Double Blind Testing Prices All Power Cords Have An Effect On Audio!!!!!

[sandyk]

7 hours ago, Sam Lord said:

That comes from lower rise times at extremes of voltage and current.  Go ahead and measure, but bring some really good gear for the purpose.

 

 Then that won't help Class A amplifiers, especially those with Regulated PSUs.

[sandyk]

17 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

If all the other arguments fail to convince one of this simple fact, doubters and true believers alike

 

 George

 Yet once again you plain wrong about possible audible differences between interconnects, Coax SPDIF cables and even some power cables, both for A.C. and DC too.

 I didn't believe in differences between A.C. mains cables either until  expensive Mains cables on loan from a local HiiFi dealer were  substituted between a cheap Bunnings Hardware store power board and a couple of big Nelson Pass Class A monoblocks at one of our then regular listening sessions.

 All 5 present reported hearing small but worthwhile improvements with the very expensive mains cables under NON SIGHTED conditions.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

38 minutes ago, Paul R said:

In fact, I can clean the prongs on a power cable and hear a difference myself.

 

 If cleaning the prongs on a properly functioning A.C. mains cable results in a small improvement due to slightly lower resistance, then it stands to reason that a beefier power cable with lower resistance copper wire, and less flimsy plug contacts should also make a minor difference, especially in the USA and other countries where you need to draw around double the current from your lower mains voltage system compared with a nominal 230VAC 50HZ system. This is even more important with the high powered amplifiers many in the USA favour, compared with the generally lower power amplifiers favoured in many European countries where you often also have to consider the nearby neighbours  more.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, Paul R said:

A "beefier" power cord, beyond certain limits, is just not going to make any difference.

 

We are in general  agreement, however, where a high powered amplifier uses a very large amount of Filter capacitance this may come into play at sustained high power levels. With some amplifiers, even switching them on may cause a nearby table lamp to dim briefly.

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

. Perhaps the local oscillator on an FM tuner or receiver, but those are generally pretty well shielded to avoid interference in the IF  circuitry.

 George

 You claim to be an RF expert, so perhaps you can  give us some idea of the minute radiated level from the local oscillator in a typical metal cased tuner vs. reasonably close Stereo FM and TV transmitters.

 Their levels may be much higher than you wish to believe !

Years ago I lived several KM from 4 Analogue TV transmitters, yet the frame buzz from one got into the LM3886 (?) based amplifier via the speaker cables and NFB network.

 The cure was to wind the speaker cables through a big Toroid. 

 

Alex

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, Paul R said:

Yeah, I am being a little facetious, becuase who would want that stuff visible in their house? But in any case, even with 2-2-2 from the wall to the device, the rest of the house is probably just Romex, and the lights may still I'm for a second or so. They will just I'm a little faster!

 

BTW,  where I mentioned the lights dimming, the amplifier was on a 15A feed from the Fusebox, and the lamp , IIRC ,was on a separate circuit. A later amplifier had a "soft start" PCB where after a short delay, a relay operated and short circuited a series PW5 resistor.

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Paul R said:

 

Lighten up a bit Frank, you have certainly built an interesting way to get a wonderful sound system, but there *are* other ways, including just throwing enough money at it to get it right.  And "right" seems to be a very fluid target these days, but at the end of any given day, what makes you happy, what makes you smile, what your wife does not kill you over? All good stuff. 

 

-Paul 

 

 

 

I would be surprised if most wives knew just how much some of these fancy networked systems cost to implement, and whether they believed they were more worthwhile than a nice kitchen upgrade, or a more comfortable living room for the whole family ?

 From my own observations, it appears that many (most?) wives like an unobtrusive system that they can have on while they carry on a normal level conversation !

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

Bev gets a real buzz out of what I do - has for 30 years. And she especially likes the rig to have limitless grunt - I have to apologise for the fact that the limits have been reached, because of gain setup and clipping restrictions.

 

It all depends on the compression level of the recordings - modern pop efforts easily make it impossible to converse, because the average SPLs are just too great.

 

She would also need to like the smell of soldering flux as you solder up all your interconnects, speaker cables, mains cables etc. 

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

“The mind also HEARS what it wants to hear!”

 

 That applies especially to many of the Objective members of this forum !

[sandyk]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:05 PM, BrokeLinuxPhile said:

Emissions from modern PCs and LCDs is nothing in comparison to back in the 90's.

 

 But it has been replaced in many cases by cheap LED lighting SMPS power supplies.

[sandyk]

47 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Why just a couple of weeks ago a friend of mine brought over some ultra expensive power cord from Furutech. I explained to him how it was completely impossible for that cord to change the sound of his amplifier.    My amp had a different connector than his cord, so we used my headphone amp to test it.

 

 Come on George, that is a completely unfair way to verify any improvements from an  expensive mains cable designed to power HIGH CURRENT devices such as high power Power Amplifiers etc., not a piddling Headphone Amplifier!

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

More like separate contradicting realities that are both valid, but only within their corresponding personal universes.

 

You are completely missing the obvious. There are quite a few other members, including Peter and Mani, and other people from a couple of other forums that have also experienced AND verified MY Reality.

 George shares his reality along with members such as Mansr.

[sandyk]

17 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

That, Alex, is not sufficient evidence in my reality. The evidence that you sent me and others didn’t validate your claims, so perhaps our universes are just not compatible.

 I  made it perfectly clear that not everybody will be able to hear differences with uploaded files, and explained that my preference has for some time been to supply files on physical media. That is why I have on several occasions offered to supply BR discs with numerous pairs of 1920 x 1080 .mp4 music videos on them, yet NOBODY has shown any interest whatsoever from the Objective membership.

 

It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with our "individual" universes.  That is complete and utter fanciful bullshit.

 

It has everything to do with other things such as hearing abilities, the quality of the equipment used, AND especially  the ability to override long held Biases due to original training in these areas.

[sandyk]

39 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

That’s where our universes diverge, Alex. In mine, digital file download is exactly equivalent to physical media transfer of the same file, as long as the bits in the result are the same. No ifs ands or buts. Apparently that’s not true in yours. Thankfully, that is all explained by the quantum mechanics experiment I linked earlier

 

  Diverging Universes, is as I said previously, fanciful BS/Science Fiction , that is no more able to be conclusively confirmed than the existence of a Supreme being and life after death . (No, I am not an Atheist )

 

 I have way better things to do than further respond to your dogmatic claims, when it is so damn easy for me to prove they are incorrect

by way of direct demonstrations as I did previously for 2 qualified local E.E.s .

 

[sandyk]

57 minutes ago, Paul R said:

People live in their own self-contained reality

 

 Reality, YES, separate UNIVERSES, NO !

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, gmgraves said:

It’s not an assumption. It’s really quite simple. There is no way that something like a coaxial interconnect, for instance, can affect an audio signal, as low a frequency that it is without affecting signals - some of which could be life and death critical at higher frequencies. In which case they would have been studied and the reason for the anomalies would have long sense been found and either corrected or compensated for. That’s only common sense. 

 

 That may be your personal reality George, but it isn't the personal reality of many other people.

These days the equipment is usually way more revealing than back then.

 You only need to look at many older TV series compared with recent TV  series , or look at Music DVDs from the 80s and 90s compared even with modern .mp4 LOW Bit Rate YouTube videos

[sandyk]

55 minutes ago, mansr said:

 I don't see your colour names on the list for guys.

 Where are Black and White ?  

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

Black and White are not colors.

 

Tell that to Mansr. as that is all that he appears to see, just like yourself .

They are the Binary equivalent of turning an electric light on and off in the darkness .

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, gmgraves said:

it is naive (or arrogant) in the extreme to believe that some "unknown anomalies" would only affect a lowly audio signal and not affect anything in MegaHertz range and therefor possibly pose a potential danger in critical systems

 George

My BR comparison discs show that some "unknown anomaly" does just that .

 This anomaly affects both Digital Audio and Video.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

4 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

I like the way you and Alan F ignored the bulk of my post outlining the experiment which showed that there is absolutely no difference between the mains transmitted through a garden-variety IEC cable and an expensive Furutech DPS-4.1 cable. I wasn't discussing interconnects or USB cables, just these nonsense boutique mains cables.

 George

 We will both undoubtedly keep ignoring them as there is nothing in them that we haven't seen from you before, and disagreed with too.

I repeat that it was being unfair to test them using a low current device such as a headphone amplifier, instead of the much higher current devices they are designed to work with .

 

Alexi

[sandyk]

5 minutes ago, BrokeLinuxPhile said:

If there was noticeable variance between source files and destination files while copying, this would have been seen in other industries.  I would have a very hard time believing this is isolated SOLELY to video and audio.  Court and other legal docs could not be trusted, financial transactions would be invalid, it would be chaos.  That's not bias just evidence.

 Yeah, planes would fall out of the sky, and cars pile up at traffic lights too. What a load of crap from you  that I have heard on numerous times already.

 All that I am saying is that checksums are not always able to reveal small audible and visual differences between files, and the same applies to digital photographs too unless the software such as Photoshop has a reference and self calibrates.(it does)

  Audio has no reference to calibrate to with playback.

 

[sandyk]

32 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

 

Where did you have your photo taken, near Area 51 perhaps ?

I am not surprised that your neck is that long, and probably coloured red too.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, BrokeLinuxPhile said:

How can you prove it?

 

 I already have, with the results of 6 separate correctly performed DBTs performed by a well qualified E.E. , with the  findings published in Hi Fi Critic Vol.6 No.1

 The attached is from the 6th separate session as posted in HFC forum.

 I will not be replying further to you on this subject, unless via a PM.

 

[sandyk]

39 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Well, denial isn’t just a river in Africa, as they say. Unless the power amp in question is pulling close to the rated mains maximum, the size of the amp is irrelevant. No noise on the line (and no RFI) means no noise or RFI on the line. So there is nothing for the boutique mains cable to do, assuming that at its short length, it can do anything (which is a huge assumption). So your retort about the headphone amp being “a low current device” has no meaning in this context.

 

I am surprised that you of all people are unable to see how unfair that test is.

It certainly would not be accepted by the cable manufacturer either.

Note that I am NOT saying that there are any audible differences, just that your test methodology is flawed

[sandyk]

29 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

There is no way to prove anybody or anything ever exist outside the subject's mind. 

 

Post #162 says otherwise. Unless of course you believe that the DBTs demanded by most E.E.s are a useless tool, and that 6 separate  sessions, all positive, and not all having the same participants, with 8 repeats in each session are statistically worthless  !

 This is MANY more than with the Mani and Mansr session , where many members believe that Mani DID hear differences.

 

  BTW, this thread IS about Double Blind Testing, so my replies are not off topic