Jud Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 https://www.iconoclastcable.com/index.htm https://www.iconoclastcable.com/story/index.htm https://www.iconoclastcable.com/story/time.pdf crenca 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 30 minutes ago, Jud said: https://www.iconoclastcable.com/index.htm https://www.iconoclastcable.com/story/index.htm https://www.iconoclastcable.com/story/time.pdf That time.pdf is pretty detailed. This is an older powerpoint presentation I read a while ago which was good reading too: iconoclast_tm__speaker_cable.pdf I've spoken to a couple DAC designers before who don't like the typical audiophile cable BS in our hobby but they say the high cost of these Belden cables is due to high R&D costs and also the manufacturing cost is huge with this design. So it's really expensive to buy but not for all the typical reasons (apparently) Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 From the Blue Jeans Cable website... Quote The Cable: Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 Low Capacitance Audio Cable The most important attributes of a line-level unbalanced audio cable are (1) shielding, and (2) capacitance. Heavy shielding protects audio signals from interference from outside sources. LC-1 Audio Cable uses a heavy double-braid shield, with one bare copper braid laid directly over another for extreme high coverage and high conductivity to ground; this is the identical shield configuration to Canare LV-77S, which tested best in our review of audio cable hum rejection characteristics (LC-1 hadn't been designed yet so wasn't tested at that time). By shrinking the center conductor to 25 AWG and foaming the polyethylene dielectric, we were able to get capacitance down to an extremely low 12.2 pF/ft, much better than LV-77S at 21 pF/ft. Capacitance can be important, particularly in long cable runs, because it contributes to rolloff of higher frequencies. The softer dielectric material and smaller center conductor, meanwhile, make the cable highly flexible and easy to route. LC-1 is built exclusively for Blue Jeans Cable by Belden, the leader in American communications cable, and is rated CM for in-wall installation in residential and commercial environments. For more information and specs on LC-1, read our "LC-1 Design Notes" article. So, considering that, what I read in that pdf was a bunch of gibberish to enable them to charge more for the same cable, or cable with a teflon dielectric rather than the polyethylene one of the LC-1 cable... No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted March 31, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2019 not a chance... JediJoker, 4est and crenca 3 No electron left behind. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: bunch of gibberish to enable them to charge more for the same cable, Same cable? Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Em2016 said: Same cable? The descriptions are shockingly similar except for the material used for the dielectric. The Capacitance for LC-1 is claimed to be 12.2pF which is the same as the Iconoclast RCA cables. What the hell though, they're allowed to make money! I say go for it, people will buy them so they may as well. No electron left behind. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: The descriptions are shockingly similar except for the material used for the dielectric. The Capacitance for LC-1 is claimed to be 12.2pF which is the same as the Iconoclast RCA cables. In the links above it does say: "it is still possible for cables with the same R, L and C to have different sounds. The difference comes down to time -- that some factors which are not taken fully into account in measuring overall R, L and C do affect the relative speeds of parts of the signal as they travel down the signal path." But yeah I considered this cable a couple of years ago but decided to spend the same money elsewhere... Link to comment
sandyk Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Several years ago I purchased a 6 foot LC1 cable for connection between my DAC and Preamp. They are well made high quality cables at a very reasonable price, however in my system they were a little too HF detailed due to their much lower capacitance. In hindsight I could have probably easily corrected this with the addition of a couple of low value capacitors across the DAC output sockets. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
jtwrace Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 There's a massive thread at PS Audio's site. Galen is very active there. https://forum.psaudio.com/t/belden-iconoclast-interconnects-and-speaker-cabling/2038 ** I use standard Blue Jeans and have heard these at a friends place. Do they sound different? Yep. Worth the cost? Not to me but I need so much for my system there's no way I'll do it. W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
mav52 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I will still buy Blue Jean Cable. Sounds like people need to do a little DIY. jtwrace 1 The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
Popular Post wgscott Posted March 31, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2019 8 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: The descriptions are shockingly similar except for the material used for the dielectric. The Capacitance for LC-1 is claimed to be 12.2pF which is the same as the Iconoclast RCA cables. What the hell though, they're allowed to make money! I say go for it, people will buy them so they may as well. Even the crude website interface is the same. It would be hilarious if this turned out to be a practical joke, and they donated all the money to the re-elect Trump to a Third Term fund. AudioDoctor and Ajax 1 1 Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 45 minutes ago, wgscott said: It would be hilarious if this turned out to be a practical joke, and they donated all the money to the re-elect Trump to a Third Term fund. The word 'iconoclast' leaves no doubt. They will, and this is dead serious, no joke. Link to comment
mav52 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, AnotherSpin said: The word 'iconoclast' leaves no doubt. They will, and this is dead serious, no joke. Iconoclast ; a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, mav52 said: Iconoclast ; a person who attacks settled beliefs or institutions yes Link to comment
mrvco Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 There's money out there, might as well go get it 🤑 -- My Audio System Link to comment
astrotoy Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 11 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: not a chance... Those are for the most expensive cable stock. The regular cable stock price is $520 and $785 for the same cable configuration. Here is the explanation of the three types of cable stock. Design and construction is all the same. Conductor Options: There are three options available for the signal conductor composition (shielding is TPC on all varieties). The difference between these is purely one of material, and not of design; regardless of whether your cable is made with TPC, OFE or OCC, the internal structure is the same, and the termination methods and hardware are the same. The conductor choices for XLR cable are TPC, OFE and OCC. TPC is Electrolytic Tough-Pitch Copper, widely used in communications cable of all sorts. OFE is Oxygen-Free Electrolytic Copper (99.99% pure); OCC is Ohno Continuous Cast copper (99.99998% pure). The outer jacket color is red for TPC, violet for OFE, and green for OCC. Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105 Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps; Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-1.8KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50+TBripped files Link to comment
Popular Post Sonicularity Posted March 31, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2019 April fools a day early? mrvco, SuperRoo, jhwalker and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 or maybe the fuses to the power supply were installed backwards Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted March 31, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2019 12 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: not a chance... Well, the conductor material is "Oh no." Veri, AudioDoctor and JediJoker 1 2 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post mav52 Posted April 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2019 I’m going with an April Fools joke AudioDoctor, 4est, JediJoker and 1 other 2 2 The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, mav52 said: I’m going with an April Fools joke I have considered that. No electron left behind. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Reported in December.... "The Iconoclast line though is being assembled and marketed by Kurt Denke and the guys at Blue Jean Cables up in Seattle." https://audiobacon.net/2018/12/03/in-the-frying-pan-iconoclast-by-belden-from-blue-jeans-cable/ Link to comment
mansr Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 From a year ago: https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-speaker-cable-design-part-1/ https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-speaker-cable-design-part-2/ Link to comment
R1200CL Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Well, i think John Swenson Shielding Guidelines (JSSG) is the best and cheapest upgrade on almost any type of cable. To me Faraday Cage makes a lot of sense. Link to comment
Popular Post Jud Posted April 1, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 1, 2019 2 hours ago, mansr said: From a year ago: https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-speaker-cable-design-part-1/ https://www.psaudio.com/article/cables-speaker-cable-design-part-2/ I suppose my questions are: - Do the design goals make sense just from the standpoint of fundamental electrical principles? - Is the design likely to achieve those goals? - Beyond fundamental electrical principles, are the time-based and skin-effect-based effects of the design likely to be audible to people with training and experience, or are any effects most likely completely beyond human capabilities to discern? - Can the same benefits (to the extent there are any, either plain old electrical or more esoteric) be found in less expensive cables? JediJoker and Ajax 2 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
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