No over sampling, no jitter reduction, no noise shaping, no re-clocking

[ferenc]

It is the new Audio Note DAC: Fifth Element / Fifth Force DAC. No idea about the price. 

 

"In other words, the Fifth Element / Fifth Force has no over sampling, no jitter reduction, no noise shaping and no re-clocking. Having removed all of the digital filtering that is required for over sampling, all filtering is done in the analogue domain where it is easier to retain good, wide band phase-frequency and dynamically coherent behaviour. It uses the highest grade Analogue Devices AD1865, 18Bit stereo converter chip solely because we found it to be the best sounding available (yes, even better than the 20Bit versions).
 
The filter-interface coils / transformers are of the highest possible quality, using 55% nickel Super mu-metal cores with 99.99% pure Audio Note™ silver wires. The air gaps in the two filter coils per channel are matched across the full frequency range to within 0.1dB of each other, using a specially designed program to supplement an Audio Precision System 2 test rig.

An extremely unique feature of the Fifth Element / Fifth Force is its use of an input buffer stage for the incoming digital signal, using an EF800 valve. Audio Note (UK) was the first company in the world to commercially implement such an arrangement, and it is one of the many technical achievements found in the Fifth Element / Fifth Force that pushes the performance of this Digital to analogue Converter beyond the threshold previously thought possible for such a device or digital audio technology in general."

 

https://www.audionote.co.uk/fifth-element-force?fbclid=IwAR1S0wPiO0ZDc933aPdI0rRJIecYwMNXMlMlsk7Jfr6r1pkYwhcmL2BR8Tc

[Ralf11]

"extremely unique"  ???    that's a do not buy signal right there

[ferenc]

So the price is:

 

"One of its most ambitious projects, Audio Note UK’s Fifth Element/Fifth Force DAC retails for 153,753 USD."

 

From dagogo. 

 

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-note-fifth-force-fifth-element-dac/ 

 

[Ralf11]

"Is that a real comma, or is that a Euro-comma?"

 

to paraphrase or metaphrase Frank Zappa's "Is that a real poncho, or is that a Sears poncho?"

 

- from Cosmik Debris (which jive seems apropos here)

[mansr]

49 minutes ago, ferenc said:

all filtering is done in the analogue domain where it is easier to retain good, wide band phase-frequency and dynamically coherent behaviour

Hahahaha ... can't ... haha ... stop ... hahaha ... laughing.

[asdf1000]

https://www.audionote.co.uk/fifth-element-force

 

They link to a review, which did some measurements.

[ThenewGearPPK]

44 minutes ago, ferenc said:

So the price is:

 

"One of its most ambitious projects, Audio Note UK’s Fifth Element/Fifth Force DAC retails for 153,753 USD."

 

From dagogo. 

 

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-note-fifth-force-fifth-element-dac/ 

 

 

Tell me the comma is a typo & it should be placed after the 7?

 

$150k for a plain old NOS DAC with cheap off the shelf DAC chips.

 

The only thing worth of value from that DAC would be the silver transformers, but even then, 150,000 USD.🤣

 

[Ralf11]

for $150k you should at least get an enclosure made of Bubinga wood

[ipeverywhere]

Based only on it's price, this is the best sounding DAC I've never heard. 

 

 

[BrokeLinuxPhile]

4 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

for $150k you should at least get an enclosure made of Bubinga wood

 

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of Geishas massaging me with beer and feeding me grapes for that price.  Yikes!

[Ralf11]

"massaging me with beer"

 

you know what animal gets fed and massaged with beer in Japan, right?

[BrokeLinuxPhile]

Yes i do.  And they are quite tasty. 

[opus101]

9 hours ago, ferenc said:

An extremely unique feature of the Fifth Element / Fifth Force is its use of an input buffer stage for the incoming digital signal, using an EF800 valve. Audio Note (UK) was the first company in the world to commercially implement such an arrangement, and it is one of the many technical achievements found in the Fifth Element / Fifth Force that pushes the performance of this Digital to analogue Converter beyond the threshold previously thought possible for such a device or digital audio technology in general."

 

Presumably the 'extremely unique feature' here is simply the use of an EF800 valve in this application. AMR beat AN to it it seems as the now-fairly-long-in-the-tooth DP-777 also had a valve to buffer the S/PDIF signal :

 

https://superphonica.com/all-products/components-digital/digital-to-analog-converters-dac/amr-digital-processor-777-se/

[AnotherSpin]

As an item which surely breaks one's sane reasoning it would be quite perfect. Not sure it suit well for listening music though.

[mansr]

3 hours ago, opus101 said:

Presumably the 'extremely unique feature' here is simply the use of an EF800 valve in this application. AMR beat AN to it it seems as the now-fairly-long-in-the-tooth DP-777 also had a valve to buffer the S/PDIF signal :

What advantage is that supposed to bring?

[opus101]

I can only see a marketing advantage myself, in that its different for the sake of being different.

[the_bat]

I fully appreciate that I'm opening myself up to pile-on ridicule here, but I'm almost certainly the only person in this conversation who's actually heard this DAC, and if I had the money I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

 

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, the_bat said:

I fully appreciate that I'm opening myself up to pile-on ridicule here, but I'm almost certainly the only person in this conversation who's actually heard this DAC, and if I had the money I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I don't care what it sounds like. Or how it measures. Anything good resulting from such a design is a happy accident. My money goes to designs based on competent engineering, not superstition and dumb luck.

[BrokeLinuxPhile]

1 hour ago, the_bat said:

I fully appreciate that I'm opening myself up to pile-on ridicule here, but I'm almost certainly the only person in this conversation who's actually heard this DAC, and if I had the money I'd buy it in a heartbeat. 

 

 

 

I'm sure it sounds amazing.  There's so many NOS parts inside of the thing it artificially inflates the price, and probably doesn't gain much in the way of performance.  Carbon comps everywhere that will drift over time if they are carrying any real current.  Could have gone with something like Mills MRA, they are mil-spec bulletproof, won't drift, and sound sublime.  Not for me.

[Jud]

I imagine there would quite likely be distortion, perhaps to an audible degree, with 44.1k or 48k input.  But the results with 96k input might be quite good.

[Allan F]

21 hours ago, ferenc said:

So the price is:

 

"One of its most ambitious projects, Audio Note UK’s Fifth Element/Fifth Force DAC retails for 153,753 USD."

 

I wonder if they are cheaper by the dozen.

[Ralf11]

oh wait !!     I just realized that CC told us not to criticize over-priced gear...

[AnotherSpin]

9 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

oh wait !!     I just realized that CC told us not to criticize over-priced gear...

 

no such thing as "over-priced gear"

[Ralf11]

Gear that costs much more than another brand w/o discernable SQ, ergonomic or esthetic increases is clearly over-priced.

[AnotherSpin]

7 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

Gear that costs much more than another brand w/o discernable SQ, ergonomic or esthetic increases is clearly over-priced.

 

The price reflects the willingness of someone to pay it, much more than anything else.