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Article: Editorial: What's Wrong With You?


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44 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Then again, I am one whose “joy” is triggered by precise imaging, depth, and clear horns, strings, and vocals. No ear ripping please. :)

 

I have found that as I age, with slight tinnitus and hearing loss, that is far more important to me than “punchy” bass, though I do enjoy the occasional great bass demo at shows or at friends homes. Just not in my home! 

 

By by the way, has anyone noticed that digital has improved so much in the past decade, that even low end hardware stuff sounds very good? Not sure exactly where the point of diminishing returns is theses days, but that point is surely lower than it was before! 

 

Instead of going for ear ripping bass, you could try to add a small sub to your setup, supporting the lower end of your speakers at a very moderate level. This will (can?) greatly enhance the soundstage.

Last year I was invited to listen a setup with some very expensive components and tiny Klångedang speakers. I had brought an old Rel Stampede with me, and I didn't have to take it back home. 😁

 

I agree that modern DACs these days are very, very good, even at moderate pricelevels.

I'm not so sure about the point of diminishing returns though, I think that is very personal. Or maybe I just want my DAC to be better than a € 75 one.. I dunno... 😇

 

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4 minutes ago, firedog said:


I'm not putting down expensive systems and if I could afford a state of the art 6 figure system I'd probably buy one. But many  audiophiles are the kind of people who have the means to spend thousands on very small improvements in their systems. They then describe these incremental improvements as having "lifted the veil", or a giving them a  "totally different sound'" - that's usually BS to describe a small improvement. If it's not, their previous setup must not have been very good. 

I have to disagree with you, although I agree with you as well.

 

Consider a F1 car, driving on less than ideal tires. Changing the tires will make a huge difference to the driver.

People in lesser cars, even if those are very fast cars in their own right, will not be able to appreciate the difference the upgrade made to the F1 driver.

It's a probably bit like that.

 

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47 minutes ago, firedog said:

Yes, but in both cases the driver thinks his car drives like a F1 - he wasn't driving around with truck tires in the first place was he? He doesn't say, boy this car is totally different now. He says - the new tires made it a little bit better. 

I'm pretty sure I have heard Vettel saying things quite differently.

 

But, quoting Chris quoting Sheryl Crow: "If it makes you happy."

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8 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Just go back to having a real musician playing an instrument in that room which keeps exciting those room nodes; a note is played throughout a piece which is bang on a "problem frequency". Do you cringe every time he comes to that note - or does your hearing gracefully compensate for the 'irregularity'? Personally, I just hear the music being made by that live person, not a constant series of irky resonances.

In my experience musicians, while first entering a room, will test the acoustic response, and try to adapt to it.

I've heard a soprano hitting a particular frequency that really gained waaaay too much energy in small church. During the performance that never happened. She adapted to it.

I'm sure you've also noted that a lot of bands mention their sound-guy. There is a reason they bring him along.

My music collection is not as adaptive as a musician or a soundguy, so I myself had to take care it. Luckily DSPs these days are very capable, and I have to admit I had a soundguy doing it for me.

 

As for cringing; if you have a track where there are 2 bass notes 'bung and bunng', close together, but everytime you play it, it sounds like 'bung BUNNNGGG bung BUNNNNGGG', yeah, I cringe. There are obviously other less intrusive  nodes in my room that are just part of the scenery, but this particular one, really was annoying.

 

If you are happy with your room and what goes on in your head, that is obviously fine with me, and likewise you shouldn't question my room and what goes on in my head. I don't know if you read it, but there is this nice editorial at the beginning of this thread.

 

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1 minute ago, fas42 said:

 

If a band is using a sound guy, then it's going through a PA - the sound is now dead meat, bearing little relationship to what anyone on stage is actually producing - some modicum of sanity can be restored to this mess, by 5,000 bits of fiddling ... not something I have much interest in, as a pleasurable experience.

 

This being the main reason I stopped going to any shows - I wasn't going to pay good money to be assaulted by terrible sound ...

 

I'm almost tempted to get into a discussion with you, as I notice some others are trying, but per the subject of this thread, I'm not going to.

I wish you all the best.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Confused said:

maybe I will try swapping a few cables around, I'm still not sure if they make any difference... 

Luckily, trying them yourself provides the best results in figuring out if cables matter to you. 😉

 

My theory is that it is more about shielding than about the cables themselves, and that results differ much depending on the abundance of cable spaghetti, EM noise and the sensitivity of equipment used.

It is the only explanation I can come up with that explains why people have such different experiences and strong opinions about them.

 

Obviously this is debatable as well, so I'm already bracing for impact.

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10 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

use Balanced components & interconnects - that will greatly reduce some types of noise

I have read that plain RCA provides better S/N over (very) short distances. The writer being the chief engineer of a well known equipment brand.

So this general guideline is already debatable.

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use well-designed components - that will reduce the effects of any noise

Well sure, but less-designed equipment will provide so much noise that you may not hear the contribution of cables.

So this guideline is debatable as well.

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cross cables at 90 degrees & try to keep them away from each other

I agree full heartedly.

In my case, I have 14 RCAs, 9 power cables, a lot of speakercable, UTP, HDMI etc, so I have a severe shortage of 90 degree angles. Keeping them away from each other worked pretty well, considering the challenge.

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worry about conducted noise more than RFI

With my setup, and all the cables, RFI is more of an issue. The quality of components is high enough not having to worry, much, about conducted noise.

Once again, debatable. 😊

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worry about circuit design more than noise

Again this depends on the reality you live in, but as a general guideline, sure.

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test using single or double blind, levels matched - that will eliminate the effects of confirmation bias (or just buy big phaat cables with a groovey lookin' design on them and be happy)

I can't debate either, being happy being the most important. A lot of people are unhappy and start projecting their misery on the equipment of others.

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18 minutes ago, Confused said:

That sounds like a generalisation.

I think you're Confused. 😇

 

It is more than a generalisation. Most of our history and all but a few cultures revolve around the collection and exchange of shiny objects.

 

We have several senses and to me it seems weird to deny one sense when feeding another.

So, enjoy the comfort of your room and favourite chair, the way your equipment looks, your favourite music, while drinking your favourite beverage.

 

It's a hobby, it should be enjoyable me thinks.

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41 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Where did you "read that plain RCA provides better S/N over (very) short distances. The writer being the chief engineer of a well known equipment brand."

 

I'd like to see his analysis

It was Linn, in a discussion on their forums, but as they closed everything down I can't find the discussion anymore.

I also can't remember at which distance balanced gets the edge.

 

Anyway, my point was that it is debatable, which is what is happening.

 

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5 hours ago, fas42 said:

Yes, everyone is entitled to fun whichever way they want ... you could say, as one alternative, "Some people don't use their equipment to listen to music. Some people use music to listen to their equipment." ... hmmm, that feels strangely familiar ...

I'm sure it does, but you can listen to your equipment all you want, and it's nobodys business but yours.

 

You should seriously read the editorial above this thread and lighten the hell up.

 

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The playback qualities

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

For some people it’s tubes for others it’s tunes and for many it isn’t one or the other.  Either way, who really cares. 

i think I'd let both pass, I wouldn't be locking myself up in a room in the 60s.

 

Much more fun to be had in other places. Yeah baby.

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