Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[tedwoods]

Please excuse my ignorance, but can Euphony/Stylus be used in the server outputting (through DLNA?) to let's say a SOtM endpoint, or is it only through Roon and HQPlayer that this function is available?

[fajita]

On 2/26/2020 at 9:47 AM, davide256 said:

The hang is mostly likely a network caused phenomena. If you are using the mac as server it really should be a wired connection.

 

I think wires are crossed as far as my issue - I have no MAC, and no wireless connections.

 

I also accept that there could be a network issue, however, most network elements have been changed for troubleshooting and I have another dedicated PC acting as a streamer which is on the same network and runs Euphony as an endpoint with Roon Bridge without a single issue.

 

Ryan

[Anwar]

With the latest Euphony updates, I am getting better sound quality without ramroot - the music flows more naturally.  With ramroom, music sounds more compressed.

 

Also, with ramroot, the album artwork display is okay sometimes but not okay most of the times.  No such problem when ramroot is disabled.

 

The buffering of an album/folder runs into problem when total file size is greater than 8GB.  I have some DSD256 albums purchased from Blue Coast where Euphony runs out of memory after reading 8 tracks into buffer, so it did not read the remaining tracks.  When I tried to play the 9th track, Euphony shows file not found error.

 

My setup: NUC7i5BNH with 16GB RAM, Euphony O/S in M.2 Samsung EVO 970, music in 2TB external Samsung EVO 860 SSD connected thru iFi Micro iUSB3 which is also used as USB reclocker between NUC and Marantz SA-10 USB audio input.  Music playback with Euphony Stylus only.

[Chopin75]

31 minutes ago, Anwar said:

With the latest Euphony updates, I am getting better sound quality without ramroot - the music flows more naturally.  With ramroom, music sounds more compressed.

 

Also, with ramroot, the album artwork display is okay sometimes but not okay most of the times.  No such problem when ramroot is disabled.

 

The buffering of an album/folder runs into problem when total file size is greater than 8GB.  I have some DSD256 albums purchased from Blue Coast where Euphony runs out of memory after reading 8 tracks into buffer, so it did not read the remaining tracks.  When I tried to play the 9th track, Euphony shows file not found error.

 

My setup: NUC7i5BNH with 16GB RAM, Euphony O/S in M.2 Samsung EVO 970, music in 2TB external Samsung EVO 860 SSD connected thru iFi Micro iUSB3 which is also used as USB reclocker between NUC and Marantz SA-10 USB audio input.  Music playback with Euphony Stylus only.

I had issue with Ramroot SQwhen I was using G Skill RAM 16 GB, like you. said reg RAM is better,so I updated to Apacer and there is improvement in SQ esp in RAMroot such that it is better than reg RAM. I have also run out of RAM with DSD256. I ended up increasing to 32 GB. I think if you use 16 GB things would improve a lot. To run ramRoot with DSD256, it needs at least 16 GB, depending on how long a track is 

[Lukasluis]

1 hour ago, Chopin75 said:

I had issue with Ramroot SQwhen I was using G Skill RAM 16 GB, like you. said reg RAM is better,so I updated to Apacer and there is improvement in SQ esp in RAMroot such that it is better than reg RAM. I have also run out of RAM with DSD256. I ended up increasing to 32 GB. I think if you use 16 GB things would improve a lot. To run ramRoot with DSD256, it needs at least 16 GB, depending on how long a track is 

Hi, May I know which Apacer model are you using and links where to puchase please? Looking for my NUC8i7BNH. Thanks.

[Chopin75]

1 minute ago, Lukasluis said:

Hi, May I know which Apacer model are you using and links where to puchase please? Looking for my NUC8i7BNH. Thanks.

I got mine that is not available for commercial sale. But in general any Apacer ECC works best. If your NUC does not support Apacer ECC you can get non-ECC. I can't remember off my had what model mine is. Somewhere there is discussion of this ether on this thread or the huge original thread "A novel way to..." 

[organics1]

So, is my little Partaker fanless pc with 4GB of RAM useless when it comes to the big DSD files? Currently, I'm using Daphile and I have no problem whatever with those files, some of which are double, quad, and octuple rates, and bigger than 8GB.

I was just days away from making the Euphony OS purchase when I ran across this thread. Glad I kept searching for reviews and info.

Is the company working on a fix? Or is Euphony and DSD just not the best match without huge computer resources?

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, organics1 said:

So, is my little Partaker fanless pc with 4GB of RAM useless when it comes to the big DSD files? Currently, I'm using Daphile and I have no problem whatever with those files, some of which are double, quad, and octuple rates, and bigger than 8GB.

I was just days away from making the Euphony OS purchase when I ran across this thread. Glad I kept searching for reviews and info.

Is the company working on a fix? Or is Euphony and DSD just not the best match without huge computer resources?

I think there is some confusion.  I think the problem  above was running in RAM.    When I was running Euphony I always had 16GB of RAM so I never ran with with only 4BG of RAM.

[auricgoldfinger]

9 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

Hi, May I know which Apacer model are you using and links where to puchase please? Looking for my NUC8i7BNH. Thanks.

 

Look for this model D21.23180S.001, DRAM_DDR4 SODIMM 2666-19 512x8 4GB SA-E Industrial HF, assuming it's compatible with your NUC.  There are 8GB and 16GB versions with different part numbers.  If you can't find it online, try contacting the Apacer representative in your country or region.

[Anwar]

19 hours ago, organics1 said:

So, is my little Partaker fanless pc with 4GB of RAM useless when it comes to the big DSD files? Currently, I'm using Daphile and I have no problem whatever with those files, some of which are double, quad, and octuple rates, and bigger than 8GB.

I was just days away from making the Euphony OS purchase when I ran across this thread. Glad I kept searching for reviews and info.

Is the company working on a fix? Or is Euphony and DSD just not the best match without huge computer resources?

Euphony can play DSD, no issues with huge computer resources.  The problem I reported was about buffering the whole album (or whole songs in playlist) when it exceeds 8GB.  If the buffering of whole songs in playlist is turned off, Euphony will only buffer (read into memory) the next song to be played.

 

My NUC7iBNH has 16GB RAM.  Even when ramroot is disabled, Euphony allocates max 8GB for buffering and O/S.  I hope this limitation can be fixed.

[TheAttorney]

23 minutes ago, Anwar said:

  If the buffering of whole songs in playlist is turned off, Euphony will only buffer (read into memory) the next song to be played.

 

Actually, there are two separate options:

1. Buffer next track (the original option)

2. Buffer the whole queue of tracks to be played (the recently introduced further option).

 

If you disable both options, then there is no track buffering, so 4GB RAM should be enough to play any sized file in theory (I haven't ever needed to test this in practice).

 

However, I find it strange that @organics1 has gone to the trouble of getting huge DSD files (presumably for SQ reasons), yet continues to struggle with a paltry 4GB of RAM. And thereby misses out on a variety of SQ improvement options. IMO, attention to server improvements (not just RAM) is more important to ultimate SQ than the file type of the music tracks. I am frequently astonished by what can be achieved with my redbook FLAC files (a lot does also depend on the DAC design for this PCM/DSD question).

[organics1]

12 hours ago, Anwar said:

Euphony can play DSD, no issues with huge computer resources.  The problem I reported was about buffering the whole album (or whole songs in playlist) when it exceeds 8GB.  If the buffering of whole songs in playlist is turned off, Euphony will only buffer (read into memory) the next song to be played.

 

My NUC7iBNH has 16GB RAM.  Even when ramroot is disabled, Euphony allocates max 8GB for buffering and O/S.  I hope this limitation can be fixed.

Thanks Anwar.

I've been fumbling around for quite some time to make sense of this whole computer music scene. Can get a bit confusing at times. Nonetheless, it's exciting and most enjoyable. 

[Blake]

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/euphony-summus-music-server/

 

[Middy]

4 hours ago, organics1 said:

Thanks Anwar.

I've been fumbling around for quite some time to make sense of this whole computer music scene. Can get a bit confusing at times. Nonetheless, it's exciting and most enjoyable. 

I am the same and i imagine a few are but your quote makes nice a metaphor for the majority of my life so far.... just a bit more depressing 

[Middy]

I am not sure if 0Z ram goes up beyond 8G as its what i have. 4G was at 3.5G 8 G, 5.5G. So i wonder if Euphony was just cashing more data as it was available? 

 

With computers i am one step away from sounding like my gran describe quantum mechanics from what she picked up from day time chat shows.

[bobfa]

 

17 minutes ago, Middy said:

I am not sure if 0Z ram goes up beyond 8G as its what i have. 4G was at 3.5G 8 G, 5.5G. So i wonder if Euphony was just cashing more data as it was available? 

 

With computers i am one step away from sounding like my gran describe quantum mechanics from what she picked up from day time chat shows.

 

4 hours ago, organics1 said:

Thanks Anwar.

I've been fumbling around for quite some time to make sense of this whole computer music scene. Can get a bit confusing at times. Nonetheless, it's exciting and most enjoyable. 

 

I would like to start a thread that helps with this feeling of getting lost in the land of computer audio.  While there is a lot of complexity there are also some very simple, great sounding ways of getting started.  Last year I started some blog posts to describe the basic technology and terminology.

 

 

I have let that languish a bit.  These comments freshen my thinking.  PM me with some suggestions so we keep this about euphony!  I am contemplating how to focus a thread about this. We have to keep it out of the "weeds!"

 

Bob

 

[Chopin75]

19 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

 

Actually, there are two separate options:

1. Buffer next track (the original option)

2. Buffer the whole queue of tracks to be played (the recently introduced further option).

 

If you disable both options, then there is no track buffering, so 4GB RAM should be enough to play any sized file in theory (I haven't ever needed to test this in practice).

 

However, I find it strange that @organics1 has gone to the trouble of getting huge DSD files (presumably for SQ reasons), yet continues to struggle with a paltry 4GB of RAM. And thereby misses out on a variety of SQ improvement options. IMO, attention to server improvements (not just RAM) is more important to ultimate SQ than the file type of the music tracks. I am frequently astonished by what can be achieved with my redbook FLAC files (a lot does also depend on the DAC design for this PCM/DSD question).

So to run DSD256 or DSD512, both I have succeeded,  yes, you do need large  RAM if you want to buffer entire track or album. Without 100% buffer 4GB is usually enough depending on how long a track is (30 min can go up to 2 GB!) There is obvious sonic benefits with DSD256 compared with DSD64, though it may well be that some DSD256 recordings are just better recorded but I have also heard numerous horrible DSD256. So in the end it really depends on the quality of the recording itself. There are many wonderful 24/96 as well as 24/48 too.  

Also I find buffer queue helps but its benefit diminishes if you have only 1-3 tracks. The best way is to listen to as few tracks as possible that you put on the queue. I suppose if you have many small tracks the buffer queue reduce the need for euphony to continue to work to upload and buffer the next track while you are listening. I am no sure if it is worth the trouble to expand the RAM just to accommodate Buffer queue. Certainly you should at least do 100% buffer of a single track. 

[organics1]

On 3/5/2020 at 9:22 AM, TheAttorney said:

 

Actually, there are two separate options:

1. Buffer next track (the original option)

2. Buffer the whole queue of tracks to be played (the recently introduced further option).

 

If you disable both options, then there is no track buffering, so 4GB RAM should be enough to play any sized file in theory (I haven't ever needed to test this in practice).

 

However, I find it strange that @organics1 has gone to the trouble of getting huge DSD files (presumably for SQ reasons), yet continues to struggle with a paltry 4GB of RAM. And thereby misses out on a variety of SQ improvement options. IMO, attention to server improvements (not just RAM) is more important to ultimate SQ than the file type of the music tracks. I am frequently astonished by what can be achieved with my redbook FLAC files (a lot does also depend on the DAC design for this PCM/DSD question).

It may be getting the cart before the horse as far as some obviously "advanced" super duper golden ear high tech audiophiles like you are concerned. But, as per usual in this hyper consumer market things are often advertised as an improvement over something else. Doesn't necessarily have to be so, but that's the way of the world. Why did the world rush to buy so many SUV's when they first began to flood the market, even though they were the most dangerous vehicles ever created, and obviously couldn't leap tall buildings and climb mountains as advertised? Friends and relatives of the deceased are probably still trying to figure that one out.

In the case of the DSD files, I bought a few and discovered that, indeed, they sounded better than the 196/24 files I had. They didn't always move heaven and earth, but when I could compare them to the 196 files I had of the same recordings I almost always hear an improvement. 

The other thing here is that people and their systems evolve. At least average people seem to. Nice to meet someone who got it right the first time. ALL HAIL!

[Chopin75]

49 minutes ago, organics1 said:

It may be getting the cart before the horse as far as some obviously "advanced" super duper golden ear high tech audiophiles like you are concerned. But, as per usual in this hyper consumer market things are often advertised as an improvement over something else. Doesn't necessarily have to be so, but that's the way of the world. Why did the world rush to buy so many SUV's when they first began to flood the market, even though they were the most dangerous vehicles ever created, and obviously couldn't leap tall buildings and climb mountains as advertised? Friends and relatives of the deceased are probably still trying to figure that one out.

In the case of the DSD files, I bought a few and discovered that, indeed, they sounded better than the 196/24 files I had. They didn't always move heaven and earth, but when I could compare them to the 196 files I had of the same recordings I almost always hear an improvement. 

The other thing here is that people and their systems evolve. At least average people seem to. Nice to meet someone who got it right the first time. ALL HAIL!

One should also take into account if the recordings are originally made as DSD with minimal conversion to PCM during editing, and these are usually best. Files converted from PCM may or may not have advantages and it also depends on the DAC too

[organics1]

50 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

One should also take into account if the recordings are originally made as DSD with minimal conversion to PCM during editing, and these are usually best. Files converted from PCM may or may not have advantages and it also depends on the DAC too

Precisely. And I have been hunting down companies that are making original DSD recordings, like Blue Coast Records, and NativeDSD, and work by innovative musician/technicians like David Elias. I was raised in Alabama on R&B, recorded and live. LOTS of it. But I enjoy country and folk equally as well...especially when it can heard through the kind of superb recordings done by the likes of Mr. Elias. 

My DAC plays native DSD files at the highest available rates.

[TheAttorney]

15 hours ago, organics1 said:

The other thing here is that people and their systems evolve. At least average people seem to. Nice to meet someone who got it right the first time. ALL HAIL!

 

As it happens, I still haven't got it completely right, even after a thousand times 🙂

[BCRich]

Hi,

I have been using 2 MacMini’s; one as my Roon Core and the other is hosting HQPlayer Desktop. I have been considering a Sonic Transporter that will do both tasks @ roughly $2800. I did try Euphony a while back but was only able to use Roon with Tidal, I was not able to play my local files as they are attached via Firewire Hard Drives and could not figure out how and did not have the time to dig in. I did like the sound quality. Based on the 2 Mac Mini scenario would I need a Euphony License, an Endpoint License or both? I’m guessing that by having HQP desktop on a separate device I can circumvent the need for HQP Embedded.
Thanks.....Mike

[mikicasellas]

If anybody on this forum is running Roon + Stylus Ep ?

 

Can you please share where you have found your best CPU isolation set up and Min/Max Frequency ?

 

Thanks !

 

 

[mnuno10]

Hi,

 

I purchase a NUC8i5BEH, 1x16GB DDR4 2400mhz memory and and Optane 16GB. The goal is to use Euphony Player to stream Tidal to my Roksan K3 Dac.

Right now I'm on Euphony Trial and I have some doubts:

- I can't install Euphony in my Optane stick, is this because I'm on Euphony Trial? I have to purchase full version to install it in Optane? Or the problem is another? Note that on BIOS update isn't recognize as a Bootable drive, I don't know if it is normal, because it's the first time that I'm using an Optane stick.

- Euphony only recognizes 8GB of memory, but when I go to BIOS it says 16GB. I only have 1 stick of 16GB, it is some kind of bug in Euphony? Somebody with the same problem?

- I'm using my Mac to access Euphony through Chrome browser and "Euphony web app" is draining my battery like crazy. With a tab with "Euphony web app" open the "Activity Monitor" show Google Chrome process consuming lots of CPU as you can see in the attached picture. Somebody with the same problem?

I'm in the last build of Euphony with every update applied.

 

Thank you in advance.

[davide256]

29 minutes ago, mnuno10 said:

Hi,

 

I purchase a NUC8i5BEH, 1x16GB DDR4 2400mhz memory and and Optane 16GB. The goal is to use Euphony Player to stream Tidal to my Roksan K3 Dac.

Right now I'm on Euphony Trial and I have some doubts:

- I can't install Euphony in my Optane stick, is this because I'm on Euphony Trial? I have to purchase full version to install it in Optane? Or the problem is another? Note that on BIOS update isn't recognize as a Bootable drive, I don't know if it is normal, because it's the first time that I'm using an Optane stick.

- Euphony only recognizes 8GB of memory, but when I go to BIOS it says 16GB. I only have 1 stick of 16GB, it is some kind of bug in Euphony? Somebody with the same problem?

- I'm using my Mac to access Euphony through Chrome browser and "Euphony web app" is draining my battery like crazy. With a tab with "Euphony web app" open the "Activity Monitor" show Google Chrome process consuming lots of CPU as you can see in the attached picture. Somebody with the same problem?

I'm in the last build of Euphony with every update applied.

 

Thank you in advance.

1) Euphony image is 8 gb.. you would need to take additional steps within Euphony to expand the music partition to include any extra unused available partition space on a USB drive 2) you have to enable the optane memory in NUC bios as SSD in the SATA controller screen 3) once you have the M.2 drive visible in BIOS you can use the Euphony system transfer option to copy to the Optane drive, it will use all available space when you do a system transfer