davide256 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 On 4/13/2019 at 11:19 AM, barrows said: I kept a very good CDP in my system as a reference until computer based playback clearly eclipsed it in performance. There is no technical reason that playing a spinning disc would be superior to computer based playback (in fact there are many technical advantages to computer based playback), so in my opinion, playing spinning discs is a needless pursuit. But, it is also true from a technical perspective that given "perfect" implementation, a spinning disc transport can equal a "perfect" implementation of computer based playback. All things, then, being equal, computer based playback wins out for me in terms of convenience and freedom from sample rate or format limitations. Always remember: reviewers need something to talk about to stay in business, and manufacturers need to make "new" products and need to keep tempting customers into purchasing something new to stay in business. I like DARKO's reviewing approach, not that I always agree with him though, and that is OK as well! Nothing wrong with CD player that good built in buffer and read error correction can't solve... its just a dumbed down version of a computer. The improvements from better power supplies used with computer audio playback does have me wondering what my Linn CD player could sound like if I knew how to put in a better PS Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted April 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 20, 2019 2 hours ago, davide256 said: Nothing wrong with CD player that good built in buffer and read error correction can't solve... its just a dumbed down version of a computer. The improvements from better power supplies used with computer audio playback does have me wondering what my Linn CD player could sound like if I knew how to put in a better PS Agreed, one CAN make very good single box CDP, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread. But, the cost is very, very high to do it right. First you need three separate power supplies: one for the drive mechanism (which is very noisy, this supply can also feed the display and control processor), one for the digital processing section (your buffer and buffer control section), and one for the conversion stage and analog output stage (one could even make the argument for four here). Then you need all the expense of the usual things: a really good DAC, etc. You also need really good internal vibration control, as the ROM drive you need to run this is not free from vibration. So, yes, one can make a CDP with superb performance, at a cost. And then still one is limited in sample rates (although with a lot if further development cost one could support data discs with high res PCM, but DSD is another story...). Or, one can have a well dialed in computer based, networked set up, with no sample rate limitations, the best possible sound quality (there is no need to compromise on that with a good set up), and the convenience factor of having all of your music files at your fingertips (right now I am listening to a DSD 256 file of Rachel Podger's version of "The Four Seasons"). I am happy with people doing whatever they want, as long as they are enjoying music as much as possible! I just do not want anyone to think there is a sonic advantage with a single box player running spinning discs vs. a well configured computer audio set up. esldude, Ralf11, Ajax and 1 other 4 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 big boxes or different boxes... Link to comment
esldude Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 On 4/14/2019 at 12:24 PM, analogue said: I was going thru paper editions of mid-1990s Stereophile. The mag may have been in its Golden Years then. A few issues were 350-400 pages thick. Going thru a few of those issue (just before Michael Fremer came in), I saw literally no review or even a picture of a turntable! A few ads from Audio Advisor or Acoustic Sound had some accessories and LPs -- that's it!! But what led to that "disappearance act"? Was CD playback, then, that good? Was it that "trending" thang? Was it market forces? Etc. etc. BTW, if you've got print editions of Stereophile's from the 90s, pull 'em out and have a look. It's akin to holding physical media (CD or LP) in that you have to touch/see/smell to appreciate the "gravity" of the issue Market forces. CD sold like hotcakes. LP's were done for effectively. Few LPs were being produced or asked for. Outside of very niche markets LP was gone. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted April 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2019 On 4/20/2019 at 4:27 PM, Ralf11 said: big boxes or different boxes... Obviously different big boxes. More is better. Bigger is better. More, bigger boxes is better better. Teresa and Summit 2 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
barrows Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, esldude said: Obviously different big boxes. More is better. Bigger is better. More, bigger boxes is better better. I would prefer s angle box, I am no fan of multiple box units. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
esldude Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, barrows said: I would prefer s angle box, I am no fan of multiple box units. I'm guessing that was single box. I agree. If it works just as well, one box is better. Teresa 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I agree too. One box. One box to rule them all... Teresa 1 Link to comment
esldude Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: I agree too. One box. One box to rule them all... Gives me the thought............................. One ring DAC to rule them all! https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/technology/ring-dac/ Ruling is going to be expensive. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Ha! There are also ring tweeters... Link to comment
R1200CL Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 8 hours ago, esldude said: One ring DAC to rule them all! “Fourier analysis, used throughout the development process, enables dCS engineers to identify artefacts invisible to other test techniques – a sort of audio microscope.” If you smoke pot, it will also raise the SQ. And it’s invisible to...😂👻 esldude 1 Link to comment
Kimo Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Inspired by Mr. Darko, I conducted my own shootout involving a Sony Blu Ray player playing files and CDs into my DAC vs my server. No streaming involved, just disc vs hard drive and portable hard drive vs server hard drive. The Sony and server don't sound exactly the same, but then again, the Sony sounded a little different from itself, based on whether I used a 1m Wyde Eyed cable or a 1.5 meter Belden coaxial cable. I don't know that I can say one betters the other or is more accurate though. I have no experience in swapping usb cables, so I don't know if that would change anything and make the units sound closer to one another. I used a 6' Belkin Gold cable. I wonder how by how much the Hegel would crush the Sony? Link to comment
matthias Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 New high end CD transport from project-audio: https://www.project-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/CDBoxRS2T-EN.pdf Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
R1200CL Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, matthias said: New high end CD transport from project-audio: https://www.project-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/CDBoxRS2T-EN.pdf Matt Is this realy true : “Today, we know that the drive is essential for reading all the 16 bits out of a CD and most CD players have never seen more than 10 bits.“ Link to comment
matthias Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, R1200CL said: Is this realy true : “Today, we know that the drive is essential for reading all the 16 bits out of a CD and most CD players have never seen more than 10 bits.“ Maybe BS, this CDT is a competitor to this one in the same price range: https://www.jays-audio.com/product-page/cdt2-mk2 Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Summit Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 19 hours ago, Kimo said: Inspired by Mr. Darko, I conducted my own shootout involving a Sony Blu Ray player playing files and CDs into my DAC vs my server. No streaming involved, just disc vs hard drive and portable hard drive vs server hard drive. The Sony and server don't sound exactly the same, but then again, the Sony sounded a little different from itself, based on whether I used a 1m Wyde Eyed cable or a 1.5 meter Belden coaxial cable. I don't know that I can say one betters the other or is more accurate though. I have no experience in swapping usb cables, so I don't know if that would change anything and make the units sound closer to one another. I used a 6' Belkin Gold cable. I wonder how by how much the Hegel would crush the Sony? My guess - big time. Link to comment
Kimo Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Unfortunately, I no longer have a dedicated CD player around to even compare. Things have changed. I recall Cambridge, Naim, Marantz, Sony, Pioneer, Rega, and Yamaha once populating the shelves. The Yamaha was the nicest of the bunch, and their last big time player before going to the SACD/CD model. With everything loaded to the Innuos, I no longer envision a time of need for a high end CD player. Even if the server should exit, playing high resolution files through the UBP takes preference. Not many of those left to buy, however, and even fewer in the USA. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now