Streamers ranked by sound quality

[misterspense]

Ranking a streamer in a one dimensional “best to worst” is not easy, preference on the type of sound plays a role here.

I have found that some streamers offer more clarity, wider soundstage, more (perceived?) details, but mostly at the cost of less fundament in the lows (or is that tighter lows?) and less accurate timbre.

In the end I tend to prefer better timbre and more substantial lows, this keeps me returning to a not usual suspect: the CCA connected through the optical output. Note the standard CCA is not great, but with an improved power supply and fed through an ethernet adapter to give the small puck the best power and a hard wired ethernet signal, it starts to sound quit good.

 

 

Chromecast audio from Roon or Tidal (Power: medical grade SMPS —> 8V LT3045 —> USB regen (only to make clean 5V)—> CCA, Network: UGreen ethernet adapter). Optical out by mini toslink.

 

Allo digione (standard wallwart, Roonbridge Gentooplayer)

SoTM SMS-100, into Uptone USB regen into Schiit Eitr (Roon to squeezelite)

 

Fanless nuc (Gentooplayer or Euphony), into Uptone USB regen, Schiit Eitr

 

 

 

[bluesman]

54 minutes ago, misterspense said:

Note the standard CCA is not great, but with an improved power supply and fed through an ethernet adapter to give the small puck the best power and a hard wired ethernet signal, it starts to sound quit good.

I agree that CCA is excellent through its optical out - I have them in several rooms at home.  But I thought the only possible network connection was WiFi.  How do you connect a CCA to an RJ45?

[athegn]

48 minutes ago, bluesman said:

I agree that CCA is excellent through its optical out - I have them in several rooms at home.  But I thought the only possible network connection was WiFi.  How do you connect a CCA to an RJ45?

 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QV0K210/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[athegn]

Sorry I mean this:-

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N1X28F1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[bluesman]

1 hour ago, athegn said:

Sorry I mean this:-

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N1X28F1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Interesting - the responses I've seen on Google's Chromecast help page say this:  "Wired connection is only available to Chromecast Ultra".  But I just looked at the Google Chromecast ethernet adapter page again, and it now says that it works with CCA too.  This is progress that I frankly never expected, once CCA was discontinued.  The Google adapter is only $15, but I assume it has their standard USB PS inside - and whether this affects SQ is a little controversial.  It's "only" 10/100 Mbps (man, how soon we forget what an advance 100 was!).  This is plenty of bandwidth for high res audio from most streaming services.  Tidal HiFi is the highest speed spec I've seen (1.5) except for Deezer (5Mbps for elite and 10 for multiple streams at once).

 

There are many web posts on many sites about hard wiring a network connection to CCA, and they seem to be spilt about equally among "works fine", "works with some fiddling around", and "couldn't get it to work".  Did that adapter work for you immediately on plugging everything in?  Any details you can offer would be greatly appreciated, e.g. can you set a fixed IP address?   Does using an ethernet connection change the process for Chromecasting directly?  Do you know if it changes the way a CCA appears on and integrates with other zones on JRiver, Roon etc?

 

Thanks!!

 

David

[athegn]

Yes just plugged in and it worked. The reason I went for this adaptor is that this CCA drives my Sennheiser RS180 headphones which is positioned a long way from a WAP but near an Ethernet wall socket.

 

I also have an Onkyo TX8270 receiver with CCA in-built, to drive my speakers; the Onkyo is next to a network switch so that also has hard-wired ethernet.

 

My source for for both CCAs is my Andriod phone or tablet; normally an old 2.4Ghz tablet (I must admit that as this is so old I sometimes have to fiddle to get it to work e.g. power down the tablet then reboot, but most days it just works) but tonight my 5Ghz phone (phone always seems to work). Only the phone has an email client and I want to pass a YouTube live code to my browser and then to a CCA.

 

I just open up Google Home on the phone/tablet start the CCA and choose the media app. Media apps I use are BBC Sounds, PowerAmp, Qobuz and Chrome browser. I only use these so no idea how Roon, jRiver or others interact.


 

[xllms]

On 5/4/2020 at 6:43 PM, smodtactical said:

Any thoughts on bricasti m5?

 

Also anyone try a soundaware D300ref ?

I am also curious to find out how the soundaware D300ref compare with the rest mentioned here. 

 

I am new to streaming and is planning to purchase a good quality streamer. Some of the streamers short listed are as follows:

a) Soundaware D300ref

b) Volumio Primo

c) Lumin U1 mini 

 

 

[vrdsp0]

my own ranking (based on best achievable sound with an external good performance DAC) :

 

1. Best by far - Lumin U1 mini (USB output, no external PSU), lack Chromecast, DSD upsampling. Fast boot. Rock Stable. Always on due to low consumption. Maybe a remote will come one day. Lack Deezer.

 

2. HAP Z1 ES (USB output), DSD support, Spotify Connect, remote, screen. I liked it a lot, but slow upload of files. Though I did not A/B test, the Burr Brown integrated DAC of the Z1ES should be better than CXN v2. The Z1ES to TEAC UD503 (with AK4490) via USB was more resolving, dynamic and enjoyable than Z1ES internal DAC.

 

Then DIY solutions (requires time to set-up)

2 ex-aequo. Daphile (USB output) inside a Virtual Machine on a HP Microserver Gen8, no Spotify Connect as far as I remember, no chromeCast, DSD support, rock solid, very old interface, DIY solution. No difference between Real Time kerrnel and the other.

3. Raspberry 3 with RuneAudio (USB output), no Chromecast possible (blocked by Google), Spotify Connect is a patch, volumio-like interface, DIY solution, DSD support, upsampling possible and more.

4. Raspberry 3 with Volumio (USB output), I don't like the interface, Spotify Connect module available, DSD support. Not as customizable than RuneAudio through the UI.

 

Then

5. Cambridge CXN v2 (coaxial output), has a screen and IR remote, has Chromecast and Spotify Connect. no USB output. Very slow boot. Chromecast is slow to engage. Internal Wolfson DAC is already good but I prefer comparable Burr Brown implementations. Coaxial output does not benefit from the AFT upsampling technology. Would have been nice, as modern ESS DACs are now even better than Burr Brown and Wolfson.

5 ex-aequo. Chromecast Audio (optical output). Always on due to ultra low consumption. Chromecast is fast to engage.

 

Not tested Bluesound Node 2i because of no DSD support without transcoding collection before, no screen and no USB output. May try one day, did anyone compare bluesound Node 2i with cambridge cxn V2, on their SPDIF outputs ?

 

 

[Rexp]

Strong preference for the Primare NP5 over the Node 2i towards the end of this review:

 

https://twitteringmachines.com/review-bryston-b135-cubed-integrated-amplifier/

 

 

[davide256]

i've been down the RPI3b+ route, acceptable with an Allo Digione though slow on transients. All options tried using the USB port were flawed compared to a microRendu

for USB out. Tried running Audiolinux on RPI3b+ but not enough processing power, could hear some promise. May go back and try an RPI 4 with Audiolinux   to see

if its reached critical mass

[audiobomber]

7 minutes ago, davide256 said:

i've been down the RPI3b+ route, acceptable with an Allo Digione though slow on transients. All options tried using the USB port were flawed compared to a microRendu

for USB out. Tried running Audiolinux on RPI3b+ but not enough processing power, could hear some promise. May go back and try an RPI 4 with Audiolinux   to see

if its reached critical mass

Blocking the USB 5V bus from the Pi 3B+ is critical. The DAC must be powered separately. I've used an iFi iDefender to inject outboard power, but I prefer a dual head USB cable with separate power leg.

[davide256]

1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

Blocking the USB 5V bus from the Pi 3B+ is critical. The DAC must be powered separately. I've used an iFi iDefender to inject outboard power, but I prefer a dual head USB cable with separate power leg.

I had an ISO Regen with LPS 1.2 at the time, for me it couldn't fix the flaws of RPI3b+, kind of a dirty sound for low level background instruments.

Much better success using NUC's although they are imperfect also for voltage noise on USB out leads. When i was using Roon  the Pentium NUC's

running Audiolinux with a good PS seemed the sweet spot for price vs performance in distributed Roon endpoints. But thats been over a year ago,

cost of better computing hardware  always improves over time, hopefully the RPI4 can give a Pentium NUC a run for the money in an

electrically quieter package...

[audiobomber]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

I had an ISO Regen with LPS 1.2 at the time, for me it couldn't fix the flaws of RPI3b+, kind of a dirty sound for low level background instruments.

 

I agree, there are plenty of higher quality digital transports. I doubt the Pi 4 will compete with higher quality devices either. Most pro reviews have been underwhelming, some claiming a Pi 4 sounds worse than a 3B+, although I have not heard one myself. 

 

When I fried my 3B+ a few months ago, I replaced it with the same unit rather than go to the 4, mainly because of the controversial SQ reports.

[Pro Jules]

I only stream from Qobuz (I have no audio files) 

My rig at the moment

 

Qobuz - Remote controlled by Lightning DS app - iPhone

Auralic Aries g1 (32 bit USB out)

Mutec MC3+USB reclocker - with Mutec SF10 SE120 master clock 

Grace M903 DAC 

[jaaptina]

On 7/11/2019 at 8:38 AM, jaaptina said:

Minimserver (on NAS) / Tidal --> Minidsp SHD Studio --> Job INTegrated --> Penaudio Cenya (speakers) 😃

Update:

Minimserver (on NAS) / Tidal --> Sotm sms-200 --> Minidsp SHD Studio --> Pass Korg B1--> Purifi Eval1 --> Penaudio Cenya (speakers) 😃

[BilboAlaska]

1 hour ago, jaaptina said:

Update:

Minimserver (on NAS) / Tidal --> Sotm sms-200 --> Minidsp SHD Studio --> Pass Korg B1--> Purifi Eval1 --> Penaudio Cenya (speakers) 😃

 

Off topic, but I have a pair of Penaudio Cenya which are very nice. I don't see them mentioned often.  I got them because I have a Sonneteer Orton amp and the company Mr Haider B recommended it.

I like them better than other speakers that I have in other rooms, ie: Spendor A6, Rogers LS3/5a, Castle Severn and Richmond, and Dynaco A25. I sold the Quad 11L Classic. 

[audiobomber]

I just read a review on TAS from December 29, 2021:                                                                                            

“Do streamers have a sound?” They are basically file movers. They move digital data, which in this case happens to be music, from point A to point B. Music files enter via Ethernet or Wi-Fi and are sent to a DAC. Ideally nothing should alter their contents or error-rate. Whether there are functions or factors within the network signal chain that can or do alter the final results appears to be a subject that inspires passionate and polarized debate. My position is pragmatic. A simple, well-designed, robust streaming-signal chain should not have an audible effect on the sound of a music file."
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ifi-zen-stream/3

 

It's shocking to me to read something like that, in a respectable audio magazine, this late in the life of computer audio. If Steven Stone can't hear differences in streamers, or even the same streamer with upgrades, there is something drastically wrong with his system. The most valuable info I get on computer audio is from audiophiles and forums, especially this one. Most audio magazines are years behind.

[MrUnderhill]

1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

It's shocking to me to read something like that, .....

Can he have listened to many one wonders! Bizarre

[stefano_mbp]

1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

should not have an audible effect on the sound of a music file."

Read carefully, he is using the conditional, in theory he would be right ... the practice is another thing ... maybe

… the conjugation of a verb is important …

[audiobomber]

39 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

Read carefully, he is using the conditional, in theory he would be right ... the practice is another thing ... maybe

… the conjugation of a verb is important …

I don't think the qualifier is worth much, because he uses Raspberry Pi streamers, which IME are not good compared to what most are using here.

[Cebolla]

4 hours ago, audiobomber said:

I just read a review on TAS from December 29, 2021:                                                                                            

“Do streamers have a sound?” They are basically file movers. They move digital data, which in this case happens to be music, from point A to point B. Music files enter via Ethernet or Wi-Fi and are sent to a DAC. Ideally nothing should alter their contents or error-rate. Whether there are functions or factors within the network signal chain that can or do alter the final results appears to be a subject that inspires passionate and polarized debate. My position is pragmatic. A simple, well-designed, robust streaming-signal chain should not have an audible effect on the sound of a music file."

 

I would not bother taking anything in the review seriously after reading this common newbie error - DACs do not input music files!

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

51 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

I would have stopped reading after this common newbie error - DACs do not input music files!

 

He is referring to streamers, not DACs. 

 

As for his conclusion, I believe this is what we all wish for. 

[Cebolla]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

He is referring to streamers, not DACs. 

 

??? You may just have said that you like herrings, especially red ones. What has what you've just said got to do with what I actually highlighted as an obvious fundamental error in what was quoted from his review? 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

36 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

 

??? You may just have said that you like herrings, especially red ones. What has what you've just said got to do with what I actually highlighted as an obvious fundamental error in what was quoted from his review? 

 

Well, let me repeat it so you can take a few more minutes to try to understand before jumping at my throat again..

 

The author of the article does not make a "fundamental error" as he is talking about music streamers, which do in fact input music files (in various formats, and using various protocols), as you say. He is not talking about DACs. 

 

[Cebolla]

Repeating the logical fallacy doesn't make what I'm saying false - I'd stop digging if I were you. Let me take you back to the section of the quote from the review that I highlighted in my original post, read it and actually try to be a bit more careful about it this time, if you really want to have a sensible discussion about this:

8 hours ago, audiobomber said:

I just read a review on TAS from December 29, 2021:                                                                                            

“Do streamers have a sound?” They are basically file movers. They move digital data, which in this case happens to be music, from point A to point B. Music files enter via Ethernet or Wi-Fi and are sent to a DAC. Ideally nothing should alter their contents or error-rate. Whether there are functions or factors within the network signal chain that can or do alter the final results appears to be a subject that inspires passionate and polarized debate. My position is pragmatic. A simple, well-designed, robust streaming-signal chain should not have an audible effect on the sound of a music file."

 

I've even made it a bit easier for you by also providing you with just the offending sentence: just in case all those surrounding words are making it hard for you to pick out:

8 hours ago, audiobomber said:

Music files enter via Ethernet or Wi-Fi and are sent to a DAC.