Do you have a multimeter?

[mitchco]

Vintage Armaco AR20A circa 50s or 60s...

Beckman DM27xl circa 90

Used in building amps, preamps, headphone amps, checking continuity, resistance, bias adjust, etc.

[lucretius]

2 minutes ago, mitchco said:

Vintage Armaco AR20A circa 50s or 60s...

Beckman DM27xl circa 90

Used in building amps, preamps, headphone amps, checking continuity, resistance, bias adjust, etc.

 

That one on the right looks like the ones I used in high school. I cannot count how many of them I broke.

[beetlemania]

7 hours ago, yamamoto2002 said:

 

It is nice to have to build amplifiers, component sorting to allay anxiety 😁

 

I added an LCR meter to my collection when I recently built new crossovers.

[sphinxsix]

2 hours ago, SJK said:

The analog meter will blow up in your hands.  I speak from experience.  

Who would hold a multimeter like the one on the photo I posted in one's hands.? 

[esldude]

2 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Who would hold a multimeter like the one on the photo I posted in one's hands.? 

the Hulk.

[fas42]

8 hours ago, Paul R said:

I really miss Radio,Shack. Many a happy hour spent in those stores. Audio, electronics, computers... just everything. I do not think there are any stores like that any more. 

 

Downunder we have Jaycar, still expanding, more than 110 stores in our part of the world - the nerds' gift shop, par excellence.

 

https://www.jaycar.com.au/catalogue

[mourip]

13 hours ago, mansr said:

I admit there are features on my Fluke that I've never used.

 

I have had my Fluke for easily 25 years and 90% of my troubleshooting with it is for either continuity or simple DC voltage measurement.

 

It has other features? 🙂

[fas42]

People who are obsessed with level matching don't understand how to listen to a rig when assessing it; if your car engine is making a strange noise, that shouldn't be there, do you have to carefully distance yourself from it, so that the "volume level is right". No ... there's a sound that shouldn't be present, and once you are aware of it, you have zero problems picking it up.

 

That's exactly how I "measure" audio systems - the multimeter is used to find out whether the voltages, and resistances are of the right magnitudes, nothing more.

[STC]

4 hours ago, Sonicularity said:

The "OMG that sounds amazing!" moment becomes "seems the same to me" when I match the volume.

 

If you level match an inferior amp to a superior one, you probably not going going to hear my difference. But push the superior amp level to a higher level where the THD and response still below audible level and compare it to the inferior amp, the difference becomes apparent. 

 

Level matching is only useful as long they are within electrical signal domain but the moment you  measure acoustic transmission level then you are confounded with  your wobbly head and mood where it is no longer becomes relevant and can give false results. 

 

I know it is confusing. But let’s take a stereo and a multi channel system. If you want to compare the sound, it is possible to level match them using a pink noise and a microphone at a listening position but it will not sound level matched to your ears. 

 

I know it is making no sense but I am in such a situation. 

[Sonicularity]

25 minutes ago, fas42 said:

People who are obsessed with level matching don't understand how to listen to a rig when assessing it; if your car engine is making a strange noise, that shouldn't be there, do you have to carefully distance yourself from it, so that the "volume level is right". No ... there's a sound that shouldn't be present, and once you are aware of it, you have zero problems picking it up.

 

That's exactly how I "measure" audio systems - the multimeter is used to find out whether the voltages, and resistances are of the right magnitudes, nothing more.

 

I don't know.  Maybe consider volume matching like using a 1/4-mile dragstrip as one parameter to gauge the performance of a car's engine.   Sure, you might be able to get some rough idea about how fast it might go by looks and sounds, but I don't know how anyone can trust their ears alone to be able to judge engine performance unless they have taken some steps to verify what they hear is reliable and accurate.

[Sonicularity]

13 minutes ago, STC said:

 

If you level match an inferior amp to a superior one, you probably not going going to hear my difference. But push the superior amp level to a higher level where the THD and response still below audible level and compare it to the inferior amp, the difference becomes apparent. 

 

Level matching is only useful as long they are within electrical signal domain but the moment you  measure acoustic transmission level then you are confounded with  your wobbly head and mood where it is no longer becomes relevant and can give false results. 

 

I know it is confusing. But let’s take a stereo and a multi channel system. If you want to compare the sound, it is possible to level match them using a pink noise and a microphone at a listening position but it will not sound level matched to your ears. 

 

I know it is making no sense but I am in such a situation. 

 

This is how I did it.  I had a cheap O2 amp and Schiit Asgard 2 amp.  I connected the multimeter between one of the amps and my Denon AD-D5000 cans, picked a cool song I loved, and turned up the volume as loud as I would ever really want to listen for no more than 15 seconds or so.  I leave the volume knob alone, stop the music, and play the generated sine wave from Audacity, and note the reading on the multimeter.  I swapped the amp, played the sine wave from audacity and adjusted the volume on the amp to match the reading taken from the other amp.  I played that cool song I loved again with the other amp at a really loud volume for about 15 seconds.  Was there any obvious distortion?  No?  

 

There is more to it than that, but that is a general idea.  I ended up having to cut out the gain resistors on my O2 amp as it was clipping at the input stage that could not be controlled by lowering the volume of the output.

[fas42]

12 minutes ago, Sonicularity said:

 

I don't know.  Maybe consider volume matching like using a 1/4-mile dragstrip as one parameter to gauge the performance of a car's engine.   Sure, you might be able to get some rough idea about how fast it might go by looks and sounds, but I don't know how anyone can trust their ears alone to be able to judge engine performance unless they have taken some steps to verify what they hear is reliable and accurate.

 

See, the big difference there is that you're measuring the amount of "goodness" a product genuinely has - if nothing is actually faulty then a 1/4-mile dragstrip is fine for assessing how good one is compared to the other. I'm the person who can pick that the engine is misfiring, because of a fuel line blockage - and therefore all the potential is not available; because of a "silly problem".

[Sonicularity]

3 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

See, the big difference there is that you're measuring the amount of "goodness" a product genuinely has - if nothing is actually faulty then a 1/4-mile dragstrip is fine for assessing how good one is compared to the other. I'm the person who can pick that the engine is misfiring, because of a fuel line blockage - and therefore all the potential is not available; because of a "silly problem".

 

I think if we are discussing the subtle difference between amps that measure similarly on paper, or at least within the design specifications of the transducers the amp is intended to drive, volume level matching could be important. 

 

You appear to have abilities that are above and beyond most everyone else.  The rest of us need a little help on occasion.

[fas42]

12 minutes ago, Sonicularity said:

 

You appear to have abilities that are above and beyond most everyone else.  The rest of us need a little help on occasion.

 

Not really. Everyone knows what it's like listening to a rig that may be very impressive, do some things spectacularly well - but just doesn't "sound right" at times. I'm someone who notes those moments, and from experience guestimates what may be the cause - and then, most importantly, follows through ... it's the tracking down of why it doesn't "sound right" that makes for getting results,

[lucretius]

Wow!  I never suspected that over 95% here own multimeters.

[Ralf11]

Neither did the guy who said all of us idiots couldn't be trusted to use one even if we did.  He used to be a chef I think, cooked up telly corn or something.

[Paul R]

2 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Downunder we have Jaycar, still expanding, more than 110 stores in our part of the world - the nerds' gift shop, par excellence.

 

https://www.jaycar.com.au/catalogue

 

Well, dang!  How cool! 

 

Here's what we are missing now. Notice the "Dream System" on page 1! 

 

http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1978/hindex_050_001-050.html

 

 

 

[mav52]

I have a Fluke and an old Simpson 260 

[fas42]

21 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

Well, dang!  How cool! 

 

Here's what we are missing now. Notice the "Dream System" on page 1! 

 

http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1978/hindex_050_001-050.html

 

 

 

 

Hey! I've got a Realistic digital FM tuner out in the shed, which last time I tried it, oohh, decades ago, was pretty  damn good - looked sharp too!

[esldude]

1 hour ago, lucretius said:

Wow!  I never suspected that over 95% here own multimeters.

I would have guessed about 80%.  So 95% isn't that surprising.  Maybe a little self selection going on here.  But obviously multimeter ownership is not rare.

 

I've several.  A couple Fluke's, a VTVM from Heathkit, a couple cheap ones and one of these. 

 

And one of the RS meters with RS232 connections.  So you could use a PC to monitor output readings. 

 

[PeterSt]

10+ or so and each with its purpose - a/w a Keysight 6.5 digit as well as a pure analogue one.

I think we know what to do with them (like using several at the same time ).

 

OK, count me out.

[sandyk]

6 hours ago, lucretius said:

Wow!  I never suspected that over 95% here own multimeters.

  They don't.

Have a close look at the names of the posters and look at some of their posts and you will see that almost all of the respondents come from a technical background, or are well into DIY ,with many being qualified E.Es. and most are regular posters in the General area where most of the tech types prefer to hang out together.

 They are NOT your average member who isn't in the least interested in  the measurement side of things, no matter how much Dennis would like to believe. 

The typical Audiophile doesn't give a damn about the measurement side of things, and is only interested in getting the best bang for their buck , and the enjoyment of music.

Personally, I have a foot in both camps.

As well as which, several of the respondents here even do measurements BEFORE listening to the actual music, and have already made up their mind how it is likely to sound.  

 

This poll is useless and proves 5/8 of S.F.A.

[Richard Dale]

13 minutes ago, sandyk said:

  They don't.

Have a close look at the names of the posters and look at some of their posts and you will see that almost all of the respondents come from a technical background, or are well into DIY ,with many being qualified E.Es. and most are regular posters in the General area where most of the tech types prefer to hang out together.

 They are NOT your average member who isn't in the least interested in  the measurement side of things, no matter how much Dennis would like to believe. 

The typical Audiophile doesn't give a damn about the measurement side of things, and is only interested in getting the best bang for their buck , and the enjoyment of music.

Personally, I have a foot in both camps.

As well as which, several of the respondents here even do measurements BEFORE listening to the actual music, and have already made up their mind how it is likely to sound.  

 

This poll is useless and proves 5/8 of S.F.A.

I do own a multimeter and use it very occasionally. I agree it isn''t a particularly important tool for most audiophiles, but they start at such low prices that there is no point in not having one.

 

I've recently bought a UMIK-1 measuring mic and use it with REW and an AudioTools app on my iPad. In my opinion that combination is way more useful as a tool for more technically orientated audiophiles than a multimeter.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

I do own a multimeter and use it very occasionally. I agree it isn''t a particularly important tool for most audiophiles, but they start at such low prices that there is no point in not having one.

 

Agreed, but they are very limited in their functions with many not even able to test transistors for functionality or HFE, let alone do dB measurements.

[PeterSt]

13 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

I agree it isn''t a particularly important tool for most audiophiles,

 

If I try to take distance, even from when I was at the age of ten helping my father with "repairing" his reel to reel decks and self made amplifiers and my own building of my first stereo from two lamp radios, building a TT and of course speakers, and also avoiding my always fully automated (with relais) model railroad endeavours from of the age of 11 ...

 

So then for mere normal audio:

 

Measuring the health of fuses;

Measuring the end to end connection of (self made) cables;

Measuring the difference in ground potential between devices (but can be done by carious means);

Measuring the resistance of color coded resistors because I never learned the codes by heart;

Measuring whether 230V applies although I got fairy much used to just briefly touch by hand;

Measuring the DC Offset of output channels.

 

Maybe I forgot something obvious. But I recall coming over at houses where I soon needed a multimeter to help out with whatever, and could not believe people did not even have such a necessity of life in their houses.