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Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

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guys any one compared the SQ of euphony between the bridged ethernet port and USB to a roon ready endpoint like brinkmann nyquist for example ?

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27 minutes ago, aangen said:

So now, just to make it interesting I have a new Tidal account.

Does Euphony OS have any MQA ability?

 

Euphony has pass through ability. In case you have a MQA-ready DAC give Tidal a try with the Stylus Player (or with Roon).


Euphony (Roon/HQPlayer, Stylus) --> "magic" NUC7CJYH (Euphony-ramroot/NAA, StylusEP) / pi3B+/HifiBerry Digi + Pro (GentooPlayer-ramroot/RoonBridge) --> Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (MQA) --> B & M Prime 6

bedroom: pi3/DigiOne (RoPieee) --> S.M.S.L M500 --> KRK Rokit 5 or AKG 712 Pro

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That's the thing. I have a PS Audio Directstream DAC. It can do the MQA thing but only through the Ethernet Bridge. I am not sure how to send something from the Euphony server to the Ethernet Bridge card on the DAC. 

It's looking like Roon is the answer.

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Ah yes, Roon is really the answer with the DS DAC and its Bridge II. I had this PS Audio DAC and the Bridge II until summer of last year. Roon and MQA worked well via the Bridge II.

My new X-Sabre Pro (MQA) does accept MQA via USB only whereas the iFi Pro iDSD (it replaced the DS DAC) even accepts MQA through all inputs.


Euphony (Roon/HQPlayer, Stylus) --> "magic" NUC7CJYH (Euphony-ramroot/NAA, StylusEP) / pi3B+/HifiBerry Digi + Pro (GentooPlayer-ramroot/RoonBridge) --> Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro (MQA) --> B & M Prime 6

bedroom: pi3/DigiOne (RoPieee) --> S.M.S.L M500 --> KRK Rokit 5 or AKG 712 Pro

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Hi all,

 

I am thinking of switching from SATA drive to octane drive for Euphony. 

For those using optane drive I know one can use AMD CPU but are there any specific motherboards that need to be used ? I have x370. I know from youtube it states it will work on x470. Just not sure if it can work on other motherboards too. Also, people using octane uses the PS from the motherboard or from a separate PS to the drive itself ? 

Thanks! 

 

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Good morning everyone. After much delay, I finally decided to try Linux which is the new "darling" around the world: the Euphony Stylus. Having tried the massive majority of free and paid Linux (Daphile, Archphile, Runeaudio, Volumio, Jaguar Audio Design, AudioLinux, among others, including even the most basic ones like KODIbuntu), and failed to try programming since from begining a Linux that was superior to Windows in music playback, I bowed to the testing of the internationally commented Euphony Stylus as the best available. It costs nonsense €249.00 (I find it ridiculous to be a Linux), but for all I heard, who calls it "best of the day" is, in fact, right.

 

After much reading to verify the best method of tuning, I used the setting indicated by most users as being superior in sound quality. To do this, (i) loaded the operating system into RAM, (ii) set the buffering of songs to RAM, and (iii) used Stylus mode, which, among others available, has apparently outperformed Roon in native mode and Roon combined with HQPlayer. The Stylus interface is extremely simple, but, because I already passed Roon's free trial, I opted to try Euphony exclusively in Stylus mode.

 

It's the best "finished and ready operating system" I've ever experienced. It's far superior to AudioLinux and any other because it doesn't have that overly clean, polished "tinny sound" that is typical of Linux, which "stageophiles" and "bassophiles" love. Euphony may be the only Linux I've known since I learned how to properly configure a Windows which I really liked. Still loses, by a good margin, to Windows Server 2019 Datacenter Core Mode (17763.593) with Audiophile Optimizer v. 3.00, JPLAY FEMTO and Minority Clean X installed. In direct comparison, Euphony still denotes some dryness and harmonic poverty, while Windows Server 2019 delivers much richer, fuller sound. It's a much more beautiful and organic sound. The voices are correct, which doesn't exist with Linux. So while it's less exhibitionistic than the others and doesn't appeal to excessive clarity to create a false sense of detail and definition, it still has the same timeless inaccuracy that is common to Linux. It's amazing how explicit it is.

 

To hear “audiophile music” sound doesn't easily denote many deficiencies without instant and direct comparison. However, to hear “ordinary music”, which doesn't always have a great deal of attention in recording or (re)mastering, Euphony makes things a little less comfortable but still easily audible.

 

But what struck me most, and I haven't noticed in any other tests I've done, either with free or paid operating systems, is that Euphony limits the music dynamics. The system loses articulation and cannot reach high levels of sound intensity, as required, for example, in Hugh Masekela's Stimela songs and Harry Belafonte's Mama Look a Boo Boo. It sets a clear limit, as if the amplifier clipped, which doesn't exist with Windows and even with AudioLinux. I was intrigued, because never, in an operating system test, did this feature catch my ears. I can't vouch because I don't know the specifics of the project and intend to use the 30 day free trial to exhaust any possibility of improvement of Euphony, but the feeling I got after hours of listening was that in an attempt to "tame" the typical Linux sound that I critique, reducing glare and highlighting in the early harmonics, the developers eventually inserted some algorithm or hit that, while making the overall sound more palpable, limited the articulation, the dynamics.

 

I believe the transport has favored the performance of this Linux, but it's a fact that, for those who don't have the opportunity to draw a direct comparison between a well-tuned Windows and Euphony Stylus, it performs very well. What's more, for those who don't know how to tweak Windows with a deep degree and/or want something that is simple to install, configure (takes less than 10 minutes), play and forget, it's the best I've ever had opportunity to meet. It plays well and needs very few adjustments. Just not cheap.

 

By the way, any other tips for improving the playback level? Thanks.

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Felipe,

 

You wrote-: "Still loses, by a good margin, to Windows Server 2019 Datacenter Core Mode (17763.593) with Audiophile Optimizer v. 3.00, JPLAY FEMTO and Minority Clean X installed."

 

I am not computer-savvy, and I would like to know whether I can purchase a computer that is setup as you described, and that is fully "finished and ready to play"?

 

Jeff.

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30 minutes ago, Nsxturbo said:

Greetings Felipe,

 

What a crazy coincidence! I just spent all day yesterday getting Euphony set up on my music PC and listening to Stylus. I too was interested in what everyone else was raving about.

 

For years I’ve been using XXHiEnd on a particular build of Windows 10 running out of RAM. It was actually a necessary part of getting 768k upscaled audio sent to my Phasure NOS1 DAC. Simply sublime playback. I now have an additional system that consists of a Chord M-Scaler into a Dave directly driving a high efficiency horn system directly off the Dave’s RCA outputs without an amplifier. I feed the M-Scaler through a highly optimized usb DDC to optical output unit clocked with Mutec Reference10 master clock.(really to many other tweeks to mention here.) The PC is an optimized Xeon Scalable 12 core/24 thread processor with 48G of ECC Memory in a Supermicro server motherboard running off a custom linear power supply. No hard drive is present and the OS is running in RAM. I’ve still been using XXHiEnd software but playing files in their native resolution. Really sounds Jaw-dropping, head shaking incredible! Just about every adjective others have used to describe accurate and realistic playback apply.

 

So I got Euphony up and running out of RAM on the same PC and system. I’ve got to say it really is a pretty slick program and I find Stylus plenty functional and user friendly. (OK, it’s not Roon, which I use for my whole house audio ;) ) But there is always Stylus Endpoint for Roon integration. And Stylus does allow Qobuz and Tidal integration and playback. 
 

Now for the listening impressions. I used my highly familiar test tracks and albums. Rebecca Pidgeon- The Raven, Cowboy Junkies- Trinity Revisited, Various Norah Jones albums, Amber Rubarth, Rhiannon Giddens, Sarah K, Holly Cole, Dire Straits, Johnny Cash, Plus multiple orchestral selections, pretty much the whole gamut!

I would describe it as highly resolving, nice black background and good separation and good wide soundstage with a decent sense of depth. Really all the things that you would think would draw you into the performance. But it just wasn’t, something was off I couldn’t quite put a finger on it, it just sounded like the life was missing. 
 

So back to XXHighEnd and Windows out of RAM I went. Now what was missing was readily obvious! The textures, the body, the sense of real depth, the naturalness. It really was no comparison. Stylus was just not even in the same league. Could it get there? I don’t know, but it has a long way to go and I’m not sure if Linux is the underlying issue.

 

I think this gives me the impetus to explore Window Server 2019, Audiophile Optimizer and JPLAY out of RAM. I suspect that it would be more in-line with the level of playback XXHiEnd provides me.

 

Hello. Very interesting your impressions. After many years of experimentation, I'm convinced that much of the audio performance comes, in addition to dedicated hardware (no moving parts, good level linear power supplies, among other things), from the driver provided by the manufacturer, and the software. The perfect integration of the software with the hardware, coming from the specific drivers and their integration with the software (in my case, JPLAY FEMTO, with which I use Ayre QB-9 with its own Thesycon driver in Kernel Streaming mode) leaves the result many higher than using native or generic drivers (as with Linux).

 

I believe this is, among others, one of the reasons why a well-matched Windows has superior performance. However, I think this is a subject that would yield many pages and escape the theme of this thread.

 

22 minutes ago, Jeff Mann said:

Felipe,

 

You wrote-: "Still loses, by a good margin, to Windows Server 2019 Datacenter Core Mode (17763.593) with Audiophile Optimizer v. 3.00, JPLAY FEMTO and Minority Clean X installed."

 

I am not computer-savvy, and I would like to know whether I can purchase a computer that is setup as you described, and that is fully "finished and ready to play"?

 

Jeff.

 

Hi Jeff. I don't know where it would be possible to find something like this. My Windows, installed on my two dedicated computers, have been punctually tuned for many years since I was still using Windows 7 to play music and more basic software like foobar2000. The improvement was slow and careful, and I believe that is why I was able to reach the current stage of soundness and accuracy.

 

Anyway, I don't believe that I've developed something universal (which is impossible with a Windows), and I'm convinced that every computer and sound system requires a specific hit. Only with Linux you can achieve something with sufficient degree of abstraction to the point of creating a universal product, but the specific arrangement needed to extract juice from the system isn't possible.

 

I'm not criticizing. I never liked AudioLinux, because I really think it has tin sound, but I really liked Euphony. It just doesn't beat the Windows I set. For a universal product, easy to set up, it's perfect.

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Hi all,

 

I am thinking of switching from SATA drive to octane drive for Euphony. 

For those using optane drive I know one can use AMD CPU but are there any specific motherboards that need to be used ? I have x370. I know from youtube it states it will work on x470. Just not sure if it can work on other motherboards too. Also, people using octane uses the PS from the motherboard or from a separate PS to the drive itself ? 

Thanks! 

 

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Hey Nenon,

 

Thank you for a your insight about matching the PC with the playback software, but perhaps you didn’t look my post and my PC setup, which is about as modern as you can get, save the Intel persistent memory RAM ;). But high performance with very high grade ECC RAM modules and high grade linear power supply. 
 

Just food for thought,

Todd

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3 hours ago, FelipeRolim said:

Good morning everyone. After much delay, I finally decided to try Linux which is the new "darling" around the world: the Euphony Stylus. Having tried the massive majority of free and paid Linux (Daphile, Archphile, Runeaudio, Volumio, Jaguar Audio Design, AudioLinux, among others, including even the most basic ones like KODIbuntu), and failed to try programming since from begining a Linux that was superior to Windows in music playback, I bowed to the testing of the internationally commented Euphony Stylus as the best available. It costs nonsense €249.00 (I find it ridiculous to be a Linux), but for all I heard, who calls it "best of the day" is, in fact, right.

 

After much reading to verify the best method of tuning, I used the setting indicated by most users as being superior in sound quality. To do this, (i) loaded the operating system into RAM, (ii) set the buffering of songs to RAM, and (iii) used Stylus mode, which, among others available, has apparently outperformed Roon in native mode and Roon combined with HQPlayer. The Stylus interface is extremely simple, but, because I already passed Roon's free trial, I opted to try Euphony exclusively in Stylus mode.

 

It's the best "finished and ready operating system" I've ever experienced. It's far superior to AudioLinux and any other because it doesn't have that overly clean, polished "tinny sound" that is typical of Linux, which "stageophiles" and "bassophiles" love. Euphony may be the only Linux I've known since I learned how to properly configure a Windows which I really liked. Still loses, by a good margin, to Windows Server 2019 Datacenter Core Mode (17763.593) with Audiophile Optimizer v. 3.00, JPLAY FEMTO and Minority Clean X installed. In direct comparison, Euphony still denotes some dryness and harmonic poverty, while Windows Server 2019 delivers much richer, fuller sound. It's a much more beautiful and organic sound. The voices are correct, which doesn't exist with Linux. So while it's less exhibitionistic than the others and doesn't appeal to excessive clarity to create a false sense of detail and definition, it still has the same timeless inaccuracy that is common to Linux. It's amazing how explicit it is.

 

To hear “audiophile music” sound doesn't easily denote many deficiencies without instant and direct comparison. However, to hear “ordinary music”, which doesn't always have a great deal of attention in recording or (re)mastering, Euphony makes things a little less comfortable but still easily audible.

 

But what struck me most, and I haven't noticed in any other tests I've done, either with free or paid operating systems, is that Euphony limits the music dynamics. The system loses articulation and cannot reach high levels of sound intensity, as required, for example, in Hugh Masekela's Stimela songs and Harry Belafonte's Mama Look a Boo Boo. It sets a clear limit, as if the amplifier clipped, which doesn't exist with Windows and even with AudioLinux. I was intrigued, because never, in an operating system test, did this feature catch my ears. I can't vouch because I don't know the specifics of the project and intend to use the 30 day free trial to exhaust any possibility of improvement of Euphony, but the feeling I got after hours of listening was that in an attempt to "tame" the typical Linux sound that I critique, reducing glare and highlighting in the early harmonics, the developers eventually inserted some algorithm or hit that, while making the overall sound more palpable, limited the articulation, the dynamics.

 

I believe the transport has favored the performance of this Linux, but it's a fact that, for those who don't have the opportunity to draw a direct comparison between a well-tuned Windows and Euphony Stylus, it performs very well. What's more, for those who don't know how to tweak Windows with a deep degree and/or want something that is simple to install, configure (takes less than 10 minutes), play and forget, it's the best I've ever had opportunity to meet. It plays well and needs very few adjustments. Just not cheap.

 

By the way, any other tips for improving the playback level? Thanks.

Interesting findings, as linux based system supposedly to be best for audio (at least for a finished product), but perhaps endless personal tweeking on windows can achieve same or better effects (ironically some audiophiles would not even talk to someone who still uses windows or Mac!). I am not computer savvy and I hate windows (maybe also a bit personal, as I am Mac fan) so there is no way for me to do windows with then endless pain of difficulty in finding/loading drivers. (yah, I am rather computer illiterate) . Regards the euphony OS you have, are you still testing the OS using trial version on a USB thumb drive? If so that is quite inferior to using a SSD. It appears that octane drive works best with Euphony OS. The registered paid version is also a bit more stable and so is better than the trial  version.   100% buffer is also important.  I also find Ecache helps a lot if you don't have internally stored music on the SSD.

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I loaded Euphony into RAM, which is available on the trial version and of course I used 100% buffer. not sure why loading to RAM from Optane would make a difference?

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3 hours ago, FelipeRolim said:

In direct comparison, Euphony still denotes some dryness and harmonic poverty, while Windows Server 2019 delivers much richer, fuller sound. It's a much more beautiful and organic sound. The voices are correct, which doesn't exist with Linux. So while it's less exhibitionistic than the others and doesn't appeal to excessive clarity to create a false sense of detail and definition, it still has the same timeless inaccuracy that is common to Linux. It's amazing how explicit it is.

 

2 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

So back to XXHighEnd and Windows out of RAM I went. Now what was missing was readily obvious! The textures, the body, the sense of real depth, the naturalness. It really was no comparison. Stylus was just not even in the same league. Could it get there? I don’t know, but it has a long way to go and I’m not sure if Linux is the underlying issue.

 

This! Couldn't agree more.

 

Our system, ears and personal preferences are obviously different. So there's no absolute in this. I'll be brief.

 

For years, I've been using Windows Server optimized with AudioPhileOptimizer in my highly tweaked music server with i7 CPU (dated at this point). Last year, I installed AudioLinux (boot from USB on the same server) - my first foray into Linux. It was exactly like you described, good soundstage, lots of details and extension. But the richer texture, full bodied sound that I get from Windows Server was missing. After tweaking AL for months, I gave up and went back to Windows Server again.

 

Last month, I tried Euphony only for few days. Really impressed with how good the whole package is. More dynamic and musical than AL. Didn't try Euphony's 100% file caching but overall while it sounded better than AL but fell short compare to Windows Server optimized with AO. There's something about this dryness in Linux sound, it gets fatiguing. 

 

I've used Windows Server 2012, 2016 and 2019. In my ears, Windows Server 2016 is the one to get (esp if you are using AO which is a must for Windows). To my ears, WS2016 smoother and organic sounding than WS2012 and WS2019.

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22 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Hi Felipe,

 

If you are the same person who contributes a lot to the jplay forum, I have read many of your posts there. Thank you for sharing so much of your experience. And if I recall correctly, in one of your posts you mentioned that every time you try to share something useful on this forum you get attacked by sharks (well, not exactly what you said) who has a different vision. I will try to be extra careful with my comments. 

Actually, when it comes to open minded people here on this forum, I am as open minded as it gets. I would try everything as long as it does not pass the border with complete stupidity. I have played with Windows and AO but never the exact combination you have mentioned. That's going on my list of things to to try one day. 

 

But I wanted to say what I think about your "dynamics" limit with Euphony:

 

Euphony works best with very powerful CPUs and fast RAM. The faster the CPU, the more dynamic the sound is. You can clearly hear a difference in dynamics by enabling the Intel Turbo Boost in my Core i9 9900K CPU (vs. disabling it), or even when reducing the CPU frequency by a couple hundred Mhz. The same thing applies to my AMD Ryzen 3700X CPU based music server. Reducing the CPU frequencies reduces the dynamics.

Euphony is using a low latency kernel... I don't think they have "inserted some algorithm" to change the sound. I just think they picked a Linux kernel that sounds good and applied the typical low latency kernel optimizations... but that's just a speculation on my side. However, what is not a speculation is that those types of Linux distributions (if done right) can squeeze a lot more of the hardware resources you have available and process data with significantly lower latency (compared to Windows that is... I do that for living and have a first hand experience). Look at the high performance trading industry, and you would never see people using Windows servers for anything critical. Now, that does not say anything about how one OS sounds compared to the other, but it takes me to the next point, which is why I believe you have limited dynamics with Euphony.

Looking at the system listed in your profile - it seems like you are using an Intel Core i7-4750T. That's a 6-year old CPU that only works with DDR3 RAM, and it is not exactly a fast CPU by today's standards. From my experience, Euphony really started to shine when I tried the top of the line consumer grade CPUs like the Intel i9 9900K and AMD Ryzen 7 3700X with no frequency limiting. I did mention that, but as soon as you start limiting the frequencies, you start losing dynamics. 

I have always looked at the digital source as a complex chain starting from the player, OS, hardware, power supplies, cables, interface with the DAC, the DAC architecture, etc. etc. You change one of these elements, and you have to rethink the entire chain.

You have a highly optimized Windows-based system. It's so well optimized over the years that there is probably no significant improvement you can make by changing a single element of the system. You switched the OS to Euphony, and it sounded worse. No surprise there. If I put tractor tires on Ferrari, it would not perform better. Neither would a truck with Lamborghini tires. If you really want to hear the full potential of Euphony, you should try it with a much faster CPU. 

 

Thanks for the contribution, Nenon. I believe my subscription is out of date. I tried Euphony on both computers I have, the Core i3-8100T, with 16GB DDR4 RAM, and the i7-4785T and 16GB DDR3 RAM. In both cases, taking care to have the JCAT USB Card FEMTO as output. Both computers, when running Windows, work much better with TurboBoost turned off (i3 doesn't), just like Hyper-Threading, C-States, and other elements. I did not make any changes to the BIOS, but it was interesting to comment on it. I'm still in the 30 day trial, and I will try to get as much Euphony as possible. It will have to evolve a lot to overcome Windows. Thanks for saying, I will try it on the weekend.

 

14 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

Interesting findings, as linux based system supposedly to be best for audio (at least for a finished product), but perhaps endless personal tweeking on windows can achieve same or better effects (ironically some audiophiles would not even talk to someone who still uses windows or Mac!). I am not computer savvy and I hate windows (maybe also a bit personal, as I am Mac fan) so there is no way for me to do windows with then endless pain of difficulty in finding/loading drivers. (yah, I am rather computer illiterate) . Regards the euphony OS you have, are you still testing the OS using trial version on a USB thumb drive? If so that is quite inferior to using a SSD. It appears that octane drive works best with Euphony OS. The registered paid version is also a bit more stable and so is better than the trial  version.   100% buffer is also important.  I also find Ecache helps a lot if you don't have internally stored music on the SSD.

 

Thanks for your comments. As I said: (i) loaded the operating system into RAM, (ii) set the buffering of songs to RAM, and (iii) used Stylus mode. I still have some things to try, so tips like Nenon's are very welcome. I'm going to experiment with changing the processor clock this weekend, and reactivate some features of the motherboard and processors.

01 - Instalação.jpg

02 - Configurações01.jpg

02 - Configurações02.jpg

02 - Configurações03.jpg

03 - Reprodução.jpg

04 - Reprodução.jpg

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Yes, very interesting info. Guys, why not create a new Windows vs. Euphony thread?

 

Also, if possible, if someone could describe the recipe to replicate the results described on WS201*? I've been there, done that with Windows/AO, but it was some years ago, so I am open to new ideas.

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Hi Bob,

 

I really do feel like my posts are about what variables might be hindering me from getting the most out of Euphony. I am not proposing in the least that my mind is made up optimizing my music playback software. So I’ll only post things relating to maximizing Stylus ;) 

 

Todd

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I don't know how productive that would be. Many people are only concerned with making their views prevail, not with learning and sharing their experiences. I confess I am very reluctant to try Linux. The only one I liked was Euphony, but I'm willing to learn and listen, since I don't have to spend my money paying for a license beforehand.

 

I'm still reluctant to adopt certain things that are sold in this forum as solutions. But, I can test what is suggested. Any tips for optimizing the operation of Euphony on my hardware will be very welcome. Nenon's are annotated.

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12 minutes ago, FelipeRolim said:

 

Thanks for the contribution, Nenon. I believe my subscription is out of date. I tried Euphony on both computers I have, the Core i3-8100T, with 16GB DDR4 RAM, and the i7-4785T and 16GB DDR3 RAM. In both cases, taking care to have the JCAT USB Card FEMTO as output. Both computers, when running Windows, work much better with TurboBoost turned off (i3 doesn't), just like Hyper-Threading, C-States, and other elements. I did not make any changes to the BIOS, but it was interesting to comment on it. I'm still in the 30 day trial, and I will try to get as much Euphony as possible. It will have to evolve a lot to overcome Windows. Thanks for saying, I will try it on the weekend.

 

 

Thanks for your comments. As I said: (i) loaded the operating system into RAM, (ii) set the buffering of songs to RAM, and (iii) used Stylus mode. I still have some things to try, so tips like Nenon's are very welcome. I'm going to experiment with changing the processor clock this weekend, and reactivate some features of the motherboard and processors.

01 - Instalação.jpg

02 - Configurações01.jpg

02 - Configurações02.jpg

02 - Configurações03.jpg

03 - Reprodução.jpg

04 - Reprodução.jpg

I see , thanks! Now just to confirm, are you using USB Stick to load the OS to RAM ? This reminds me that I am not sure if SSD makes a big difference with RAMroot (I have not tried RAMroot) but per these guys here, optane + RAMroot works best. 

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