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Computer Storage - Best Practices


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51 minutes ago, Nenon said:

1. SSD drive

The general consensus is that SSD is noisy and should not be used. Powering by LPS helps but does not eliminate the noise. 

 

 So are HDDs noisy as can be seen from the attached. The noise injected from an SSD back into the main PSU has faster rise and fall times, i.e. it is wider bandwidth noise but can be more readily filtered out using additional voltage regulation than a typical internal HDD which ALSO uses the +12V supply for it's motor, not just the +5V supply.

 SSDs powered from the motherboard are best reserved for processor intensive applications such as 4K Video editing and rendering where their faster speed is a great time saver.

 Incidentally, the OS SSD should also be powered with cleaner isolated and regulated +5V too, not just a Music SSD.

  Using additional external Linear PSUs to power an internal peripheral device may result in Earth related issues, not just audible hum.

HDD Electrical noise.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, Nenon said:

A file is a file. It would be identical no matter if it is stored on a SSD, HDD, USB stick, NAS, or something else.

 

 That statement may be what the E.Es such as Mansr insist is correct, but in the real world it is not.

Just because 2 files have identical binary content according to the checksums does NOT mean that they must sound identical.

 How a file sounds is governed to a large extent by the power supply area. The same also applies to Video .

Check the supplied comparison photos in My Profile that were taken from the TV screen of my 40" Samsung " LED" TV using a basic Canon A480 camera using a cheap tripod. They are from paused still frames , mainly from the beginning of many SNL DTV musical performances, however. the REAL proof is on several BluRay discs .that I have available  with around 17 pairs of different  Comparison Music TV videos on them,  where the Audio is audibly different ,even through the TVs internal speakers, and at the same time you can also see marked differences in the Video too.

All pairs of comparison Music Videos on the discs have IDENTICAL .md5 checksums !!!

Quote

 Does it make a difference if I RIP my CDs to a SSD, or HDD, or USB flash drive?

 

 Yes it does. The quieter electrically the PC/Server is, the less the audible and visual differences.

If you have say a 3M long USB-A -to USB-B  cable , try plugging a USB memory stick into that and copy the ripped file from SSD to there, then see if you can hear the degradation with the USB cable.

If your system is revealing enough ( use headphones) you should hear the differences with the USB cable version sounding a little duller..

 

I think you will find that Rajiv and several other members in the parent thread have no problems with my reports either.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 minute ago, Nenon said:

 

Interesting.... So, are you saying that if you copy the file from the SSD via the 3M long USB cable to a memory stick, and copy the file from the memory stick back to the SSD (as a second copy of the original file) and you play both files from the SSD, you hear a difference? 

I did not think there would be difference, but if people are telling me there is I would certainly give it a try. It's an easy test to make.

But playing one file from my SSD and the other from the memory stick via the long USB cable would not an extremely unfair comparison. So I would rather see the copied file back on the SSD and played from there. 

And, yes my system is very resolving, and I can easily hear differences on my speakers... actually my speakers (system) are more resolving than my HD800 headphones. 

 

 Yes, I am saying there will be some degradation done your way, but considering that we are playing supposedly identical files from different locations I don't believe it is unfair, even when both are played from System Memory using a decent S/W player such JRiver..

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, Nenon said:

That would also mean that if we care about high quality digital, we should never download tracks from places like HDTracks, unless they ensure us they use good power, cables, storage, vibration isolation, and everything else that could potentially make a difference. And even then, what about the ISPs this traffic is going through?!? None of them are using audiophile switches/routers and linear power supplies. We would need a "master" FLAC/WAV/AIFF/whatever delivered on our special media, copied directly from the master server.

 

Actually, it is possible to improve the Signal Integrity of the file when converted from .flac by using a USB Regen with a very low noise 12V Li Ion battery derived PSU powering it, when saving it to the USB memory stick .

 The cable at the bottom is replaced by the DIY USB-A to USB-B adaptor which doesn't pass through the shield and +5V wires

Regen plus JLH PSU.jpg

USB  A to B adaptor.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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59 minutes ago, romaz said:

I personally find hard drives to be less noisy than SSDs but they are vibrating devices and so that's not ideal.  HDDs are also not low latency drives and so for an OS, this is not ideal either.

 

 Because they are driven by a  motor powered by a not so highly stable power supply,   they are also far more likely to have an increase in Jitter when playing Audio files compared with an SSD.

However many members appear to like a little added  Jitter .

 The varying power demands by the motor will also reflect back into the main power supply area.

 That is also why I further regulate the +12V and +5V supply to my internal LG GGW H20L BR writer which I use for ripping CDs. A highly stable power supply will also result  in improved quality writing .

SSDs do however require much lower noise and low output impedance power for best results than a HDD.

 That is why I individually power my OS and Music SSDs via the attached JLH PSU add-on which has <4uV noise.

(+12V IN to 2 x +5V Out)

Dual +5V PSU for 2 SSDs.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, numlog said:

with pre-regulators added to drive, USB and SATA supplies the SSD had a leap in SQ while the HDD is only slightly better.

Most surprising is that the SSD harshness has mostly been lifted, the HDD is still ''smoother'' but with the slight muddiness it adds its hard to go back to it.

 

 That is exactly what I have been saying with my method of pre-regulating the +12V supply down to +5V followed by a very low noise (<4uV ) JLH PSU add-on. You really need to do the same for the OS SSD as well as the Music SSD though.

 It's harder to do this with the original smaller LT3045s though with their maximum Current Capability of 500MA , although you could use 2 lots of 2 in parallel, but all this could become unwieldy.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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53 minutes ago, numlog said:

The combination of pre-reg and JLH add-on must be an exceptionally high quality power source compared to most, could that be the most significant factor in SSD sound quality?

 What you are doing should work quite well. Even doing what I am doing with just the OS SSD gives an improvement.

 If you have both a 1A LM317 based PSU and a 1A LT3045 try the LM317T set to say 2V above the required output voltage then into a 1A LT3045 in a temporary set up. You can fiddle with capacitors later to achieve the best results in your own setup.;)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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5 minutes ago, numlog said:

LM350 pre-reg were used for PCIe cards where more dissipation was required for 3.3V while 2 TPS7A4700 (1A) in series were used for the drive, roughly 1.7V drop each. 

 

looking at this example of LT3045, Its really surprising how much more effective regulators can be in series, also surprising how 1 reg that should push PSRR into ''inaudible'' levels isnt enough.

 https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-15.html#post5424495

Quote

get-it, I think you theories are simplified a lot and needs to be verified. The real result will not be as good as you think.

 

I agree with the well experienced Peranders.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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41 minutes ago, numlog said:

sandykHave you experimented with allocation unit size for storage in windows? seems like something you would be interested in.

 Hi

 No, I haven't played around in that area so far, as I can obtain much greater differences playing around in the PSU area.

Also, my very best files are saved to USB memory using a Regen powered via a very low noise PSU powered from a 12V Li Ion battery to then a JLH PSU add-on to get away from mains earth related problems. The JLH that I use has a simulated capacitance of >2FARADS which is getting into UltraCap territory.

 USB memory is another hairy area as some later ones are using ExFat and you may need to use a 3rd party application with Windows to change anything. I haven't gone too deeply into it, but I do have a small preference for FAT32, but the PSU area is to me far more revealing at this point in time.. 

52 minutes ago, numlog said:

I think this is intended purpose use of buffer, right? to remove these differences, but for whatever reason the larger buffer imparts its own influence on the sound, so for absolute best SQ its not a an ideal solution.

 

 That's an interesting one, as Gary (one and a half) would like to know more about too, as he reports the same too.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Does using a JCat Femto card mean that you no longer need to use an  aftermarket (usually expensive) USB cable such as the Lush  because a generic USB cable of the same length MUST then sound the same  ?  9_9

 

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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21 minutes ago, Dutch said:

 

Just as an FYI; in this case Romaz referred to the JCAT NET card, so the network interface card.

 

Agreed, however the question still stands , as many members use the JCat USB cards, some with Low noise Linear PSUs too.

 

Quote
https://jcat.eu › Shop › HI-END PC AUDIO ACCESSORIES

EUR 435.00 - ‎In stock
Audiophile USB Audio output for USB DACs & USB-to-S/PDIF converters. Top quality military grade linear regulators and filters eliminate noise interferences from a PC and guarantee superb sound. ... Femto Clock Technology (Crystek CCHD-957) lowers jitter below measurable levels.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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57 minutes ago, alfe said:

More jitter ??

You say that because you have an SSD 😉

Hi Al

 I have both, but I prefer the sound of the same file stored on both mediums from an SSD powered via the internal +12V rail using a +5V output voltage regulator into a John Linsley Hood designed PSU add-on (A.K.A. " Ripple Eater")  with a simulated capacitance of >2FARAD and <4uV noise.

It is more revealing without added harshness, but admittedly I may have also been able to gain a similar improvement if I powered the HDD via a dual +12V and +5V JLH, as I do for improving the performance of the LG GGW H20L that you designed.

Incidentally, yesterday I revisited the ripping performance of this BR writer using the JLH PSU and with the same tracks ripped  by this writer and the later  BD-RE BH10LS30 which was using the normal +12V and +5V supply, and  there was simply no contest with the LG GGW-H20L rips sounding markedly better, just as Martin Colloms confirmed way back in 2011 when using the markedly improved low noise  +12V and +5V JLH power supply.

 

Kind Regards

Alex

JLH Internal PSU for LG BR Writer..jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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31 minutes ago, numlog said:

its not hard to believe the HDD output does have more jitter in controlled conditions, but must differ in how it reacts with the rest of the PC i.e less jitter (or other sound influence) on the final output at speakers/headphones 

 

 Perhaps it's not fair of me though to compare the performance of an SSD when using a low noise regulated +5V supply which improves isolation from the main supply , compared with an HDD using the normal SMPS +12V and +5V supply ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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12 minutes ago, numlog said:

yet the HDD still seems to have better overall detail retrieval compared to SSD.

 

Added Jitter may sometimes give the appearance of an increase in HF detail.

 This is well documented by others, including Barrows from Sonore.

 

Jitter.


This is a quotation from Bob Katz, well known recording & audio mastering engineer posted here www.digido.com/audio-faq/j/jitter-better-sound.html

After an engineer learns to identify the sound of signal-correlated jitter, then you can move on to recognizing the more subtle forms of jitter and finally, can be more prepared to subjectively judge whether one source sounds better than another.

Here are some audible symptoms of jitter that allow us to determine that one source sounds "better" than another with a reasonable degree of scientific backing:

It is well known that jitter degrades stereo image, separation, depth, ambience, dynamic range.

Therefore, when during a listening comparison, comparing source A versus source B (and both have already been proved to be identical bitwise):

The source which exhibits greater stereo ambience and depth is the "better" one.

The source which exhibits more apparent dynamic range is the "better" one.

The source which is less edgy on the high end (most obvious sonic signature of signal correlated jitter) is the "better" one.

And a reply:
The better one, and it is better, is also easier to listen to. . . less fatiguing. I would also add to this that the low end just "feels" bigger and more solid. This is perhaps a psychoacoustic affect more than a measurable one. It may be that the combination of a less edgy high end and greater depth and width makes the bass seem better.

All of this makes sense if thought of in terms of timing (that is what we're talking about isn't it ;-]). With minimal jitter nothing is smeared, a note and all its harmonics line up, the sound is more liquid (a term probably from the "audiophile" crowd but one which accurately describes the sound none the less), and images within the soundstage are clearly defined.


Now some extra points:
- listener fatigue is reduced or completely eliminated
- the sound can be turned up higher without any distortion being evident
- the sound can also be turned down lower & the full dynamics are still retained but at a lower volume

 

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Jitter results in a more fatiguing sound, and may also give the appearance of a larger than life soundstage.

 Barrows did a good write up on the effects of Jitter several years ago. Perhaps you can ask him via a PM  to repost it again ?

 

Quote

Replacing external crystals on HDD PCB with low jitter XO is next thing on to-do list,

There is no point in doing this unless at the same time you markedly improve the stability and the noise level of it's power supply. Even a markedly improved power supply may help with typical Xtal Oscillators.

 Also, be wary of too much additional capacitance on the output of the Xtal Oscillator if not directly replacing the existing . Many don't like >15pF of output capacitance.(see Spec Sheets)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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2 hours ago, numlog said:

who are these newbies that manage to come here and avoid the other 95% of the internet (including half of this site, courtesy of your valiant efforts) that agree and perpetutate that ''bit are bits''? I think the people  here all already know what they hear is ''wrong''. you are free to waste your time though, 10000 posts later

 

 

 At the dawn of the CD age, many Audiophiles sought out the original Japan and West Germany pressed CDs, because they sounded much better than the multi generational  copies of the Masters used by the local CD manufacturers , DESPITE having the same data in most cases .

 Even in the USA , certain pressing plants were preferred by discerning Recording and Mastering Engineers because their pressings simply sounded better !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

Fortunately, as Barry Diament has said, these differences disappear once the CDs have been ripped to disc: 

 

 

 

 

NOT with the discs that I sent Barry !!! :P

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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18 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

I just sent you a monstrously large PM, which good sense will tell you not to bother reading ( :D )

 

 If I had good sense I would find a way to ignore those that try to provoke me, but like many other people I hate to leave their attacks unanswered as it makes it look like I have no answer to their attacks, and casual readers may then accept that they must be correct, and that I am full of shit.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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13 hours ago, kumakuma said:
  15 hours ago, STC said:

SandyK is offering the tracks so why not we start from there? 

 

Which post number was this in , or has this also been  removed ? :o

 

Re your items 1 to 3, I have no doubt whatsoever that these statements are 100 % accurate in YOUR case !

 Note also that I have recently offered on several occasions to provide a new version BluRay disc with around 17 pairs of comparison .mp4 music videos on them, where you can not only hear the differences, you can see them as well, at the same time,  but as usual nobody is interested .

 

More recently , John Dyson gave highly detailed reports on the differences between several files that I supplied, but after realising that they had identical checksums, had the posts from me removed entirely, instead of just asking for the editing out of the personal stuff.

 Nobody has disproved Mani's reports either, which are fairly similar to mine.

 I have also been told in Rajiv's huge thread that I am preaching to the converted.:P

 

Why don't you stop dragging me into this, to have your buddies complain when I reply ?

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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24 minutes ago, mansr said:

It has also not been confirmed, and won't be. A single test result proves nothing.

 

Neither does apparently a series of 6 separate correctly set up Blind A/B/A, 3 minutes of each by a qualified E.E, with 8 repeats in each, and not using the same participants in all of them, to people like yourself.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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7 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

I can see this as a plausible explanation.

 

I would also like to highlight that this is completely different from what Alex is claiming  (identical files played under identical conditions sounding different on a consistent basis). 

 

 Wake up !

 IF the saved files were identical then they would sound identical. Clearly there ARE differences that the Checksums and other Binary checks are presently incapable of showing.

It has already been recently demonstrated that even .md5 checksums  can be fooled.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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7 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I was referring to files that are identical when compared bit-by-bit to each others. This has nothing to do with checksums.

 Once again, WAKE UP !

 According to presently accepted theory, if they are identical when compared bit by bit to each other, then the checksums WILL be identical too.

 You need to do as I just suggested in my previous post. Forget the BINARY DATA checks and closely examine the actual digital stream waveforms.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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19 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

I am glad that both of the manxx people did this test

 

  ???

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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