Double Blind Testing Prices All Power Cords Have An Effect On Audio!!!!!

[fas42]

Over the years I've played with quite a variety of noise reducing strategies on cables; line filters, IOW - including one which was so petite that I could probably squeeze into the cord itself somehow, .

 

The big trick is to consider everything in your rig that's tied together electrically, or is close to some electrical 'noise', to be part of one, holistic circuit. As a thought experiment, coil up your power lead inside the case of your gear somehow, and just have the plug sticking out the back, and butt up the cabinet to the socket in the wall to plug it in - not quite so magically irrelevant to the SQ, now, hmmm?

 

I use versions of Paul's simple trick all the time, as a sloppy "does it make a difference??" ...

[fas42]

6 hours ago, barrows said:

10-4, one thing to be aware of is how a filter network might, or might not, interact with the component it is plugged into.  Quite a few audio components have such a filter built in at their AC input; depending on parts values, filter networks like these joined together from AC cable to component can have bad interactions (resonances) sometimes.  Given this possibility, I suspect that the use of these cables with some components may produce undesirable results.  I would suggest anyone trying a cable like this with a built in filter, to try before before they commit to purchasing.  The same holds true for most passive line conditioners, although to a lesser extent (as the filter networks are going to be somewhat damped by the resistance of the power cable).  Ideally, the AC line, power conditioner, power cable, and component would be considered as a Network, and designed to work together to provide whatever filtering effect is necessary for best performance, but of course, in most cases, this is not possible.

These kind of interactions are likely responsible for the variable success of power cables, and line conditioners in different systems and with different components: always remember that the AC line, AC conditioner, power cable, and the AC input circuit of a component is a system, and everything needs to work together copacetically to produce good results.  Just because a reviewer might give power cable A an amazing review, does not necessarily mean it will have the same result in your system.

 

Yes. The power cord with included filtering action, in combination with the device it's feeding is a single circuit; the behaviours can't be separated - adding bits and pieces ad hoc is at the level of an automotive enthusast, who says, I know! I'll improve my engine by chucking in the power injection system of a Jaguar, the computer from a Ferrari, and the radiator of a Lamborghini; all that Extra Goodness is bound to make my car very special!

[fas42]

Yes, electrons have no class - they don't get that well behaved members of their mob should stay inside the blingy outsides of their box; and that the badly behaved fellows should take note of the Do Not Enter! signs at the various holes in the back ...

[fas42]

A less radical way is with berries ...

 

 

[fas42]

These conversations are highly amusing - directly correlate with the worried home owner who installs extra heavy duty locks on his front door, installs security cameras pointing down on this spot. And responds when a neighbour asks has he done anything about the back of the house, "That's not as important; bad guys will always try to get in the front way ..."

 

Unfortunately, electrons are very even handed in their ways of dealing with 'obstacles'.

[fas42]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

The problem with vague meaningless statements is that they don’t take into account physics. None of this has to do with “electrons” per se except for their participation in electromagnetic waves.

 

My light comments about dealing with the weakest link don't take, I see - from my POV, I see most audio rigs as laughable, having very obvious "flimsy back doors" - with the owners believing that the magic of extra bling takes care of that ... to rephrase things, physics is very even handed in its way of dealing with 'obstacles' ...

[fas42]

1 hour ago, Paul R said:

 

Lighten up a bit Frank, you have certainly built an interesting way to get a wonderful sound system, but there *are* other ways, including just throwing enough money at it to get it right.  And "right" seems to be a very fluid target these days, but at the end of any given day, what makes you happy, what makes you smile, what your wife does not kill you over? All good stuff. 

 

-Paul 

 

 

 

Cultural differences come in - I was being light, actually .

 

Yes, money can do it, and always has been able to; best LP playback I've heard, over 30 years ago, was from a slightly lesser, copy of the famous HP rig of the time.

 

I would beg to differ on "right" being fluid; what a fully competent rig - not something I have right now - delivers is:

 

1) Completely invisible speakers, from anywhere in the space, or room

2) The ability to go to any sane level of SPLs with complete assurance, "effortless" is the word to think of here. This means that it can deliver an orchestral crescendo with absolute authority, no excuses needed; or the correct impact of a drum kit only feet away from one

3) The tonality never wavers from perfectly mimicking real world sounds, "naturalness" is what comes to mind

4) All recordings show of their very best; even the most down trodden reveals remarkable insight into the musical event that was recorded; and can be fully enjoyed, the presentation is completely satisfying

[fas42]

55 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 From my own observations, it appears that many (most?) wives like an unobtrusive system that they can have on while they carry on a normal level conversation !

 

Bev gets a real buzz out of what I do - has for 30 years. And she especially likes the rig to have limitless grunt - I have to apologise for the fact that the limits have been reached, because of gain setup and clipping restrictions.

 

It all depends on the compression level of the recordings - modern pop efforts easily make it impossible to converse, because the average SPLs are just too great.

[fas42]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

She would also need to like the smell of soldering flux as you solder up all your interconnects, speaker cables, mains cables etc. 

 

Yes, that's the problem with soldering ... you have to do it every month or so - unlike push on connectors which maintain integrity over indefinite periods of time ...

[fas42]

51 minutes ago, marce said:

What a load of rubbish.

 

Tongue planted firmly in my cheek, to tease Alex - and it didn't register ... .

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16 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

 

In any case, it is a live and let live world. I have got to hear some of your systems some day.  

 

-Paul 

 

 

 

People bump into rigs getting most things right now and again - I've made it my shtick to try and work out exactly what needs to be done to get any particular setup working to the highest level of its potential; along the way I built up an understanding that all of the factors I mentioned in that post can come together, with no compromises.

 

IOW, any half decent combo of gear can be nudged into working to a highly satisfying standard, if the right areas are addressed.

[fas42]

I liken getting audio of high quality to doing a precision scientific measurement - in the latter, the greater the precision, and certainty desired, the more 'expensive' the effort will be - in time and/or expense - there are no shortcuts available, like just chucking in some extra visual bling, to try and push it over the line.

 

Science has some of the ultimate high end exercises in pushing the limits of "finding extra detail" - massively huge, massively expensive, to render "audible" a tiny, tiny thing ...

[fas42]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

 

...

 

 

[fas42]

11 hours ago, marce said:

This is measurable and if its altering the analogue output then the design is flawed.

 

The truth is that nearly all audio equipment is flawed, in the sense that it's susceptible to inteference effects which cause audible anomalies - carefully done measurements could reveal this, but no-one is interested in going there ...

[fas42]

9 hours ago, BrokeLinuxPhile said:

Sometimes things get grey for me while building my tube amps, they can be weird.  I make them sound better by listening carefully, measuring, and relying more on personal experience than book knowledge.  Some tubes like to run hot, some not, based on tube type the way they interact with other types changes.  It's challenging, that's why i love it so much they are difficult to characterize.

 

 

A story recounted in another forum I rather cherish - chap was involved with a show demo which used the eccentric Jadis valve amps. Not exactly brillantly made, this unit all of a sudden went into meltdown - the tubes flipped into furnace mode internally, blazing with ferocious light - the interesting bit was, the music, which was still going, had become glorious!! Best sound reproduction he had ever experienced; it was, for him, an epiphany.

 

Couldn't last of course ... after some minutes, the valves succumbed to their harikari ritual, and all was silent. Since then, he had never heard playback that impressive again ...

[fas42]

I find these conversations to be like a tribal dancing ceremony - a whole sequence of movements takes place, carefully choreographed, and completely predictable ... one side asserts that they "know everything", and the other that they don't; back and forth, back and forth, neither yielding an inch - until they retreat to the bar, satisfied that they have put in their daily quota; God's in His heaven ...

[fas42]

Promise?

[fas42]

What the SQ that I talk of features are very clearcut auditory behaviours - these are completely independent of mood, expectation bias, alcohol levels, etc, etc. They occurred 35 years ago, and they still occur now, when a rig is in sufficient tune - one is that it becomes impossible to locate the speaker drivers, that is, if a curtain were lowered directly in front of the baffles, and you were allowed to go anywhere right up to the curtain, you would not be able to point to the drivers' location; and another is that a mono recording follows one laterally across the room - this could easily be tested using strict experimental procedures, taking it completely out of the handwaving arena.