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Richard Dale

Coltrane '58: The Prestige Recordings

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I've just downloaded this great album from HDTracks in 24/192. It covers everything John Coltrane recorded in 1958 in chronological order and lasts for over 5 hours. For once, the digital download is a bargain, it is normally 33 pounds from HDTracks UK, but they are doing a 10% discount until the end of March, and so I got it for only 28 pounds. The CD and vinyl editions come with a book, and unfortunately you don't get a PDF of that with the download. But the CD boxed set is 85 pounds, and the vinyl boxed set is 220 pounds. Here is a video of the producer describing the project:

 

http://mediakits.concordmusicgroup.com/p/coltrane-58/nick-phillips-interview-video.html

 

I haven't had time to listen to any of it yet, but I'm optimistic that it will be a high quality mastering.


System (i): (iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodek/SME V/Ortofon 2M Black/Pure Sound P10; Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > Glow Amp One > Klipsch RP-600M

System (ii): iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > (Tandy LX5; JBL LSR305 ; Audeze LCD-3)

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28 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

I've just downloaded this great album from HDTracks in 24/192. It covers everything John Coltrane recorded in 1958 in chronological order and lasts for over 5 hours. For once, the digital download is a bargain, it is normally 33 pounds from HDTracks UK, but they are doing a 10% discount until the end of March, and so I got it for only 28 pounds. The CD and vinyl editions come with a book, and unfortunately you don't get a PDF of that with the download. But the CD boxed set is 85 pounds, and the vinyl boxed set is 220 pounds. Here is a video of the producer describing the project:

 

http://mediakits.concordmusicgroup.com/p/coltrane-58/nick-phillips-interview-video.html

 

I haven't had time to listen to any of it yet, but I'm optimistic that it will be a high quality mastering.

$62.50 for the CD set at Amazon US. Probably worth it for the book, if you like that sort of thing. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I probably won't get this, as I already have most of the tracks in hi-rez, with the original albums released in 24/192 in 2016. These sound very good.

 

Highresaudio offers the new set in 24-96 only, with this explanation:

 

"Please Note: We offer this album in its native sampling rate of 96 kHz, 24-bit. The provided 192 kHz version was up-sampled and offers no audible value! "

 

https://www.highresaudio.com/en/album/view/re4yfz/john-coltrane-coltrane-58-the-prestige-recordings-remastered

 

It's sad that no booklet is included with the download.


Claude

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25 minutes ago, CatManDo said:

I probably won't get this, as I already have most of the tracks in hi-rez, with the original albums released in 24/192 in 2016. These sound very good.

 

Highresaudio offers the new set in 24-96 only, with this explanation:

 

"Please Note: We offer this album in its native sampling rate of 96 kHz, 24-bit. The provided 192 kHz version was up-sampled and offers no audible value! "

 

https://www.highresaudio.com/en/album/view/re4yfz/john-coltrane-coltrane-58-the-prestige-recordings-remastered

 

It's sad that no booklet is included with the download.

It does say somewhere that the vinyl was mastered from the 24/192 version, and so I would be surprised if it was upsampled from 24/96. At 45 euros the Highresaudio download is more expensive than the HDTracks version.


System (i): (iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > 2Qute+MCRU psu; Gyrodek/SME V/Ortofon 2M Black/Pure Sound P10; Magnum Dynalab FT101A) > Glow Amp One > Klipsch RP-600M

System (ii): iUSB3.0 Nano/RPi 2/Moode > Bel Canto uLink+AQVOX psu > Chord Hugo > (Tandy LX5; JBL LSR305 ; Audeze LCD-3)

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4 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

It does say somewhere that the vinyl was mastered from the 24/192 version, and so I would be surprised if it was upsampled from 24/96. At 45 euros the Highresaudio download is more expensive than the HDTracks version.

Qobuz sublime : 24,50€ for 24/192 version. Same price for 24/96.

Dirk

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1 minute ago, Richard Dale said:

It does say somewhere that the vinyl was mastered from the 24/192 version, and so I would be surprised if it was upsampled from 24/96. At 45 euros the Highresaudio download is more expensive than the HDTracks version.

Lots of records are mastered in different ways between analog and digital versions. Highresaudio is known for trying very hard to establish provenance of the files they are given. If they say the 192 k is an upsample, I’d believe them. I’ve learned never to assume that record labels will do the sensible and logical, or inform customers about info they should know. Just another reason to buy the even cheaper 96k version. Or listen on Qobuz. 


By the way, another example: The complete 6 disc version of the Allman Brother’s at Fillmore East was released in 192k. After many earlier adopters bought it, it turned out that the 192 was an upsample of the 96. How and why? The analog was digitized at 24/96. For mixing purposes, it was upsampled to 24/192. They then downsampled the result back to 24/96, but also marketed the original mix version in 24/192 -as if it was a “real” 192k version and charged more for it. 
Unfortunately, record labels do this kind of crap all the time, and I’m guessing a similar thing is going on here. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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2 minutes ago, firedog said:

By the way, another example: The complete 6 disc version of the Allman Brother’s at Fillmore East was released in 192k. After many earlier adopters bought it, it turned out that the 192 was an upsample of the 96. How and why? The analog was digitized at 24/96. For mixing purposes, it was upsampled to 24/192. They then downsampled the result back to 24/96, but also marketed the original mix version in 24/192 -as if it was a “real” 192k version and charged more for it. 
Unfortunately, record labels do this kind of crap all the time, and I’m guessing a similar thing is going on here. 

 

This is especially bad when download stores charge significantly more for 24/192 files than for 24/96 files, such as HDtracks ($25 vs $18, for a regular album)

 

Since upsampling is easy to detect (it takes a minute to check a track in a spectrum analyzer software) , I don't understand why download stores don't verify this before selling the albums.

 

Concerning the Coltrane set, there is so far only this upsampling claim by Highresaudio, which could apply only to the files they received. It would be great if somebody could check the 24/192 files offered by other stores.


Claude

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1 hour ago, CatManDo said:

 

This is especially bad when download stores charge significantly more for 24/192 files than for 24/96 files, such as HDtracks ($25 vs $18, for a regular album)

 

Since upsampling is easy to detect (it takes a minute to check a track in a spectrum analyzer software) , I don't understand why download stores don't verify this before selling the albums.

 

Concerning the Coltrane set, there is so far only this upsampling claim by Highresaudio, which could apply only to the files they received. It would be great if somebody could check the 24/192 files offered by other stores.

 

I would, but I only bought the 24/96 files (a steal at Qobuz US for $14.99!).  Will be interested to see what others contribute.

 

Frankly, I wasn't all that impressed with the sound of this collection..  Very clean / clear, but also pretty lacking in depth / warmth - not typically what I expect from Coltrane, keeping in mind the late 50s provenance.


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Out of curiosity, I bought the first track (Lush Life) in 24/192 from Qobuz US and ran it through MusicScope

 

743020275_MusicScope2019-03-3113-32-31.thumb.png.e003797ca8f27bdf2f8dc99904d57c1a.png

 

I'm not an expert at reading these things, but looks like a mono source, no real content over about 30Khz - whether it's upsampled from 24/96 or not, I can see no reason for paying extra for the 24/192 version, in any case.

 

 


John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - MacMini running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi wireless > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > iFi Audio xDSD > Focal Elegia

Home Theater - Mac Mini running Roon Server > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Pioneer Elite SC-81 > MartinLogan Motion series home theater speakers + M&K subwoofer

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56 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

 

I would, but I only bought the 24/96 files (a steal at Qobuz US for $14.99!).  Will be interested to see what others contribute.

 

Frankly, I wasn't all that impressed with the sound of this collection..  Very clean / clear, but also pretty lacking in depth / warmth - not typically what I expect from Coltrane, keeping in mind the late 50s provenance.

That is indeed a steal compared to the european price.

Dirk

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9 minutes ago, PAP said:

Is the CD booklet available on line?

  

 

Doesn’t look like it. I’m thinking of ordering the CD box. You get the book, and in this case i doubt there will be any difference in SQ. 

I’m also not seeing it available for purchase in Qobuz, I wonder why?


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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26 minutes ago, rwwjr44 said:

From prostudiomasters.com 

 

96 kHz / 24-bit PCM – Craft Recordings Studio Masters

Tracks 1-37 – contains high-resolution digital transfers of material originating from an analogue master source
Tracks 6-10 – 48 kHz / 24-bit PCM, mastered in 192 kHz / 24-bit, 96 kHz / 24-bit
Tracks 11-15 – 44.1 kHz / 24-bit PCM, mastered in 192 kHz / 24-bit, 96 kHz / 24-bit

Even more of a reason to just by the CD box set and get the book. I really doubt you will be able to hear any difference between the CD's and the "hi-res". 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I finally got around to do some (somewhat) critical listening of this new remaster.  To me (streaming the box in Reebok from Qobuz), it sounds better, clearer, more resolving than the Complete Prestige CD boy I have in my library, and even somewhat better, or at least not worse, than the MFSL remaster SACD of Soul Trane.

 

I‘m not sure I’ll buy this again because the SQ increase isn’t night and day and Prestige isn’t particularly audiophile to start with, but of you don’t have these albums, I can really recommend the new remaster, especially at the Qobuz US Sublime price. 

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Thx - very helpful 


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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I bought the 192/24 download (20% off at HDTracks). While I haven't listened to all of the tracks, I really like the sound. 


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How the CD box set is presented - any booklets inside etc? Digital versions of course have nothing, nada :-( Asking also if all the songs are in MONO or some of them?


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Krzysztof Maj

http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/

"Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata

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Some sessions have been recorded in mono, others in stereo.  I think the majority is mono (not sure though)

 

1958 was the year during which most US jazz labels switched to stereo recording, although mono LP pressings were still released for years to come.

 

The good thing about this set is that the sessions are now released chronologically. Initially, the tracks were mixed together on various albums, some released years after the recording took place (when Coltrane had already switched to other labels).

 

You can see that in this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Coltrane_discography#Prestige_Records


Claude

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4 hours ago, mkrzych said:

How the CD box set is presented - any booklets inside etc? Digital versions of course have nothing, nada 😞 Asking also if all the songs are in MONO or some of them?

Tracks 1-15 are mono, the rest in (mainly ping pong) stereo. 

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15 hours ago, Musicophile said:

Tracks 1-15 are mono, the rest in (mainly ping pong) stereo. 

 

Thanks @Musicophile I am interested to buy this box, but not decided yet if in physical or digital form. Digital is lacking the booklet of course :-/


--

Krzysztof Maj

http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/

"Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata

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BTW, anyone knows if any chance to get the PDF version of the booklets provided for CD or vinyl box?


--

Krzysztof Maj

http://mkrzych.wordpress.com/

"Music is the highest form of art. It is also the most noble. It is human emotion, captured, crystallised, encased… and then passed on to others." - By Ken Ishiwata

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2 hours ago, mkrzych said:

BTW, anyone knows if any chance to get the PDF version of the booklets provided for CD or vinyl box?

Haven’t seen it anywhere, so I doubt it. Unfortunately, only classical labels seem to do this with any regularity. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS >SOtM Lan Isolator>Bricasti M5 Network Player >Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Any thoughts on the comparison between the new "Coltrane '58: The Prestige Recordings" and the "Fearless Leader"? I already have the latter.

Screen Shot 2019-04-30 at 8.14.54 PM.png

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