LPSU choices, new contender.....

[Tomslin]

Regarding batteries: Some Ultracaps as near the device as possible will be fine, feeding by batteries and no regulator.

Post from yesterday:

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2350-jcat-net-card-femto/?p=48326

[Tomslin]

3 hours ago, marce said:

I wouldn't do this, I would always use a regulator...

I do it simply because I experience improvements. May I ask if you have another experiences to this? 😊

[Tomslin]

4 hours ago, marce said:

Digital requires a stable supply, the more stable the better, battery voltage drops with time and may fluctuate with current draw, and EVERY design I have worked on that used batteries had regulators or an SMPS after the battery, from recommendations and instructions from people who understand this far better than me...

 

Thank you for your clarification 😃

 

Although I don't quite agree with these "old truths". They allow certain grade of modification, imo.

 

A hint for you can be; don't trust people who claim they know and understand better than you do 😉

 

Another link at the subject:

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4652

 

[Tomslin]

16 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

A high quality battery supply (LiPo etc.) is normally better at preserving a neutral sounding presentation,
 but the main problem is that the voltage reduces slowly with use, and then may vary considerably under different load conditions, even generating audible noise.
Most devices however, require a stable input voltage for the highest consistent performance.
 The only way around this is to use voltage regulation. Unfortunately, the type of voltage regulator used ,
 and the necessary capacitors used with it for stability reasons mainly, usually imparts some kind of audible footprint.

 This is more important with the Analogue area than the Digital areas that Marce mainly  plays around in where you can  use well established HF bypass techniques etc.

I use my battery power supplys for max about a two, three hours at a time. I don't need longer listening sessions without break. I'm fully satisfied with that, and it had not been different if I had use AC mains power supplies. During such listening sessions I don’t experiences any weakness in terms of power fluctations or falling voltages.

I am fully agree with yours statement that “a high quality battery supply (LiPo etc.) is normally better at preserving a neutral sounding presentation”. I noticed that already several years ago when I started using batteries. My setup sounds otherwise very neutral and it is also this neutral sound signature that I mainly strive for. At the beginning with my battery journey I use simple NiMH batteries for hand tools. Not sounding so good, but anyway more neutral than many others linear power supplys I had tried. Later I moved on to much better battery types, and the current I use is LTO.

Regarding generated noise I can only say that the most of it disappeared when I changed battery types from LFP (LiFePO4) to LTO. But even more noise became reduced when I skip to use voltage regulators, you may believe it or not, it is actually true. Those LTO batteries I use now have a capacity of 40Ah, and internal resistance about 1mΩ. Short terms capacity to leave approx. 400A, and 40A over time is really not a serious problem. Those devices I use them for are USB card, NET Cards and CF to SATA adapters, mostly JCAT. And none of this devices have more current demands than max any single ampere, so when people talk about problems with fluctations at the power feed I take it quite easily. And the internal stability demands to each devices will also the internal regulators take care of. Thank you Marcin for theirs excellent design.

When I so tried to use Ultracaps connected directly before the device, the SQ become undoubtedly better. Just here lies probably the biggest improvement. The tips I get from the TirNaHiFi site I linked to earlier. Very big thanks to jkeny and some others there for this.

I will for sure continue to experiment with this in the future, and especially with the Ultracaps. For me is only the best possible sound quality the most important. I will gladly leave some I usually say “old truths” only for to achieve this goal, or at least come to close as possible. And I definitively not see it as an impossible task, actually not even hard. People who want to believe the opposite are welcome to do so, no problem for me 😊

[Tomslin]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

I'm sorry, but I couldn't figure out what you meant by "when I skip to use voltage regulators" - did you mean when you stopped using voltage regulators? 

Yes, exactly.

[Tomslin]

4 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

thx, that makes sense

sorry for that, I'm not perfect at English 🙁

[Tomslin]

18 minutes ago, marce said:

There will be voltage regulators on the cards, you wont be bypassing those I presume!

Depending on the digital circuit the instantaneous current requirements when the circuitry switches can be up to 100A, even small circuitry have high current demand when switching, that,s why the whole power delivery system is critical. Even more so on digital/analogue designs. The most important components in the power delivery system are those very small (0402 preferable) decoupling capacitors right next to the power pins and how they are tracked to the pins and power planes.

Whatever front end power you use must be within the requirements of the circuit its feeding and avoid voltage droop at all costs.

Yes, I agree to this. I am quite convinced that the LTO cells I use and Supercaps can meet these requirements.

To bypassing any voltage regulators directly on the cards are probably not completely impossible, and possibly improve them if I should do something like that. But I have no intend to do it. Moreover the JCAT cards are already close to perfect in that aspects.

 

 

[Tomslin]

6 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

Ah but the latency of that card is trashed by the Solarflare, haven’t you measured that!?

 

Oh shit! I didn't think about that 😉

[Tomslin]

Hi Alex

Try to think little “outside the box” and leave the regulator issue there inside. I know that it’s possible to design a PSU without and still get a terrific sound quality. Even better in some cases 😁

[Tomslin]

2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

AFAIK, not this one:

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/327105-develop-ultra-capacitor-power-supply-lifepo4-battery-power-supply.html

 

Matt

 

Wow, Such a comprehensive forum thread. I haven't seen it before. The rest of the day dedicated to reading. Thank you!

[Tomslin]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

So, do exist manufacturers of Ultra Cap PSs without regulators AFTER the caps?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it does, here is one I know:

 

https://www.ciunas.biz/new-welcome

[Tomslin]

On 4/25/2019 at 12:18 AM, matthias said:

 

Interesting,

any listening impressions with this UC PS?

I am wondering why @Pink Faun use regulators after the UCs.

 

Matt

 

I haven't listened to it, unfortunately.

There are at least some impressions in the TirNaHiFi thread I previously linked to:

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4652&start=10

Hard to say why they use regulators, only speculations without to ask himself. It can be related to commercial reasons or that they simply consider it better. Or maybe both.