Computer Storage - Best Practices

[davide256]

I now use 1 GB of class 10 SDXC memory in a Lexar USB tower, powered by an LPS 1.2 and connected to my Roon server.  I've noted high frequency transient loss with internal or external attached HD. Do need to do a comparison of SSD powered by LPS 1.2, have not compared yet.

 

Optane is not viable as anything other than buffer storage,  you need a minimum of 1gb for long term storage and many need quite a bit more. Not a real world option for storage.

 

NAS is just a computer designed to serve files... in general the CPU is woefully under powered for audio. Few available choices if you want the benefit of Roon's RAAT protocol.

[davide256]

15 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi David,

 

What model for the Lexar please?

 

And what voltage does it take? (You mentioned LPS-1.2 but I have an unused LPS-1 kicking around so I'm wondering if this could be a fairly inexpensive experiment - assuming the Lexar doesn't need 12v)

 

Also I assume 4 x 256gb SD cards?

 

Cheers,

Alan

this is basically a device for photographers who want a fast solution for use of their photo memory cards

 

USB tower

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1002489-REG/lexar_lrwhr1rbna_professional_workflow_hub_hr1.html/?ap=y&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4fHkBRDcARIsACV58_EJkeaGjDUmt0HiP1d4nNOvHsdbZf0893E1Bo5qf7cyvkb8arD__n0aAq3yEALw_wcB&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y

 

you will need at least 1 SDXC card reader, seems like these aren't in supply at the moment

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186727-REG/lexar_lrwsr2tbna_professional_workflow_sr2_sd.html

 

the voltage is standard USB 5v so if the original LPS1 had 5V option, it can be used

 

there are faster cards now but the 95 MBs cards are more attractively priced, possibly closeout pricing ?

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1186714-REG/lexar_lsd512cbnl633_512gb_professional_uhs_i_sdxc.html

[davide256]

@lmitche  , did you ever try external SSD for AL server powered by  an Uptone Audio LPS 1/1.2?  From all your posts so far I get the impression  you don't like SSD

for AL media drive.

[davide256]

On 3/26/2019 at 11:18 PM, Nenon said:

@davide256 - do you mean 1 TB? Still trying to understand your post, and it would make more sense if you meant 1 TB, not 1 GB.

you are correct, I use 2 x 512GB SDXC cards.

[davide256]

3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Out of interest do you think there's any difference in SQ when you add more SD cards?

 

i.e. does one 512GB card sound different to two?

 

Cheers,

Alan

None that I can tell. PS does make a difference when using this HW with AL. Play back with stock power supply or an iFi 5v power supply sounds compressed compared to

using LPS 1.2,  less low bass weight.

[davide256]

12 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi @davide256,

 

So the HR1, SR2 and SD card are all here. Planning on comparing to my SSD this weekend but obviously the need to remove an SSD means A-B-ing needs a bit of a gap.

 

But couple questions meantime:

 

Firstly, I noticed the HR1 light stays powered on when I remove the AC power supply. So do I need to disable USB power? And is it possible to do so?

 

Secondly, do you use an audiophile USB cable or short USB attachment in between the HR1 and your server? 

 

Many Thanks,

Alan

It doesn't appear that there is any way to run off adaptor power only, although we could try the trick of taping over the USB 5v lead and see if all still works.

 

Using a plain vanilla USB3 cable with the device, for some reason the Wireworld starlight USB3 cable I have and it are temperamental about working together,

50/50 chance the device won't be seen at boot.

 

Might be like shooting fish in a barrel to compare an internally powered SATA connected SSD to an external LPS 1.2 powered USB3 connected

SDXC media solution. I plan to order a few external  2.5"  USB3 connected cases that can accept external power so that I can try a like comparison

with SSD... I'm not sold yet that SSD has any problems other than the environment powering it. 

 

 

[davide256]

On 4/4/2019 at 5:01 PM, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi @davide256,

 

So the HR1, SR2 and SD card are all here. Planning on comparing to my SSD this weekend but obviously the need to remove an SSD means A-B-ing needs a bit of a gap.

 

But couple questions meantime:

 

Firstly, I noticed the HR1 light stays powered on when I remove the AC power supply. So do I need to disable USB power? And is it possible to do so?

 

Secondly, do you use an audiophile USB cable or short USB attachment in between the HR1 and your server? 

 

Many Thanks,

Alan

Tried  taping off the 5v Vcc pin 1on USB cable, the Lexar USB tower  does require the 5v USB lead be active in order to work. Awaiting another

2.5" 5V externally power-able enclosure to compare SSD, ruled out the 1 I already have because it has a built in USB3 hub... which also annoyingly means its

not usable/recognized for PS4 external storage.

[davide256]

11 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

I am not talking about measurements and rarely do.

 

But I'll be glad to look at any published articles on psychoacoustics you want to cite.

mmm, and which of the 3~7 schools of psychology would psychoacoustics fall into?  Anyone out there who has reached the age where tinnitus is personally

real knows how primitive the medical science of hearing is.

[davide256]

8 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

medical practice is not a science - your surgeon will make that clear before he opens you up

 

modern medical practice is based on science (one reason audiophools are not admitted in any state)

 

you might benefit by starting with a cognitive psychology text - I posted one title on here a while back; you can then go take a look at what sensory labs are doing right now -- it will reinforce the need for blind testing

 

sorry about your tinnitus - it is one of many ailments that may mean you can get by with a lower quality system (to look on the bright side)

 if you have no experience with tinnitus, here is how you can duplicate it

 

1) find an old 25" picture tube TV that still works

2) take the back of the TV and turn it on

3) sit with your ear near to the back of the picture tube and enjoy that ultrasonic like hum

4) record it and then have someone randomly raise and lower the volume level during your day

 

So not an impediment to getting value out of a quality system but  when the tinnitus "volume gets turned up", not a great time to do any listening

that requires analytic concentration.... better to go watch /listen to blue ray movies with lots of explosions and crashes 😉

[davide256]

10 hours ago, abulr said:

 

was having this discussion with an engineer colleague at work...
if a digital bit is just a 1 or 0... and it's all going to a machine that will C that D to an A
why does it matter what machine sends that 1 or 0 and how it's sent?
i apologize and i'm not trying to stir up an argument
i just want to know what is wrong with my logic above

in the interest of preventing any further arguments - may i suggest that if you agree with the above and to you a "bit is a bit" - please refrain from posting a response that calls the other side "unicorn believers" etc etc

and from the side that believes for example "SD Card is far superior than SSD" for SQ... does anyone have a thought as to why? I'll start... is it possible that one bus is more error-prone on reproducing these 0's and 1's?...

I suspect there is a trade off where an SSD while not bad in and of itself, can be  a bad USB out  neighbor inside the computer chassis. I don't believe that read errors are the issue here so much as an electrically dirty environment from read activity causing bad sound with USB out. I'd prefer to see digital audio players read playlists to memory and "lock out" disk read/write during audio processing.

[davide256]

Dusted off an old Sabrent "toaster" for 2.5/3.5" drives, believe it only does SATA II but does support USB3.

It accepts 12V DC, verified I can power up a HD/SSD using an LPS 1.2. Will try some comparisons using the LPS 1.2

as power source between

 

existing Lexar USB3 attached media stack with 2x 512GB  SDXC

Sabrent disk device with  generic 5400 RPM 500GB HD

Sabrent disk device with 128GB Crucal MX100 SSD

 

not the latest greatest media storage tech, but will see...

[davide256]

12 hours ago, davide256 said:

Dusted off an old Sabrent "toaster" for 2.5/3.5" drives, believe it only does SATA II but does support USB3.

It accepts 12V DC, verified I can power up a HD/SSD using an LPS 1.2. Will try some comparisons using the LPS 1.2

as power source between

 

existing Lexar USB3 attached media stack with 2x 512GB  SDXC

Sabrent disk device with  generic 5400 RPM 500GB HD

Sabrent disk device with 128GB Crucal MX100 SSD

 

not the latest greatest media storage tech, but will see...

Could take a while for comparisons  as each listening comparison  requires rebooting server and 

switching media type &/or connections

 

Did a first pass with CD soundtrack of Dances with Wolves, John Barry composer. 

 

HD sound was pleasant, detailed, good tone color but seemed rolled off on extreme highs and hard sound transient edges

SSD was aggressively bright but much better on extreme highs and hard sound transient edges

SDXC was better balanced than SSD, with same correctness on highs and hard sound transients but still seemed a little forward

on overall treble spectrum

What I  noted with both SSD and SDXC was a tendency to excite what I believe is 3rd order harmonic distortion. Using max oversampling

in Roon with SSD and SDXC  to push DAC chip distortion components higher in frequency mitigated aggressiveness  but

spectrum balance differences remained. With HD I preferred no oversampling.

 

[davide256]

On 4/28/2019 at 10:12 AM, davide256 said:

Could take a while for comparisons  as each listening comparison  requires rebooting server and 

switching media type &/or connections

 

Did a first pass with CD soundtrack of Dances with Wolves, John Barry composer. 

 

HD sound was pleasant, detailed, good tone color but seemed rolled off on extreme highs and hard sound transient edges

SSD was aggressively bright but much better on extreme highs and hard sound transient edges

SDXC was better balanced than SSD, with same correctness on highs and hard sound transients but still seemed a little forward

on overall treble spectrum

What I  noted with both SSD and SDXC was a tendency to excite what I believe is 3rd order harmonic distortion. Using max oversampling

in Roon with SSD and SDXC  to push DAC chip distortion components higher in frequency mitigated aggressiveness  but

spectrum balance differences remained. With HD I preferred no oversampling.

 

Still playing around with this

 

1) tried a 3.5" 4TB WD Red, possibly a little duller on transients than the 500GB 2.5" drive, not an appreciable difference

2) discovering that treble aggressiveness depends on the quality of PS used with server NUC and media drives. On continued listening

with stock SMPS on server and LPS 1.2 with 2.5" drive I could hear aggressiveness in mid treble... I suspect the dilution of upper treble

masked this initially vs SDXC/SSD. Dedicating the SoTM SPS-500 to the server NUC greatly reduced the edgy aggressive sound of massed high pitch violins

and electronic sounds for both 2.5" and SDXC media drives.

3) have ordered a 1TB 7200 RPM 2.5 Seagate Barracuda pro (no SSD components) and a newer 12v docking station that does support SATA III as

its possible that slower SATAII/drive RPM's could be affecting treble transients.