Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[RickyV]

7 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

 

Firstly, the Core 0 temperature increases after applying my particular Isolation settings (as previously posted). After reboot, the temperature reduces to the default values. If I hit the Apply button at this point, the temperature starts increasing again.

 

Secondly, I believe that hitting the Apply button with an empty field will show the actual core values without changing them. If I do this after applying Isolation, the display shows the correct values. If I do this after reboot, the displays shows the default values (0-7 for everything). Tip: Remember to Ctrl/C your isolation settings before clearing the field, so you can quickly re-instate then later.

 

Thirdly, by listening. If I re-hit the Apply button, I get a boost in SQ. Any subjective test is not totally reliable, but that's what I hear. It's harder to notice this on reboot because of the larger time lapse and because even default sounds pretty good anyway.

 

 

I will try if I can find the same problem.

[RickyV]

2 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

No, I'm not using ramroot. I tried again last night with the same results as before. It could be a CPU/motheboard-related issue: If my 7i7DN board doesn't fully respond to CPU frequency settings, maybe it also doesn't fully handle core isolation as well? RickyV may be able to answer that question when he tries my tests - as he also has a 7i7DN-based server.

 

Well Mr. Attorney you are right. I have testes this without listening and went purely by cpu temp and with empty field applying. It is always with the same results so after switching the server off/on or reboot or restart app, you have to set core isolation again by hitting apply (the field should still filled). This is with the NUC7i7dn..

 

Core temperatures with no isolation. Default.

 

Core temperatures with isolation.

After reboot it goes back to default.

But if you hit restart app you’ll get:

or

 

So after restart app core isolation goes a bit haywire. (Timedatectl: )

 

 

[RickyV]

7 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

So, with only 4 real cores available (and Turbo on), I found that    0 stylus 1-2 gstp 3   gave me even greater clarity and dynamics - the best yet. Strangely, with HW off, stylus now causes the highest CPU load, and Everything Else the least - the opposite of what I saw before - goodness knows why! That's why I allocated 2 cores to stylus to stop it going beyond 70C. Overall, CPU temperatures are a few degrees C lower than with HW, so a good result in every way.

 

So I have been trying this, this evening and the feelings I get are : 

more dynamic, calmness (like running the cpu at 1.9ghz), maybe a little more spacial. 

But the jury is still out on this I switched only ones.

[RickyV]

Yes ramroot seems to deliver more air around instruments, voices etc. Better defined space. Real nice.

Together with core isolation which was also an uptic I would say ramroot is an uptic+.

The only thing I am not sure about is the cpu frequency, I keep switching but fail to choose winner.

👍👍👍

 

[RickyV]

2 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

Only 2 days later, another "new feature" release 20190912 has appeared:

 

I haven't spotted any new features , but SQ seems to have further improved in a particular way. The previous release did indeed have more air, better defined space, greater clarity and focus in Ramroot. But further listening to my brighter recordings showed that it was not shy in showing up the brighter aspects of the recording.

 

This new release seems to have added a more full bodied, natural presentation (what Euphony Stylus was originally praised for), without any apparent loss of that ramroot clarity. My reference point has changed several times in the last few weeks, so I'm no longer sure whether the latest changes are real or imaginary. Maybe I'm just getting used to the new sound? Or maybe something else has changed in the background? But whatever, I'm really, really enjoying this new release.

 

 

 

Oh wow a second new release i’ll try it this evening. 

[RickyV]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Indeed. To reiterate - only use the "Copy app data to RAM" flag for the specific case where:

1. you're booting off ejectable media like USB stick, AND
2. you're running endpoint services like Roon Bridge, StylusEP, Squeezelite, or NAA.

Using this flag for running Roon Server or Stylus is not something I'd recommend, due to the crippled functionality.

 

Avoid the "Copy app data to RAM" option like the plague if you're booting off an internal drive, like Optane or other SSD. These devices can't be ejected anyway, so the whole point of this option is moot.

 

So if one was to click too quality and you evoked the plague upon yourself what has one to do to cast the demon out again? 😁

[RickyV]

New version: 20190918

[RickyV]

14 minutes ago, Nenon said:

The new Euphony version is out. 

 

 Fantastic, Whats new?

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

Here is the full change log:

20200114
- Summus server special features (only active on Summus server)
- StylusEP can be used as HQplayer endpoint in Roon 
- Added option to convert all formats (except DSD) to WAV for Stylus + HQPe upsampling
- Added support for UPnP renderer endpoints
- Added option to buffer entire Queue to RAM
- Added indication of cached (light blue) and buffered songs (blue) in Queue
- Added option to skip library scan on startup
- Added 'Recendly added' Dashboard menu item
- Added intro page with option to change registration email for first-time users
- Added Expert option: Disk spindown timeout
- Added SMB version option to 'Add network drive' dialog
- Fixed Youtube playback issue that recently appeared due to changes in Youtube API made by Google
- Introducing 'Radio' flag - after last song put in Queue by user, next song is automatically added from local library (basic matching for now - to be improved..)
- 'Complete instalation' function now fully prepares the system - the same as 'Install'  
- Fixed Stylus + HQPe Qobuz playback (song is fully buffered before it is given to HQPe) 
- Fixed calculation of available RAM for entering ramroot
- Fixed Artist pic retrieval for currently playing song
- Updated HQPe to 4.12.2
- Added latest HQPe options to Euphony HQPe settings
- Monitor Roon updates while in ramroot (if update happened root fs is saved to disk automatically)
- Hostname change and timezone change should work in ramroot
- Improved update image download behaviour (you can resume interrupted/incomplete download) 
- Optimised communication between browser client and server
- Click on artist name opens artist's page on LastFM
- CTRL + click on release number on Library page opens Settings with Expert section expanded
- Fixed search for NAA devices on network
- Improved checks for internet connectivity
- Kernel security mitigations are disabled now

 

This is the option I am excited about:

- Added option to buffer entire Queue to RAM

 

 

Yep me too but I have just one simm of 4Gb in my NUC and now I am wondering if that is not enough anymore.

[RickyV]

I have updated to the new version and also playing with 4GB RAM but when I push ramroot it says “Sorry, you don't have enough RAM to use ramroot with Euphony.

Now I am really confused. I was gonna say “ and I do not see Buffer queue to ram” button. Then thought, but I play from Tidal so it can’t buffer the queue. So I went to 

My Music to look for the button. I haven’t been there in a while because I have my music on a ssd and it is NOT connected, so tidal only.  To my surprise there’s a music on there maybe not all but 6 albums or so? Somehow I have accidentally copied a part of my ssd to the 32GB optane stick. 
Can this be the cause of the not enough RAM for ramroot. And how can I delete the 6 albums?

Before the update I also used ramroot.

 

[RickyV]

2 hours ago, RickyV said:

I have updated to the new version and also playing with 4GB RAM but when I push ramroot it says “Sorry, you don't have enough RAM to use ramroot with Euphony.

Now I am really confused. I was gonna say “ and I do not see Buffer queue to ram” button. Then thought, but I play from Tidal so it can’t buffer the queue. So I went to 

My Music to look for the button. I haven’t been there in a while because I have my music on a ssd and it is NOT connected, so tidal only.  To my surprise there’s a music on there maybe not all but 6 albums or so? Somehow I have accidentally copied a part of my ssd to the 32GB optane stick. 
Can this be the cause of the not enough RAM for ramroot. And how can I delete the 6 albums?

Before the update I also used ramroot.

 

Ramroot problem is fixed. I managed to delete 68% of the /data partition so “my music” is now empty. Now I can engage ramroot. 
New question: Is it normal to have 4 partitions? Especially the two 3.4GB partitions.

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

 

I have Stylus running on 7i7DN in the small, fanless, Porcoolpine case. The CPU speed makes a huge difference to the CPU temperature. At full throttle (Turbo and Hyperthreading on), the temp hovered around 70C. At my current setting (1.1 Ghz, hyperthreading off) temp is around 36C, and total server AC power consumption is a miserly 8W. Any speed up to the base 1.9Ghz makes only a small difference to temp - it's the Turbo boost that greatly impacts temp.

 

When I had hyperhthreading on, the faster CPU speeds sounded better, as is current consensus around here. With hyperthreading off, I heard little difference between the CPU speeds - and actually slightly preferred current setting to Turbo. This could have been wishful thinking because the peace of mind of low temp (and helping save the planet) makes me feel so much more relaxed that it makes my system sound better too 🙂

 

 

I have set my nuc7i7dn to fanless in the bios. The CPU speed now fluctuates between 3.5 and 3.8 Ghz and I am likening the sound. My CPU temperature under 50c but I have a different case.

I have also disabled  all int. and ext USB ports except the 3.1 ports. HT off the rest is on in that menu. Power is set to max.

 

It is my belief that if you set the nuc to fanless the fan circuit is switch off and does not consume power or creates noise. 

Not sure if it's possible to switch off one of the display ports. A while back somebody switched of one or two display ports and bricked the nuc.

[RickyV]

New Sw update 20200131.

[RickyV]

7 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

This was released days ago. I still get stuck from time to time with Ramroot + buffer Queue. 

oh ok, until yesterday day I was still on 20200114 and wouldn’t update till yesterday.

[RickyV]

Again? 😅 it’s 20200210.

[RickyV]

33 minutes ago, Blake said:

Has anyone purchased the Euphony Summus Server or been able to find any user reviews online?  

 

Also, curious if anyone has a rough guess on what a roughly comparable DIY server would be?

 

 

A good many people have build a Summus like server with a intel NUC7i7dn.. in an Akasa plato case.

An other possibility is a porcupine from simplyNUC, @bobfa has one.

Or if you are feeling adventurous AMD is coming with a fan less ryzen NUC that might be interesting.

[RickyV]

8 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Thanks, I just checked out the porcoolpine.  So DIY would be around $1,000 for the NUC and then buying the Euphony software for a total DIY of around $1,300?

I just bought the NUC board, that is the 7i7DNBE version. Intel optane 32gb m.2 stick for the OS. And apacer ram 75.B93GJ.G010B from https://www.soselectronic.com/memory-modules?query=Apacer sodimm&category=3360&params=466%3ASODIMM|279%3ADDR4|181%3A2400&param_current=280

And buy the best power supply you can find. Can’t advise on that or the akasa case.

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

Apacer, and that was trivial to replace.

I thought you were satisfied with the Apacer ram sq upgrade, 70 euro for a clearly audible upgrade isn't not bad.

[RickyV]

36 minutes ago, TheAttorney said:

 

I forgot about the power supply because I already had a spare rail waiting on my PH SR7, so I didn't need to buy anything extra.

But yes, upgrading the power supply would indeed be the first thing to do.  The supplied one was the usual cheapo switching power supply, which was enough to get a flavour of what the NUC could do, but easily improved upon. This is a whole topic in itself.

 

 

I don't follow. I am indeed very happy with the Apacer RAM.

 

My only consideration at this point is that I went for just 4GB RAM, which was sufficient to run Stylus even in ramroot mode.

But now with the new queue buffer option, that is stretching what can practically be achieved:

4GB is still enough even for 200+ redbook tracks buffered into RAM, but with that amount queued, RAM usage gets to around/beyond 90% and that seems to impact SQ.

 

So now I'm thinking of getting a second 4GB (2400 speed) Apacer. Or spend quite a bit more to get the new 8GB 2666 Apacer, which apparently sounds better still.

 

whoops sorry now that I am reading the last sentence back of post 1035 I see that I misunderstood. 
 

What new Apacer ram would that be and can we buy it somewhere. It’s a pity this industrial ram is hard to get.

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

Željko remotely fixed my RAM limit issue very quickly (and on a Sunday) once I had activated the remote control, This is the first time I've used this feature - seems very useful to get remote control access without the user needing to run any 3rd party remote desktop type of product. Just click the red RC button to toggle RC on and off.

 

I continue to be impressed that a measly 4GB RAM is enough to run standalone Stylus in ramroot, with well over 1GB spare for queue buffering - enough to load several redbook albums. Makes the 2 x 48GB Taiko Extreme look a touch... extreme 🙂. My understanding is that the next update will have its RAM limits (re)adjusted to allow for minimalists like me.

 

Anyway, prior to the fix, I spent last night listening in non-ramroot mode for the first time in ages - and the resulting rather "digital" presentation reminded me that ramroot is definitely worthwhile, at least in my setup.

 

Like you I am a 4GB minimalists too, do you know what Željko has done? I can’t access ramroot for a long while now. Did he remove cover art or was it more than that? Maybe I should just buy an other 4GB simm and be done with it.

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

 

I could resist no longer and enabled hyper-threading on my 7i7DN (8650U) so I could try out these latest core isolations.

 

My first reaction was how different HT sounded compared to my usual HT off, even with the same speeds and equivalent core isolation. Smoother and more natural. At first I wasn't sure if this smoothness was good or bad, but going back to HT off resulted in a thinner, "digital" sound, so HT is staying on. And no difference to core temperature or power consumption.

 

So good news, and now the better news: Whilst I broadly agree with your findings, I think I've found an even better combination than [0 gstp 1-7]. To my ears, [0-1 gstp 1-7] gives even more of the above SQ benefits, plus the further bonus of a significantly lower temperature for physical core 0. The temperatures are now more balanced across the cores, which isn't intuitive because it's the same physical core 0 in both cases. And virtual core 1 is now sharing gstp with everything else. Core Isolation moves in mysterious ways.

 

Compared to above SQ differences, I found turbo boost to be marginal, so I'm sticking with 1.1Ghz for the peace of mind of much lower temperatures. So my new favourite is:   1.1 Ghz, HT on, [0-1 gstp 1-7]

 

And I'm smiling because I've gained a SQ boost that I had previously spent 4 figures sums to achieve by h/w ugrades.

 

 

 

👍 Thanks, went straight to HT on and core isolation on 0-1 gstp 1-7 today sounds indeed more relaxed and smooth and also seems to have backer background. 
 

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

Still trying to get some Apacer RAM for NUC8i7 to replace the Crucial memory I have but looks like COVID has shut down shipments to US?  Only seems to show up

in weird places where I don't trust shippers/customs.

On Monday 18 January I ordered this memory from Mouser, https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apacer/D2323240S004/?qs=GBLSl2AkiruWco00G6Jb1Q%3D%3D and collected it on Friday 22 January in Holland. This 8 GB ram stick replaced this type of Apacer ram 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B which was a good up-tick. This mouser ram is I believe the same ram that Nenon provided a while back. And again this ram is a really good up-tick to previous ram, depth, dynamics and smoothness are all better.

[RickyV]

4 minutes ago, genvirt said:

If I’m not mistaken this one was provided:

https://www.mouser.co.il/ProductDetail/908-D31.23185S.001
 

they are not the same kind of memory types: SO-DIMM vs UDIMM

actually I’m not very familiar with memory types, so just put attention...

My ram is 260 pin ddr4 SO-dimm for NUC’s

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

This sounds interesting.  I also have  the 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B on my NUC7i7DN, which I found to be a very worthwhile improvement over the stock 8GB RAM.

 

So you're saying that the new D23.23240S.004 8 GB Apacer was a further step above your old 4GB Apacer?

Approximately how big an improvement was that compared to the original improvement over stock?

 

Although I'm still finding that 4GB is enough for ramroot and a handful of buffered redbook albums, a bit more RAM capacity would help future-proofing.

 

This evening I will swop back to the old apacer ram to make a better comparison but my initial reaction was as is written above. I’ll report back.

[RickyV]

12 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

This sounds interesting.  I also have  the 4GB 75.B93GJ.G010B on my NUC7i7DN, which I found to be a very worthwhile improvement over the stock 8GB RAM.

 

So you're saying that the new D23.23240S.004 8 GB Apacer was a further step above your old 4GB Apacer?

Approximately how big an improvement was that compared to the original improvement over stock?

 

Although I'm still finding that 4GB is enough for ramroot and a handful of buffered redbook albums, a bit more RAM capacity would help future-proofing.

 

So I started with the old version after a week of D23 listening, depth: seems flatter, it has depth but the D23 is more homogeneous that goes also for the sound stage more homogeneous, seems bigger and more separated/ defined and fuller. 
It’s well worth the 100 euros.

Pitty mouser didn’t had 4GB Simms otherwise I would have bought two of those.