Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[Holzohr]

7 minutes ago, FelipeRolim said:

 

In both cases, taking care to have the JCAT USB Card FEMTO as output.

 

I start to believe that Euphony is rather something for systems without such PCIe cards. The irqs of the mainboard USB ports get realtime priority by default (the same in Audiolinux). These PCIe cards (in my case a Matrix Element H) use a different irq without rt priority. The good thing is it's possible to adjust the rtirq.conf.

Btw, I had a Windows Server 2019 system in core mode before (on my former computer) and have changed to Euphony but I am curious if my Matrix Element H will bring more benefit in a Windows system. I will give it a try on weekend.

[austinpop]

20 minutes ago, FelipeRolim said:

 

Thanks for the contribution, Nenon. I believe my subscription is out of date. I tried Euphony on both computers I have, the Core i3-8100T, with 16GB DDR4 RAM, and the i7-4785T and 16GB DDR3 RAM. In both cases, taking care to have the JCAT USB Card FEMTO as output. Both computers, when running Windows, work much better with TurboBoost turned off (i3 doesn't), just like Hyper-Threading, C-States, and other elements. I did not make any changes to the BIOS, but it was interesting to comment on it. I'm still in the 30 day trial, and I will try to get as much Euphony as possible. It will have to evolve a lot to overcome Windows. Thanks for saying, I will try it on the weekend.

 

 

Thanks for your comments. As I said: (i) loaded the operating system into RAM, (ii) set the buffering of songs to RAM, and (iii) used Stylus mode. I still have some things to try, so tips like Nenon's are very welcome. I'm going to experiment with changing the processor clock this weekend, and reactivate some features of the motherboard and processors.

 

Here are some more tuning ideas. Your mileage may vary.

1. I configure my CPUs to be "wide open". This means HT on, Turbo on. Not everyone agrees, but something to try
2. I then cap the max frequency field if I feel the onset of harshness. This is very dependent on the quality of the PSU. With good PSUs this step is unnecessary. In my case, with an HDPlex 800 Linear PSU, I found 3.2GHz (the peak is 4.2 GHz) to sound best. 4.2 is more dynamic, but does have a bit more harshness to it.
3. I notice you have an Ayre DAC. I'd set the fields like this:
   
4. Try core isolation. The Stylus player has two processes: stylus is the web app, and gstp is the player that interacts with the USB connected DAC via ALSA.
   

[Chopin75]

Well at least now we Euphonians have a goal to beat Windows ! (personal grudge against Bill gates, hehe).  I suspect it is possible that there needs to be a match between the SW and HW for each system. I am not doubting windows based system and there has been others who have shown Win to be just as good or better. In the past it makes sense for those already using windows to continue to work with it. For me a Mac user has nothing to do with Windows, so a fresh new Linux based system, easy to use, makes sense. Besides, euphony will continue to improve and reduce any bugs etc. For windows, you are on your own. I still believe that euphony has a great future, esp with the continuous development they have and customer service is excellent.  

Also I suggest when testing the win vs euphony,  that one should mention what music files they use, e.g PCM 24/96, active upsampling  or not,  DSD256, DSD512, DXD etc.... these affect the sound a lot, as a system that plays 24/96 well may suck at DXD/DSD256 simply SuperHIRES requires more CPU and gets noisy....  I would avoid sample conversion e.g PCM-->DSD and vice versa. this adds more factors involved. 

[Nenon]

Okay, let me try to to stick to the "Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues" topic here. 

 

The most important setting in Euphony is to make sure software volume control is not used. That is the only setting that would really ruin the sound of Euphony. I see that @FelipeRolim has done that, and I assume @Nsxturbo has done it too. 

Improvements you can make are:

- Buffer before play - 100%

- Enable ramroot

- Use cache

- Set realtime priority to some processes / CPU Isolation

There is not much you can screw up in Euphony / Stylus, really. Tweaking your BIOS to get the best of Euphony might be a little different, though. If you have a really good power supply, I find Euphony sounding best when you tweak the BIOS for best performance - enable hyperthreading, don't limit the power consumption, enable turbo boost, don't limit the CPU frequency, etc. That would bring more dynamics. The problem is if your power supply is not  really good, enabling all these settings can have the opposite effect. The best solution would be the fastest hardware you can get with the best power supply you can afford. I am currently using an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X powered by a really good 12V / 20A LPS, and everything else powered by 5 Sean Jacobs DC3 rails - 3 for the ATX connector, one for the JCAT NIC, and one for the PinkFaun I2S card with ultraOCXO clock. 

If you do all that and you still prefer Windows over Euphony, by all means enjoy the Windows OS and please share with us, so we can try too. 

[bobfa]

6 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Okay, let me try to to stick to the "Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues" topic here. 

 

The most important setting in Euphony is to make sure software volume control is not used. That is the only setting that would really ruin the sound of Euphony. I see that @FelipeRolim has done that, and I assume @Nsxturbo has done it too. 

Improvements you can make are:

- Buffer before play - 100%

- Enable ramroot

- Use cache

- Set realtime priority to some processes / CPU Isolation

There is not much you can screw up in Euphony / Stylus, really. Tweaking your BIOS to get the best of Euphony might be a little different, though. If you have a really good power supply, I find Euphony sounding best when you tweak the BIOS for best performance - enable hyperthreading, don't limit the power consumption, enable turbo boost, don't limit the CPU frequency, etc. That would bring more dynamics. The problem is if your power supply is not  really good, enabling all these settings can have the opposite effect. The best solution would be the fastest hardware you can get with the best power supply you can afford. I am currently using an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X powered by a really good 12V / 20A LPS, and everything else powered by 5 Sean Jacobs DC3 rails - 3 for the ATX connector, one for the JCAT NIC, and one for the PinkFaun I2S card with ultraOCXO clock. 

If you do all that and you still prefer Windows over Euphony, by all means enjoy the Windows OS and please share with us, so we can try too. 

What have you found out about the CPU isolation, etc?  I have not tried that.  I will have to revisit my BIOS Settings as I do not remember where I left things.

[Nenon]

3 minutes ago, bobfa said:

What have you found out about the CPU isolation, etc?  I have not tried that.  I will have to revisit my BIOS Settings as I do not remember where I left things.

 

Look at the screenshot @austinpop posted above. Mine are very similar, minus Roon and adjusted for 16 cores. Not at my house right now but I can post a screenshot later if you want to see it. 

[austinpop]

6 minutes ago, bobfa said:

What have you found out about the CPU isolation, etc?  I have not tried that.  I will have to revisit my BIOS Settings as I do not remember where I left things.

 

Bob, search back on this thread for my earlier posts on isolation as well...

[FelipeRolim]

On my computers (using JPLAY FEMTO dual-PC configuration, and also set up Sylus in "Server" and "End Point" modes), I have six power supplies specifically tuned for the best sound: two for processors (sigma11 with special components), two for motherboards, one for SSD (ldovr single rail) and one for JCAT USB Card FEMTO (ldovr single rail). I have two more ldovr for the JCAT Net Card FEMTO, but I haven't bought them yet. So, from what I've already set up and what you're saying, without changing my current hardware to a more powerful, I can only set the processor core assignments/frequencies and promote the BIOS adjustments. That's right?

 

If that's all, I think I should expect a miracle of these changes, because overcoming today's Windows will be very difficult.

 

51 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

I see , thanks! Now just to confirm, are you using USB Stick to load the OS to RAM ? This reminds me that I am not sure if SSD makes a big difference with RAMroot (I have not tried RAMroot) but per these guys here, optane + RAMroot works best. 

 

Once the operating system is loaded into RAM, there's no further use on the USB stick. However, just like any other USB stick, I realize that external USB connections that are not exclusively for PC to DAC communication detract from the sound quality. So, my computers have only network connections (I tried to disconnect but never heard any difference, I believe by the isolation between the network and PCI-Express controllers of the USB card) and the DAC's USB connection. There's no mouse, keyboard, monitor and any other gadget, as they all, in my view, impair the quality of the audio. I also don't use moving parts, such as hard drives or coolers, as they inject noise into the circuit, either by conduction (cables) or by dispersion (air).

[rickca]

25 minutes ago, Nenon said:

I am currently using an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X powered by a really good 12V / 20A LPS

What is this 12V/20A LPS and where did you get it?

[Nenon]

3 minutes ago, rickca said:

What is this 12V/20A LPS and where did you get it?

 

Ugh, as soon as I posted this I figured someone would ask and realized I should have been more quiet about it... It's my new DIY creation with a lot of help from a famous designer. It's big, heavy, powerful, and it seems as good as anything else I have tried so far. The problem is, I can't share details as this may turn into a commercial product one day. Sorry. I have tried to share every important experience with the community here, but that's the one thing that I can't discuss publicly yet. 

[rickca]

9 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Ugh, as soon as I posted this I figured someone would ask and realized I should have been more quiet about it

Well, at least you know I read your posts carefully.  I really appreciate your contribution to this forum.

[Nenon]

21 minutes ago, FelipeRolim said:

On my computers (using JPLAY FEMTO dual-PC configuration, and also set up Sylus in "Server" and "End Point" modes), I have six power supplies specifically tuned for the best sound: two for processors (sigma11 with special components), two for motherboards, one for SSD (ldovr single rail) and one for JCAT USB Card FEMTO (ldovr single rail). I have two more ldovr for the JCAT Net Card FEMTO, but I haven't bought them yet. So, from what I've already set up and what you're saying, without changing my current hardware to a more powerful, I can only set the processor core assignments/frequencies and promote the BIOS adjustments. That's right?

 

If that's all, I think I should expect a miracle of these changes, because overcoming today's Windows will be very difficult.

 

Yep, remove any hardware resource limits and check if it is an improvement or not. A more powerful CPU would probably help more, but do what you can with your current hardware. I don't expect a miracle, but you may get an idea of how different it is tweaking for Euphony vs. tweaking for Windows. Keep us posted. 

[Chopin75]

2 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

I loaded Euphony into RAM, which is available on the trial version and of course I used 100% buffer. not sure why loading to RAM from Optane would make a difference?

The trial version and using USB stick can both negatively affect sound, surely without Ramroot but even with Ramroot there is still processing in the USB stick, unless u do the complete app loading into Ram and then pull out the stick, but u then cannot do cache and would rely on pulling music from off site which can degrade sound. Ideal way is to put the OS in a SSD, as the euphony is designed to do, and since Sata is slower and may be noisier an M2 drive via PCle may be optimized way. I presume u are running win on M2 drive, which is already an advantage. I don't know if these factors would give such significant negative effects. 

[Nsxturbo]

Hey Chopin75 and austinpop(Rajiv)

 

Thank you very much for the additional insight on some Stylus tuning tips. I will give them a try. Also, I probably for my own piece of mind purchase, will purchase the license, just to make sure I’m getting the most out of Euphony. At our level of reproduction every little change seems noticeable. I know I’ve recently gone optical between my USB DD converter into the M-Scaler and dual BNC to optical and back from it to the Dave (OptoDX) and a second optical out of the M-Scaler to my digital crossover for my mid bass and subwoofer amps, So no doubt that RF, EMI, leakage currents, all play a large part in computer playback based systems. 

PC tuning for specific hardware and software is definitely part of the puzzle, even if it there seems to still be trade offs from one setting to another! I expect that my learning curve for tuning streamlined Linux based software will be way quicker than Windows  !

 

 

[ASRMichael]

Hi 

 

Looking for a bit of help, finally purchased Euphony license, I already had end point license running my NAA. 

 

Euphony doesn't find my Thecus NAS. It's running SMB server. Works no issues with AL, & Roon, but not Euphony. I must be doing something wrong. address smb://192.168.1.100/Music. 

 

I type into server box 192.168.1.100 & Music in path box. is there a certain way to enter the info?

 

when I click browse it doesn’t find anything. 
 

I’m running from usb drive, no ssd’s installed

 

Thanks in advance

[austinpop]

54 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Hi 

 

Looking for a bit of help, finally purchased Euphony license, I already had end point license running my NAA. 

 

Euphony doesn't find my Thecus NAS. It's running SMB server. Works no issues with AL, & Roon, but not Euphony. I must be doing something wrong. address smb://192.168.1.100/Music. 

 

I type into server box 192.168.1.100 & Music in path box. is there a certain way to enter the info?

 

when I click browse it doesn’t find anything. 
 

I’m running from usb drive, no ssd’s installed

 

Thanks in advance

 

No, that looks correct to me. As a test, I tried to add another directory on my NAS to Euphony, and just got the spinning dots on the orange button. Something appears to be broken. Luckily, it still mounts my already configured network drive. 

 

Open a support ticket - it seems like something Željko needs to look at.

[Chopin75]

3 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

Hey Chopin75 and austinpop(Rajiv)

 

Thank you very much for the additional insight on some Stylus tuning tips. I will give them a try. Also, I probably for my own piece of mind purchase, will purchase the license, just to make sure I’m getting the most out of Euphony. At our level of reproduction every little change seems noticeable. I know I’ve recently gone optical between my USB DD converter into the M-Scaler and dual BNC to optical and back from it to the Dave (OptoDX) and a second optical out of the M-Scaler to my digital crossover for my mid bass and subwoofer amps, So no doubt that RF, EMI, leakage currents, all play a large part in computer playback based systems. 

PC tuning for specific hardware and software is definitely part of the puzzle, even if it there seems to still be trade offs from one setting to another! I expect that my learning curve for tuning streamlined Linux based software will be way quicker than Windows  !

 

 

Hmm, you have an interesting setup so that could be important. what exactly is this M-scaler ? An galvanic isolator ? but not is not a DDC ? The optical input to DAC definitely helps in reduce EMI/EMF  etc. I also use an optical  USB cable with great benefits but I have no galvanic isolator so my system is sensitive to noise from the server so I use power cable filters as well to counteract AC noise. I probably need a better LPS too.  It is possible that certain gear HW won't match a SW.Let's say if euphony OS prefers a simpler system it may end up working better without M-scaler (which looks like some hardcore upsampling device) for eg. I for e.g has taken my own igalvanic device after switching to Euphony OS on dedicated PC (but before I was using a MacBook that requires iglavanic isolator). 

I also took out a tube buffer as it clouds the sound after switching to balanced output on my DAC. Is it possible M-scaler matches Win better ? Maybe win running low res and then switched to HiRES in Mscaler works nicely. Running low res on the PC actually generates less noise than hi Res.  

What would happen if you run DSD256 (most demanding for CPU) without M-scaler ? (I presume M-scaler cannot do DSD ?)

Or DXD (24/352) directly to DAC.  Removing certain parts of the chain can unmask certain tings for the better or worse in SQ....

Maybe you can try moving components around ??

[Nsxturbo]

Hi Chopin75,

 

I would suggest you read about Rob Watts Chord Electronics M-Scaler. Pretty much cutting edge up scaling that feeds 768k PCM through dual BNC to Chord’s Dave or Hugo TT2 DAC’s. It is agnostic to  Linux, Windows or MAC OS. Many users here use is with Euphony Stylus, including austinpop. I’ve yet to hear any PC based upscaling that approaches its performance. But to stay on topic for Bob, let’s suffice to say other well respected users of it that post here are using It with Stylus which is what sparked my curiosity.

 

BTW each component I have is currently additive to my systems sound quality, I assure at this current juncture there is no part of my chain that I would remove.(I always leave components in for multiple days of listening and then remove them for multiple listening days.) Most of what I have in my post PC chain is well documented with worldwide positive feedback. Are there other options, you bet, with different engineering methodologies by different manufacturers such as DCS, EMM Labs or MBL but all are current state-of-the-art digital music reproduction.

[aangen]

An hour ago I set my Euphony PTS server to run in Roon Core + StylusEP mode. This is my first experience with Roon. I added Tidal a few days ago, and Qobuz a few weeks ago. At first I had Roon stream to the Bridge II card in my PS Audio Directstream DAC, just to verify the MQA was properly functioning. It was my first experience with MQA. I am not political about MQA yet. Now I am listening via the USB out to my Matrix and then to I2S. It sounds pretty much the same as it did pre-Roon. From what I have been reading I was afraid Roon would take the sound down a notch. This does not seem to be the case.

it all sounds better than my highly refined audio computer running that Windows stuff. It sounds pretty darned BOLD at the moment.

 

I enjoyed the commentary of the last 24 hours or so here. Some of you have experience with equipment I can only read about. Thanks for sharing!!!

[ASRMichael]

Hi

 

Anyone else here using Euphony Stylus with HQplayer?, I simple cannot get it to work, 16 hours. HQplayer and Roon work, but cannot get Stylus and HQ player to play anything. "No outputs"

 

Here everything I've done.

 

1) - Roon and HQ player work without any issues. See attached photos showing HQ player setting from http://192.168.1.75:8089/config, as you can see at the bottom it is showing my Streamer player running Euphony with NAA) "NAA: TAD-USB2D: USB Audio" This plays music no problem

 

2) - Then I start Stylus on main menu, Stylus says no output. as you can see from other attached photo I have HQ player box ticked to work with Stylus. The Euphony HQ player options cannot find my NAA, I presume this is the problem?

 

3) - Please note I have tried, 

 

        rebooted both versions of Euphony/Refreshing, 

        Rebooting my router, 

        changed IP address, 

        changed host names on Euphony to make sure no conflicts

        I even went to the shops and bought 2 other usb drives in case they were corrupt, still the same issue

        Tried Euphony downloader and also image

        Completed Euphony installations

        Tried from USB and running SSD, still I have the same issue. Euphony Stylus cannot find Euphony NAA

 

 

Anyone else experience these issues?

[ASRMichael]

Please ignore last post

[Holzohr]

16 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

 

 

Wow! What's the username and password for HQPe? That's new to me that's possible to access the web interface of HQPe on Euphony.

[Nenon]

On 10/17/2019 at 11:27 AM, Holzohr said:

I start to believe that Euphony is rather something for systems without such PCIe cards. The irqs of the mainboard USB ports get realtime priority by default (the same in Audiolinux). These PCIe cards (in my case a Matrix Element H) use a different irq without rt priority. The good thing is it's possible to adjust the rtirq.conf.

 

In response to that, I would quote a post I made in the JCAT forum last night while comparing the USB output from a JCAT USB PCIe card and the motherboard USB outputs. Just to clarify I was running Euphony.

11 hours ago, Nenon said:

I can confirm that too as I am listening to a computer I just built for a friend of mine. Switching from the JCAT to any of the motherboard USB ports collapses the entire sound stage, makes the sound flatter and harsher, the bass becomes boomier with less accuracy. Also, some motherboard USB ports sound better than other, but the JCAT USB output is way better. 

The good thing is if one wants to hear what 'jitter' sounds like in digital audio, the switching between the JCAT USB output and the motherboard USB makes it really easy to hear :). 

 

Perhaps Euphony can be tweaked even more by configuring realtime priority to the PCIe card. Typically if you contact Euphony support with a request like that, Željko would remote to your box and apply the custom settings. 

[ASRMichael]

HQ Player user and password is Euphony & Euphony

[Holzohr]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

HQ Player user and password is Euphony & Euphony

 

Great! Thank you! That must be new. I was talking to Željko about access to the web interface of HQPe a couple of weeks ago.