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Just now, Miska said:

The filter doesn't seem so far from the MQA filters. And it was introduced at the same time with MQA support. So I'm wondering how much there is actually common ground between the two...

 

 

I remember some discussion at the time it was released about it being (basically) an MQA-type filter; i.e., very "leaky" and little attenuation.  

 

Given we know their engineers like "bit perfect" mode (i.e., no filtering at all), not surprised they have provided this and think it sounds good.

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16 minutes ago, Miska said:

The filter doesn't seem so far from the MQA filters. And it was introduced at the same time with MQA support. So I'm wondering how much there is actually common ground between the two...

They say it "was developed by iFi according to our specifications in conjunction with the MQA team."

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13 hours ago, Em2016 said:

And they knew some of you would wonder this so they added: 

 

"We must make clear that GTO is not directly related to filter types used by MQA, it is not “MQA through the backdoor”

How is it then that the 96 kHz and 192 kHz versions are exactly the same as MQA filters found in the Bluesound firmware? I don't immediately see a direct match for the 48 kHz version, but the MQA decoding wouldn't normally need such a filter either.

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5 minutes ago, mansr said:

How is it then that the 96 kHz and 192 kHz versions are exactly the same as MQA filters found in the Bluesound firmware?

 

It is MQA through the backdoor? 😧

 

The good thing about the current iFi DACs is you have options to use other non-MQA related filters, so not too big a deal.

 

Hopefully it remains that way for future products.

 

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@mansr

 

with regards to measurements, thank you for penning a very in-depth article. 

 

We have done many firmware updates and our 5.30C is just another one. We always like to give our customers a choice. If you like what a given FW does, please use it. If you don't, then don't. Just like Bit-Perfect, we like this but we don't insist that our customers must use this too. So if someone doesn't like what they measure, we won't judge. Truly.
 

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3 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

@mansr

 

with regards to measurements, thank you for penning a very in-depth article. 

 

We have done many firmware updates and our 5.30C is just another one. We always like to give our customers a choice. If you like what a given FW does, please use it. If you don't, then don't. Just like Bit-Perfect, we like this but we don't insist that our customers must use this too. So if someone doesn't like what they measure, we won't judge. Truly.
 

 

Just to be clear, if you want to avoid GTO filter then you have to download 5.3 (not 5.3C).  If you want to avoid GTO & MQA altogether, you have to download "5.2 & 5.2A, 5.2B ‘Limoncello’"  from here:

 

http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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1 minute ago, crenca said:

 

Just to be clear, if you want to avoid GTO filter then you have to download 5.3 (not 5.3C).  If you want to avoid GTO & MQA altogether, you have to download "5.2 & 5.2A, 5.2B ‘Limoncello’"  from here:

 

http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/

 

Yeh but none of that applies to Pro iDSD, their newest DAC.

 

There are non-MQA and non-GTO filters to choose from.

 

In addition to “bit perfect” and you can do digital filtering before the DAC if you want.

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2 hours ago, crenca said:

 

Just to be clear, if you want to avoid GTO filter then you have to download 5.3 (not 5.3C).  If you want to avoid GTO & MQA altogether, you have to download "5.2 & 5.2A, 5.2B ‘Limoncello’"  from here:

 

http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/

 

Or you can upsample non-MQA material with Audirvana+, HQPlayer, or some other program (preferably to DSD, since IIRC according to Miska, the available sigma-delta modulators aren't great).

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11 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

@mansr

 

with regards to measurements, thank you for penning a very in-depth article. 

 

We have done many firmware updates and our 5.30C is just another one. We always like to give our customers a choice. If you like what a given FW does, please use it. If you don't, then don't. Just like Bit-Perfect, we like this but we don't insist that our customers must use this too. So if someone doesn't like what they measure, we won't judge. Truly.
 

 

Hi iFi thanks for chiming in. Just a small remark in context of this topic

-I hope we can keep non-MQA/GTO filter on future devices. Not everyone is a fan, if new firmware becomes the norm the old filters would be gone.

-I do wonder about truncating the samples to 18 bits, since this is not documented anywhere. With people feeding the iFi with high quality HQPlayer upsampled content, it is a little unexpected it gets dithered down to 18 bits!

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Is upsampling to, for example, DSD256 what you would describe as putting greater demands on the analog filter?

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> wi-fi to router -> EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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9 minutes ago, Jud said:

Is upsampling to, for example, DSD256 what you would describe as putting greater demands on the analog filter?

I was talking about PCM only. DSD is a different kettle of fish with its own issues.

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30 minutes ago, mansr said:

One problem. The DSD1793 works better with 192 kHz input than 384 kHz. This is because the 192 kHz input is upsampled 8x to 1536 kHz, greatly reducing the demands of the analogue filter (external to the chip).

 

And what happens with 384kHz input? Up-sampled to what rate?

 

Or it's not up-sampled to a higher rate?

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3 hours ago, mansr said:

One problem. The DSD1793 works better with 192 kHz input than 384 kHz. This is because the 192 kHz input is upsampled 8x to 1536 kHz, greatly reducing the demands of the analogue filter (external to the chip). With the weak 2nd order filter of the Nano, this makes a real difference.

 

Do you or anyone else know if the analogue filter in the Nano is the same as the one in the micro iDAC2 (non black label version(s) - and for that matter do the black lable version have a different analog filter)?  I have a Nano I travel with, but I use the micro iDAC2 in my HP rig when I am not using some other DAC...

Hey MQA, if it is not all $voodoo$, show us the math!

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