davide256 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/4/2019 at 4:50 PM, austinpop said: No, StylusEP interacts with Roon Core by presenting itself as a Squeezebox endpoint. Roon supports Squeezeboxes (see https://kb.roonlabs.com/Squeezebox_Setup), which at a technical level means it supports the SlimProto protocol. This is different from RAAT. Color me dense... my best setup is using LMS on the NAS, had setup a while ago and forgot it was running Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 So far its no contest between LMS on NAS enabled vs disabled... LMS enabled is more transparent audio than disabled. Whatever squeezebox support Roon provides sounds much better if the NAS is LMS enabled. You can easily tell that LMS is feeding Euphony as the endpoint name shows up on the LMS server settings information tab as a recognized player. I did have to do Euphony app restarts after I enabled/disabled LMS at the NAS in order for Roon to find Stylus endpoint. tried running LMS on the same AMD PC as Roon core, didn't work, couldn't find Stylus endpoint. tried Stylus player as Squeezebox player for NAS but that option wasn't recognized by LMS, believe Euphony Stylus player network transport is SMB based on past testing. Would be nice if Euphony integrated Stylus player with Stylus EP squeezebox support Worked with iPeng controller also but that was a bit quirky for buffering and I distrust a controller that sports digital volume control... I didn't find it as good as Roon core/controller Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 2 hours ago, davide256 said: So far its no contest between LMS on NAS enabled vs disabled... LMS enabled is more transparent audio than disabled. Whatever squeezebox support Roon provides sounds much better if the NAS is LMS enabled. You can easily tell that LMS is feeding Euphony as the endpoint name shows up on the LMS server settings information tab as a recognized player. I did have to do Euphony app restarts after I enabled/disabled LMS at the NAS in order for Roon to find Stylus endpoint. tried running LMS on the same AMD PC as Roon core, didn't work, couldn't find Stylus endpoint. tried Stylus player as Squeezebox player for NAS but that option wasn't recognized by LMS, believe Euphony Stylus player network transport is SMB based on past testing. Would be nice if Euphony integrated Stylus player with Stylus EP squeezebox support Worked with iPeng controller also but that was a bit quirky for buffering and I distrust a controller that sports digital volume control... I didn't find it as good as Roon core/controller Dave, I have found that in order to test like this I had to shutdown the Roon server when running LMS as it conflicts on the network somehow. Roon did warn about this when you enable squeezelite compatibility. It slows the testing down a lot! I have not tried your configuration. it is interesting. My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 hours ago, bobfa said: Dave, I have found that in order to test like this I had to shutdown the Roon server when running LMS as it conflicts on the network somehow. Roon did warn about this when you enable squeezelite compatibility. It slows the testing down a lot! I have not tried your configuration. it is interesting. Seems to work as long as LMS and Roon core are physically different servers, so more of an application conflict than a network conflict Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Lukasluis Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 8 hours ago, davide256 said: So far its no contest between LMS on NAS enabled vs disabled... LMS enabled is more transparent audio than disabled. Whatever squeezebox support Roon provides sounds much better if the NAS is LMS enabled. You can easily tell that LMS is feeding Euphony as the endpoint name shows up on the LMS server settings information tab as a recognized player. I did have to do Euphony app restarts after I enabled/disabled LMS at the NAS in order for Roon to find Stylus endpoint. tried running LMS on the same AMD PC as Roon core, didn't work, couldn't find Stylus endpoint. tried Stylus player as Squeezebox player for NAS but that option wasn't recognized by LMS, believe Euphony Stylus player network transport is SMB based on past testing. Would be nice if Euphony integrated Stylus player with Stylus EP squeezebox support Worked with iPeng controller also but that was a bit quirky for buffering and I distrust a controller that sports digital volume control... I didn't find it as good as Roon core/controller Dave, If I understand you correctly, you just enabled LMS on the NAS but still using Roon Core on a separate machine as you music server and you music files are stired in the NAS where LMS is enabled? Please educate me. Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Lukasluis said: Dave, If I understand you correctly, you just enabled LMS on the NAS but still using Roon Core on a separate machine as you music server and you music files are stired in the NAS where LMS is enabled? Please educate me. Correct. Roon core with squeezelite enabled on AMD PC pointing to NAS music directory for library DS214play NAS with LMS and Media Player enabled i7NUC with Stylus endpoint enabled browser screenshot of LMS server information showing Stylus EP as Squeezelite endpoint Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Lukasluis Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 hours ago, davide256 said: Correct. Roon core with squeezelite enabled on AMD PC pointing to NAS music directory for library DS214play NAS with LMS and Media Player enabled i7NUC with Stylus endpoint enabled browser screenshot of LMS server information showing Stylus EP as Squeezelite endpoint Thanks. Listening to it now. The way I ascertain that it is indeed passing thru the LMS is by adjusting the volume control in LMS and noticing the change in loudness. I set it to Max volume after that. Link to comment
aangen Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I am confused. I have LMS running on another computer on my network. That computer has a copy of the same audio database that also lives on my Euphony PTS server via an internal SSD drive. I have Euphony running Roon Core + StylusEP. So what do I do to listen the way you are suggesting. I want to use the Roon interface but I want to listen to the Logitech Music Server? I don’t get it. I probably will seconds after I save this message. Switch to Roon Core + Squeezelite mode for a step up in sound quality? I can still use Roon but it sounds better than StylusEP mode? Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 hours ago, aangen said: I am confused. I have LMS running on another computer on my network. That computer has a copy of the same audio database that also lives on my Euphony PTS server via an internal SSD drive. I have Euphony running Roon Core + StylusEP. So what do I do to listen the way you are suggesting. I want to use the Roon interface but I want to listen to the Logitech Music Server? I don’t get it. I probably will seconds after I save this message. Switch to Roon Core + Squeezelite mode for a step up in sound quality? I can still use Roon but it sounds better than StylusEP mode? I've not gotten the Squeezelite mode to work vs running Stylus EP. And found the [Rooncore/Stylus EP] + [LMS enabled NAS] option not to sound as good as [Euphony/Rooncore +local HD]. The option I preferred is actually a 3 "computer" solution (1) squeezelite enabled Rooncore server (2) LMS enabled NAS (3) Stylus endpoint Setup this way, LMS provides the squeezelite transport to the endpoint, Rooncore is providing library functions and playback control over LMS Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 hours ago, davide256 said: I've not gotten the Squeezelite mode to work vs running Stylus EP. And found the [Rooncore/Stylus EP] + [LMS enabled NAS] option not to sound as good as [Euphony/Rooncore +local HD]. The option I preferred is actually a 3 "computer" solution (1) squeezelite enabled Rooncore server (2) LMS enabled NAS (3) Stylus endpoint Setup this way, LMS provides the squeezelite transport to the endpoint, Rooncore is providing library functions and playback control over LMS I am really confused. You do not need LMS in this at all. My Audio Systems Link to comment
austinpop Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Yes, I am confused too. When running StylusEP on the endpoint, it is behaving like a Squeezebox. Now you need a music server. This can either be LMS OR Roon Core (with Squeezebox support enabled). Roon Core gets music files from the NAS over SMB file sharing. Roon Core does not need LMS to be running on the NAS. This is what's confusing to me. My Audio Setup Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, davide256 said: I've not gotten the Squeezelite mode to work vs running Stylus EP. And found the [Rooncore/Stylus EP] + [LMS enabled NAS] option not to sound as good as [Euphony/Rooncore +local HD]. The option I preferred is actually a 3 "computer" solution (1) squeezelite enabled Rooncore server (2) LMS enabled NAS (3) Stylus endpoint Setup this way, LMS provides the squeezelite transport to the endpoint, Rooncore is providing library functions and playback control over LMS I am slightly confused. Why is LMS even needed. Roon does not need LMS. My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 30 minutes ago, austinpop said: Yes, I am confused too. When running StylusEP on the endpoint, it is behaving like a Squeezebox. Now you need a music server. This can either be LMS OR Roon Core (with Squeezebox support enabled). Roon Core gets music files from the NAS over SMB file sharing. Roon Core does not need LMS to be running on the NAS. This is what's confusing to me. All I know is that LMS when enabled shows that it is sending data to Stylus EP and that sound degrades when LMS is disabled at NAS Roon core in a 3 box setup cannot directly "send" music. The music resides on the NAS. Beginning to wonder how Roon can send squeezelite data if that capability is not resident on the NAS... buffer stream at core server then resend to endpoint using Squeezelite protocol? Roon used to advise that RAAT didn't apply to music sent from NAS, media had to be on the Roon core server and transmitted to Roon endpoint. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, davide256 said: All I know is that LMS when enabled shows that it is sending data to Stylus EP and that sound degrades when LMS is disabled at NAS Roon core in a 3 box setup cannot directly "send" music. The music resides on the NAS. Beginning to wonder how Roon can send squeezelite data if that capability is not resident on the NAS... buffer stream at core server then resend to endpoint using Squeezelite protocol? Roon used to advise that RAAT didn't apply to music sent from NAS, media had to be on the Roon core server and transmitted to Roon endpoint. What software are you using to “play your music?” When using Roon there is no need for LMS.:https://roonlabs.com/howroonworks.html In an LMS system there is the server and endpoints. You can use a web browser to control LMS. My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, bobfa said: What software are you using to “play your music?” When using Roon there is no need for LMS.:https://roonlabs.com/howroonworks.html In an LMS system there is the server and endpoints. You can use a web browser to control LMS. Roon core is controlling squeezelite play from the NAS. LMS on NAS in my system makes streaming Squeezelite to Stylus endpoint sound better There are lots of thing in audio we don't need to do but choose to do when it sounds better. So simple to try if you have an LMS supporting NAS @Cebolla you may have some thoughts on this discussion. Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Dave, Still does not make any sense to me. Roon gets the files from the NAS via a network share. It then sends those files to the endpoint using either RAAT or Squeezelite protocols. You control Roon with their Roon Controller application. LMS cannot be in the middle of this. What are you actually using to select music and play it? A web browser? Somewhere there is confusion. Bob My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, bobfa said: Dave, Still does not make any sense to me. Roon gets the files from the NAS via a network share. It then sends those files to the endpoint using either RAAT or Squeezelite protocols. You control Roon with their Roon Controller application. LMS cannot be in the middle of this. What are you actually using to select music and play it? A web browser? Somewhere there is confusion. Bob Network shares have to do with access permission, read/write privileges. Streaming is an application protocol at a layer above network file access. What I'm doing is similar to what I used to do with UPNP and microRendu... control point (squeezelite enabled Roon core), media server (LMS), renderer endpoint (Stylus endpoint) Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Dave, This picture illustrates one of my configurations. The Roon Core is running on the NUC in my basement. I am using an Allo USBridge Sig running MoOde OS setup as Squeezelite renderer or in Roon parlance "Output". I control my music playback with an Apple iPad running the Roon Controller App. Bob My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, bobfa said: Dave, This picture illustrates one of my configurations. The Roon Core is running on the NUC in my basement. I am using an Allo USBridge Sig running MoOde OS setup as Squeezelite renderer or in Roon parlance "Output". I control my music playback with an Apple iPad running the Roon Controller App. Bob right, your storage is local to core vs remote NAS. Can't run LMS on same machine as Roon core Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Dave, I PMed you, give me a call if you would like.. bob My Audio Systems Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, davide256 said: right, your storage is local to core vs remote NAS. Can't run LMS on same machine as Roon core You are correct. That is not what I am talking about. Roon and LMS do not work together. They cannot talk to each other. I am still confused. Help me understand please! What application on what device do you use to control playback? My Audio Systems Link to comment
jcn3 Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 hours ago, davide256 said: right, your storage is local to core vs remote NAS. Can't run LMS on same machine as Roon core i'm also confused. i run roon rock on a nuc and store music on my nas. i can run squeezelite on my endpoint and play music without running lms anywhere. (1) holo audio red (hqp naa) > chord dave > luxman cl-38uc/mq-88uc > kef reference 1 (2) simaudio moon mind 2 > chord qutest > luxman sq-n150 > monitor audio gold gx100 Link to comment
Popular Post the_bat Posted December 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 13, 2019 I'm also trying to understand. The two possibilities that I'm aware of are shown below. When Roon core is talking to a Squeezelite endpoint it's emulating a LMS/Squeeze server, but it can be controlled from the Roon remote. Whether it's talking to a Squeezelite or RoonBridge endpoint it's using the same SMB protocols to access files on the NAS and pulling them over the network. When you're accessing files on the NAS through the LMS server on the NAS you're using a web browser, or an app like Peng to control it. There isn't anything in the Roon server that will talk to an LMS server. Your LMS server on the NAS may have detected the Squeezelite server, which is why it shows there, but it's not being used if you're using the Roon Remote for control. Cebolla, austinpop and jcn3 1 2 Link to comment
austinpop Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, the_bat said: I'm also trying to understand. The two possibilities that I'm aware of are shown below. When Roon core is talking to a Squeezelite endpoint it's emulating a LMS/Squeeze server, but it can be controlled from the Roon remote. Whether it's talking to a Squeezelite or RoonBridge endpoint it's using the same SMB protocols to access files on the NAS and pulling them over the network. When you're accessing files on the NAS through the LMS server on the NAS you're using a web browser, or an app like Peng to control it. There isn't anything in the Roon server that will talk to an LMS server. Your LMS server on the NAS may have detected the Squeezelite server, which is why it shows there, but it's not being used if you're using the Roon Remote for control. Excellent diagram, and exactly matches my understanding. My Audio Setup Link to comment
bobfa Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, austinpop said: Excellent diagram, and exactly matches my understanding. Dave, So the two diagrams above show how these systems work. Each one has to be operated from some sort of control point application. That is why I was asking for that before. If you are using the Roon controller then the bottom section is your music and control path. My Audio Systems Link to comment
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