to moving forward with the SGC/Sonore solution.

 

Can you advise on any, in addition to SGC/Sonore? Thanks.

I've been building/configuring my own fiberoptic endpoints for years. I'd get a good 10G switch than can accept 1g SFP modules (the 10g switches have better clocks). If you don't want to do much work yourself eg get a ClearFog then go for the Sonore solution.

[4est]

On 5/23/2019 at 8:22 AM, Cyrus said:

I've been developing my system for the past 2 years and have finalized on my speaker and amplification choices. 

 

A snapshot of my system is in my signature.

 

Looking for guidance and advice on my front end components / front end approach(es).

 

Source: Tidal/Qobuz // Roon

Server: Small Green Computer

Player: Sonore Signature Rendu SE

DAC: Denafrips Terminator

 

Goals are focused on further system development and continued progress in achieving realism.

 

I'm not specifying a budget so that the feedback can be open ended.

 

Thank You!

Although this may not seem like a viable option, have you considered adding in HQPlayer as an upsampler and/or PCM>DSD converter? You never stated exactly what you were sending to the DAC, but IIRC the Rendu can be an HQPlayer NAA(endpoint). There are many who feel that HQPlayer offers superior algorithms to Roon and DAC hardware (internal chip upsampling and DSD conversion) if you wish to step things up a notch. In this suggestion, you would need the HQPlayer license and possibly a new server if you care to send  PCM>DSD. Myself and others have been enjoying that PCM>DSD on similar DACs. Food for thought from someone who at one time was only interested in sending Redbook straight through to a DAC... Ive been using Qobuz(previously Tidal ☹️)

[Cyrus]

11 hours ago, 4est said:

have you considered adding in HQPlayer as an upsampler and/or PCM>DSD converter?

 

@4est  Great point. I've toyed with doing so, but have held off. It's definitely something I need to (should) implement and I plan to in the future. As you mention, it will also influence my server choice. Thanks!

[Cyrus]

21 hours ago, jabbr said:

I'd get a good 10G switch than can accept 1g SFP modules

 

@jabbr  Thank you. I will implement what you suggest. It also allows for physical separation of the modem, router and switch from my audio room (and makes things easier in terms of setup).

[miguelito]

On 5/23/2019 at 8:58 PM, Cyrus said:

@Ralf11  I'll check out @jabbr 's optical thread.

 

Good point re checking with Denafrips. I'll do so.

 

Thank you!

John Darko mentioned in a review that the Denafrips sounded better over SPDIF than USB... So you might consider that. 

[Cyrus]

Would this be a viable option? Ease of setup/use? >>  MikroTik hAP AC

 

https://mikrotik.com/product/RB962UiGS-5HacT2HnT

[4est]

1 hour ago, Cyrus said:

 

@4est  Great point. I've toyed with doing so, but have held off. It's definitely something I need to (should) implement and I plan to in the future. As you mention, it will also influence my server choice. Thanks!

You have not said what files you send, but you really ought to give it a go. Your SGC will likely do DSD256- enough to see if that route is something you wish to invest in. For any PCM, it is most likely fine. It would fulfill obj and subjective initiatives too fwiw. There is a steep initial effort curve, but once you learn what filters you like, it is set and forget. Miska/Jussi and the users are very responsive and helpful if you struggle.

[Cyrus]

6 hours ago, 4est said:

You have not said what files you send

 

Thanks for you post.

 

I'm solely running Tidal and Qobuz via Roon, without DSP.  I'm also solely using the NOS mode on the Denafrips.

 

I know that I need to 'play' with the software (within Roon) as well as move to HQPlayer (or equivalent) and evaluate.

 

My reason for holding back has to do with developing my system (with a primary focus on the major components) first and achieving the synergies I am looking for, BEFORE 'optimizing' via software (i.e. as a late stage step). Is this incorrect, both in terms of process and WHEN I should be 'applying' the software solutions/approaches?

[Cyrus]

8 hours ago, miguelito said:

John Darko mentioned in a review that the Denafrips sounded better over SPDIF than USB

 

@miguelito  I've been working with USB for such a long time that I've been (am) 'captive' from a legacy perspective. Other input approaches are on the table, depending on whether I stay with Denafrips or go with another DAC.

 

Denafrips has advised I2S as a preferred input. This has it's own upstream implications (for me).   : )

[4est]

12 hours ago, Cyrus said:

 

Thanks for you post.

 

I'm solely running Tidal and Qobuz via Roon, without DSP.  I'm also solely using the NOS mode on the Denafrips.

 

I know that I need to 'play' with the software (within Roon) as well as move to HQPlayer (or equivalent) and evaluate.

 

My reason for holding back has to do with developing my system (with a primary focus on the major components) first and achieving the synergies I am looking for, BEFORE 'optimizing' via software (i.e. as a late stage step). Is this incorrect, both in terms of process and WHEN I should be 'applying' the software solutions/approaches?

I am not sure I understand what you might be waiting for TBH. This is not a "software upgrade" in the likes of how many player programs have a sound, but a true upgrade to the actual analog signal by using the computational power of a PC to construct higher precision waveforms than what can be made using the average FPGA or DAC chip. YMMV of course, but people aren't using HQPlayer for its looks alone! FWIW, the different filter options actually allow one to "optimize synergy", not negate it.

[miguelito]

16 hours ago, Cyrus said:

 

@miguelito  I've been working with USB for such a long time that I've been (am) 'captive' from a legacy perspective. Other input approaches are on the table, depending on whether I stay with Denafrips or go with another DAC.

 

Denafrips has advised I2S as a preferred input. This has it's own upstream implications (for me).   : )

Understood. I2S is essentially coax with a separate clock. But if anything, a streamer with I2S will be hard to find (there are some like the Wyred4Sound but really...).