Value, lack there of, and "High End"

[gmgraves]

I've long suspected that the prices of "high-end" audio equipment is in large measure set by the "whatever the traffic will bear" philosophy of pricing. Unlike Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Audi R8s and the like, there is little correlation between the cost of audio components and their performance in many cases. I don't know if this still holds true, but using the formula that the retail cost of an item should be six times the build cost, I have to wonder how much of the cost of high end components is tied up in the "bling" of the fancy CNC aluminum casework in components like the dCS Vivaldi DAC. I recently saw damn good evidence that this is largely the case. Lumin sells a "Network Transport" (a music streamer sans DAC) called the U1. This puppy comes in two separate and very fancy cabinets. one for the unit itself and another for the separate power supply. It's about $6000. They also sell a U1"mini".  The only difference I can see between the two is that the "Mini" doesn't have the power supply in a separate cabinet (it is the same circuit board however!) and the case that the power supply and main circuit board share is much simpler and less fancy than the full size U1. The list price of the U1 "mini"? $2000! That means that at the retail pricing level, the two separate enclosures account for FOUR thousand of the U1's $6000 price tag! That's pretty good (if a more than a little blatant) evidence of my suspicions RE High-End audio. 

[gmgraves]

12 hours ago, esldude said:

Allard J2X.....now there's an easy car to drive..........hahahahha!

 

There is the thing a few years back about doctors and twin engine airplanes.  (Not a dig at you bluesman).  A flight instructor explained quite logically how mostly doctors had the money for them.  But those can be hard to fly especially if you have trouble.  And doctors are pressed for time and don't have time to become proficient.  So it was a cliche whenever a twin Beechcraft crashed to ask, " so which doctor was it?"

No car that has a chassis that flexes as much as the Allard’s is easy to drive. 

Fun car though!

[gmgraves]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

Lots of it. Anthony Michelson (formerly of Musical Fidelity) said that in a traditional dealer pipeline, as much as 70% of the retail price was due to cosmetics. Those fancy specially designed  machined knobs cost over  $100 each at the wholesale level for the manufacturer....

Fortunately or unfortunately, the looks also sell. Most of the people in the market for 5 and 6 figure components also want them to look like they are very expensive. They may care about the sound, but not just. 
 

A few years ago there was a post somewhere by the high end speaker maker who debuted an $80k pair at Munich. Very  good, but conventional looking model.
He got little interest and they didn't sell well. The next year he did a minor redesign, made a much more expensive looking cabinet, priced them at $200k and they were already selling well at the show. Sound wise basically the same speaker; cosmetics wise - not. People wanted their high end speaker to look the part. Apparently the lesson is that at a certain price level you have to have an expensive look and people are willing to pay for it. 

That’s my point. I buy performance, not bling. Maybe the answer is for more companies to make two versions of the same component. One version with enclosures like those dCS makes, and another version which is, circuit-wise, exactly the same, but has Van Alstine or Schiit types of casework with Van Alstine or Schiit style pricing. You want dCS bling along with your dCS sound? Fine. You pay for it. I just want the performance and the sound and don’t give a whit about the looks. Why should I have to pay for “bling” that I don’t care about, and which makes up as much as 70 - 80% of the unit’s retail price when all I care about is what the component can do?

[gmgraves]

On 5/16/2019 at 4:19 PM, Blackmorec said:

Wow, we disagree fairly comprehensively it seems. 

First lets look at components that’ll find their way into truly high end gear........heavy copper or milled aluminium chassis, special internal silver or 7N copper cables, high-end plugs and sockets, Mundorf and other speciality capacitors,  multi-rail linear power supplies, NOS vacuum tubes,  specially formed and wound transformers, double regulators, premium, selected and matched components, anti-vibration footers etc. Take a look at the cross-over from a YG or Magico speaker and compare it to the regular mass market components. Totally different ball park. Look at the driver materials like graphene, high intensity neodymium magnets, beryllium diamond coated tweeters,  carbon fibre, aluminium or composite enclosures, constrained layer damping technologies etc. Very different technology 

The important question to ask here is whether all that silver, milled aluminum, and 7N copper or high end plugs and sockets results in better sound and/or reliability?

Personally, I’ve never had a tinned RCA socket fail. When cleaned with a good contact cleaner and coated with Stabilant 22A, as long as one isn’t the type who plugs and unplugs cables on their components habitually, there shouldn’t be any difference between a less expensive, yet competently made RCA socket than an expensive one like a WBT. And the gold on these connectors is merely jewelry from a practicality standpoint.

On 5/16/2019 at 4:19 PM, Blackmorec said:

 

As for trickle down, all you need do is look at the tax take for various categories and you’ll find that ever more people are being hit with high rate tax, inheritance tax etc. As wealth trickles down people earn more (wage growth) and therefore pay more tax. A fact

Take a look at where most of the fastest growing economies are located. Africa. Take a look at the rate of growth in India, Pakistan, Vietnam....the poorest countries have the fastest growth......trickle down 

 

 

I suspect the fast growth of these poor, third world countries has more to do with how far they have to climb than it has to do with any trickle-down Reaganomics!