Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[Dev]

13 hours ago, austinpop said:

A couple of excellent features are coming to Euphony/Stylus. One that I have been beta testing is a UI option in the Queue view to buffer all tracks in the queue from the current track on. This makes a noticeable impact on SQ, as you can wait for all tracks to be in RAM before playing the list.

 

The other feature that looks promising is the ability to direct Stylus output to a UPnP renderer. I wish I had had this when I had the dCS Bartók review unit.

 

i gather the Euphony folk are busy working on the launch of a new product - their Essentia server, but no details are known yet.

 

Wow, excellent. I wish all these neat SQ enablers were available with Roon. So are you going straight to the DAC' USB with Stylus or do you have in-between Stylus endpoint ?

[bobfa]

15 hours ago, austinpop said:

A couple of excellent features are coming to Euphony/Stylus. One that I have been beta testing is a UI option in the Queue view to buffer all tracks in the queue from the current track on. This makes a noticeable impact on SQ, as you can wait for all tracks to be in RAM before playing the list.

 

The other feature that looks promising is the ability to direct Stylus output to a UPnP renderer. I wish I had had this when I had the dCS Bartók review unit.

 

i gather the Euphony folk are busy working on the launch of a new product - their Essentia server, but no details are known yet.

Rajiv,

 

OH I needed that (still need) the UPnP render stuff for my Allo USBridge Sig endpoints.  

 

Thanks!  

[austinpop]

15 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

I hope this feature will be extended to Tidal tracks. 

 

I've asked about this and was told that Euphony are very mindful of preserving copyright and preventing piracy of streamed content. So while there is still RAM buffering of Tidal and Qobuz streams, you can't pre-buffer an entire queue of tracks as you can with local content. Still, in my experience, with the per-track buffering as implemented, the SQ of an identical track on Qobuz is about as close to local as I have ever achieved in my system.

[austinpop]

14 hours ago, flkin said:

It will be interesting to see whether the new EtherRegen will have any effect as the music is buffered 100% in such an Euphony setup. 

 

Even with 100% pre-buffering, the switch still has an effect - at least with the SOtM. 

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, bobfa said:

Rajiv,

 

OH I needed that (still need) the UPnP render stuff for my Allo USBridge Sig endpoints.  

 

Thanks!  

 

I hear you. Nice review!

[Holzohr]

On 11/25/2019 at 5:10 AM, austinpop said:

The other feature that looks promising is the ability to direct Stylus output to a UPnP renderer.

 

That's interesting! I am just playing with JPLAY Femto on my Windows machine. Stylus plus JPLAY Femto as renderer that could be a winning team.

[aangen]

People on a forum I visit are comparing the sound of their systems when using Roon 1.7 and a system driven by JRiver. Some believe the JRiver setup sounds noticeably better. Seeing as how Euphony makes it so easy to switch from a Roon Stylus mode to a Squeezebox setup that can easily be used with JRiver, I am now listening to that setup. I love what I hear with the Roon setup but this is sounding a bit better.

 

I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on this.

[davide256]

16 hours ago, aangen said:

People on a forum I visit are comparing the sound of their systems when using Roon 1.7 and a system driven by JRiver. Some believe the JRiver setup sounds noticeably better. Seeing as how Euphony makes it so easy to switch from a Roon Stylus mode to a Squeezebox setup that can easily be used with JRiver, I am now listening to that setup. I love what I hear with the Roon setup but this is sounding a bit better.

 

I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on this.

since you don't list a system, hard to know what you are actually hearing as a difference. Weak gear in the audio chain can easily send you down a false path... I've been

there.

[aangen]

Hi David, I am not looking for advice about my system, I'm curious if others have compared listening to music via Roon vs. say, JRiver on their systems. After extended listening I have decided there does not appear to be a large difference on mine.

[Lukasluis]

Has anyone compared the sound signatures of Stylus and Roon 1.7 in a single-box  Euphony machine? I find that I like Stylus for Jazz and Classical music and prefer Roon for Rock. I noticed an improvement with Roon after upgrading to 1.7

[davide256]

On 12/3/2019 at 12:56 AM, Lukasluis said:

Has anyone compared the sound signatures of Stylus and Roon 1.7 in a single-box  Euphony machine? I find that I like Stylus for Jazz and Classical music and prefer Roon for Rock. I noticed an improvement with Roon after upgrading to 1.7

Yes... Roon has a fuzzy quality compared to Stylus in my 1 box system.

 

Have been going back and forth lately between the two trying to get Roon to sound better.  From best to worse

 

1. WIn/Roon server on AMD PC-- media on Synology NAS -- i7NUC as Stylus endpoint

2. Euphony/i7NUC as Roonserver/endpoint with local HD

3. Euphony/i7NUC as Roonserver/endpoint -- media on Synology NAS

4.Win/Roonserver on AMD PC with local HD--i7NUC as stylus endpoint

 

this surprised me as my best sound with Roon eliminates RAAT. Using #1, its a tossup between Roon and Stylus, Stylus has better transients but Roon doesn't accentuate

irritants on CD quality recordings.

 

All  comparisons done in normal Stylus mode, I find loading to RAM creates treble irritants and accentuates odd order harmonics.

[jcn3]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

Yes... Roon has a fuzzy quality compared to Stylus in my 1 box system.

 

Have been going back and forth lately between the two trying to get Roon to sound better.  From best to worse

 

1. WIn/Roon server on AMD PC-- media on Synology NAS -- i7NUC as Stylus endpoint

2. Euphony/i7NUC as Roonserver/endpoint with local HD

3. Euphony/i7NUC as Roonserver/endpoint -- media on Synology NAS

4.Win/Roonserver on AMD PC with local HD--i7NUC as stylus endpoint

 

this surprised me as my best sound with Roon eliminates RAAT. Using #1, its a tossup between Roon and Stylus, Stylus has better transients but Roon doesn't accentuate

irritants on CD quality recordings.

 

All  comparisons done in normal Stylus mode, I find loading to RAM creates treble irritants and accentuates odd order harmonics.

 

How does #1 eliminate RAAT?  Doesn't Stylus set up as a Roon endpoint mean that Roon server uses RAAT to feed the Stylus endpoint?  Just asking 'cause I don't know . . . .

[austinpop]

59 minutes ago, jcn3 said:

 

How does #1 eliminate RAAT?  Doesn't Stylus set up as a Roon endpoint mean that Roon server uses RAAT to feed the Stylus endpoint?  Just asking 'cause I don't know . . . .

 

No, StylusEP interacts with Roon Core by presenting itself as a Squeezebox endpoint. Roon supports Squeezeboxes (see https://kb.roonlabs.com/Squeezebox_Setup), which at a technical level means it supports the SlimProto protocol. This is different from RAAT.

[jcn3]

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

No, StylusEP interacts with Roon Core by presenting itself as a Squeezebox endpoint. Roon supports Squeezeboxes (see https://kb.roonlabs.com/Squeezebox_Setup), which at a technical level means it supports the SlimProto protocol. This is different from RAAT.

 

Ah, that explains it!

[davide256]

Has anyone used their Euphony NUC as a bluetooth connection for headphones? I have bluetooth disabled, wondering if (a) it works with Euphony (b) if

it is worthwhile with a good set of headphones. The idea of using a good wireless headphone like the Ananda BT in any room of the house with phone as Roon controller

is very attractive.

[frederick184]

Last week I purchased a Euphony server and endpoint license.  My system had been running a current version of Audiolinux on both machines.  My server is based around an Asus B450m motherboard with Ryzen 7 2700 processor and 16GB of Apacer ECC ram.  Also on board is an Optane 900P 280GB HDD.  My music files are stored in an external Startech USB 3.1 enclosure with a Western Digital Black 2TB 3.5" HDD.  The server is powered from an HDPLEX 200w PSU via an HDPLEX 400w DC-ATX converter.  The Startech enclosure is powered from the HDPLEX 200W PSU via an MPAUDIO LT3045 based PSU set for 15v in and 12v out.  Connection from server to endpoint is via wifi.  

 

The endpoint is an i717DNBE NUC powered by a Paul Hynes SR4-19.  From there the signal goes to an Uptone ISORegen powered by an LPS 1.2, then into a Soekris 1321 DAC powered by an LPS 1.2 and an Alexei LT3045 based PSU set for 7v in and 5v out.  Then it goes direct to my amp.  First issue - I've read that the Euphony software volume control kills the sound.  As I have no preamp, I'm stuck with using either the software volume control or using the digital volume control on my DAC (or buy a preamp).

 

When I was using AL I was using the Roon DSP volume control and never had any issues.  With Euphony, I can't use Roon right now as there is an issue with my account that Roon are working on, so I'm using Stylus on the server and StylusEP on the endpoint.  Ramroot is configured on both devices.  Compared to my AL setup it sounds recessed and somewhat harsh.  I haven't played with features such as CPU isolation and CPU frequency yet.  CPU isolation I understand and will play around with.  CPU frequency I am a bit of a novice with and could use some guidance here.  

 

Thoughts?

 

Colin

[jcn3]

On 12/4/2019 at 12:50 PM, davide256 said:

Have been going back and forth lately between the two trying to get Roon to sound better.  From best to worse

 

1. WIn/Roon server on AMD PC-- media on Synology NAS -- i7NUC as Stylus endpoint

2. Euphony/i7NUC as Roonserver/endpoint with local HD

3. Euphony/i7NUC as Roonserver/endpoint -- media on Synology NAS

4.Win/Roonserver on AMD PC with local HD--i7NUC as stylus endpoint

 

this surprised me as my best sound with Roon eliminates RAAT. Using #1, its a tossup between Roon and Stylus, Stylus has better transients but Roon doesn't accentuate

irritants on CD quality recordings.

 

 

i just wanted to loop back -- based on your testing, using roon rock on my nuc8i5 server, i tried using AL with squeezelite on my endpoint (i don't have euphony).  i found that squeezelite sounded much better than roon bridge -- roon bridge seemed overly muted/reserved.  squeezelite provided the life and energy that i'm looking for.

 

so with all of the testing and comparisons with AL and euphony, i wonder if it was simply RAAT that creating the difference in sound.

[Lukasluis]

27 minutes ago, jcn3 said:

 

i just wanted to loop back -- based on your testing, using roon rock on my nuc8i5 server, i tried using AL with squeezelite on my endpoint (i don't have euphony).  i found that squeezelite sounded much better than roon bridge -- roon bridge seemed overly muted/reserved.  squeezelite provided the life and energy that i'm looking for.

 

so with all of the testing and comparisons with AL and euphony, i wonder if it was simply RAAT that creating the difference in sound.

I have the same config for my headphone rig, squeezelite is a little bit better/clearer for music up to 24/96. Roon endpoint is much better for higher res and DSD format. It looks like downsampling is more detrimental to SQ than buffering in memory?

[jcn3]

2 minutes ago, Lukasluis said:

I have the same config for my headphone rig, squeezelite is a little bit better/clearer for music up to 24/96. Roon endpoint is much better for higher res and DSD format. It looks like downsampling is more detrimental to SQ than buffering in memory?

 

i actually didn't do my comparison using higher res files -- i was using 16/44 and 24/96 so there wasn't any up or down sampling.  

 

i don't understand why the higher bit rate/depth files sounded better with roon bridge.  with squeezelite, are you saying you were getting too much clarity (making it sound brittle, maybe?) with higher res files?

[bobfa]

Over time I have found that running either Stylus stand alone or Stylus EP has sounded better than running RAAT.  For both of my systems the difference has been clear in favor.  As of late I have been testing a different endpoint MoOde OS. 6.4  on an Allo USBridge Sig.  I am finding greatly improved sound quality, even my wife is commenting on it and she never does that.

 

When I run a Roon Server on either ROCK or Euphony to the Squeezelite renderer there is a  Sound Quality improvement. The system is unstable and music does not start right every time I make a change. 

 

I am mostly using Audirvana+ to UPnP .   I hope to test Euphony to UPnP when it gets further along.

 

 

 

 

[Lukasluis]

1 hour ago, jcn3 said:

 

i actually didn't do my comparison using higher res files -- i was using 16/44 and 24/96 so there wasn't any up or down sampling.  

 

i don't understand why the higher bit rate/depth files sounded better with roon bridge.  with squeezelite, are you saying you were getting too much clarity (making it sound brittle, maybe?) with higher res files?

I find the opposite, downsampling DSD tracks to Squeezelite 24/96 sounds dead/uninteresting as compared to playing them natively to Roon endpoint.

[Lukasluis]

17 minutes ago, bobfa said:

Over time I have found that running either Stylus stand alone or Stylus EP has sounded better than running RAAT.  For both of my systems the difference has been clear in favor.  As of late I have been testing a different endpoint MoOde OS. 6.4  on an Allo USBridge Sig.  I am finding greatly improved sound quality, even my wife is commenting on it and she never does that.

 

When I run a Roon Server on either ROCK or Euphony to the Squeezelite renderer there is a  Sound Quality improvement. The system is unstable and music does not start right every time I make a change. 

 

I am mostly using Audirvana+ to UPnP .   I hope to test Euphony to UPnP when it gets further along.

 

 

 

 

Eagerly-awaiting for your testing. Any idea when the new version of Euphony comes out?

[Chopin75]

2 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

I have the same config for my headphone rig, squeezelite is a little bit better/clearer for music up to 24/96. Roon endpoint is much better for higher res and DSD format. It looks like downsampling is more detrimental to SQ than buffering in memory?

OK, please clarify your question. Why is it surprising downsampling  is worse? Isn't that expected. In general hi Res sounds better. However, upsampling a low res file may not improve things, which can depend on the HW, SW and the quality of the recording. 

I have a bunch of awful DSD256 (like the one I am listening now, which I end up using to test how great a system can be in minimizing the poor quality). A great recording in 16 bit can sound much better than an awful DSD256.  

[Lukasluis]

10 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

OK, please clarify your question. Why is it surprising downsampling  is worse? Isn't that expected. In general hi Res sounds better. However, upsampling a low res file may not improve things, which can depend on the HW, SW and the quality of the recording. 

I have a bunch of awful DSD256 (like the one I am listening now, which I end up using to test how great a system can be in minimizing the poor quality). A great recording in 16 bit can sound much better than an awful DSD256.  

If you too find that downsampling sounds worse than native then we agree. In my use case, where I have multi-format music collection I find that switching my endpoint’s config every time the music format changes is not sane thus I found the compromise in Roon endpoint. DSD vs 16 bit is irrelevant to me as I only retain one copy of each album in my collection. Yes, I deleted a bunch of crap DSD albums too.

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, bobfa said:

Over time I have found that running either Stylus stand alone or Stylus EP has sounded better than running RAAT.  For both of my systems the difference has been clear in favor.  As of late I have been testing a different endpoint MoOde OS. 6.4  on an Allo USBridge Sig.  I am finding greatly improved sound quality, even my wife is commenting on it and she never does that.

 

When I run a Roon Server on either ROCK or Euphony to the Squeezelite renderer there is a  Sound Quality improvement. The system is unstable and music does not start right every time I make a change. 

 

I am mostly using Audirvana+ to UPnP .   I hope to test Euphony to UPnP when it gets further along.

 

 

 

 

I think I found part of my problem. I have two MoOde devices running Squeezelite  and they hade the same name on the network.  I have fixed that and things are a lot better.