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Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

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On 5/30/2019 at 1:10 PM, RickyV said:

 

The power supply is a diy studer900, should be good for 2,5 amps. I did try a different power setting, it was on the middle setting and put on the high setting.

@RickyV Studer900 was already tested 

Seems could barely drive a 1.5 A load

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1 minute ago, luisma said:

@austinpop

Summarizing your BIOS experience, wide open with Turbo and HyperT ON and C States ON as well just adjusting minimum frequency to a fixed value like 1500 or so?

 

Yes, except - set max frequency to a fixed value. Not min.

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, except - set max frequency to a fixed value. Not min.

Thanks appreciate the prompt answer 

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2 hours ago, luisma said:

@austinpop

Summarizing your BIOS experience, wide open with Turbo and HyperT ON and C States ON as well just adjusting minimum frequency to a fixed value like 1500 or so?

 

Hi 

The problem is i still can’t switch on the turbo boost on my nuc7i7dn and do not know why. I tried on an other nuc7i7, all kinds of bios power settings, hyperT and the other performance setting off, I even tried AL but nothing worked. The problem is it cuts power just when Euphony is starting up, green standby voltage led and the white power led switch off.

Then I started to mess with the power supply. One thing I forgot with the studer900 was to change the current limiting resistor, it still was set to ~2A, so I set it to ~4A. My transformer can do 2,5A/18Vac, with turbo off I can listen for hours and the transformer gets a little warm. Still all in all it should be enough to power the nuc with turbo on I think but maybe @lmitche has an idea as to why it’s not working.

 

The turbo boost has to be on before I can play with the max frequency, right??

 

Still with the turbo off and powered by the studer900 I am really happy with Euphony Stylus sound quality. It is much better than my previous setup, all hardware and sw are different so I can’t make a good comparison.

The width and the depth of the soundstage, realism and dynamics is amazing but I am sure it can do better. I have a lot of hardware changes to make but all DIY.

For instance this beauty 

B69DB559-9D20-4D7F-8CA9-F6FD65C0C1AD.jpeg.9378f27531681b4d9a8c805b5bb3defe.jpeg

outputs 4x 20V/2A.

 

Lots of information on the studer900 power supply from really helpfully and knowledgeable people can be found here 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/297610-low-noise-pre-amp-dac-power-supply-mje15034-tl072-regulator-based-studer-900-a.html

 

I bought this studer900

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/linear-regulated-psu/regulated-linear-supply-module-op-tl072-mje15034-28v-p-12753.html


Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Clock modded FS105 v3, Clock modded Isoregen, Lush^2

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1 hour ago, RickyV said:

 

Hi 

The problem is i still can’t switch on the turbo boost on my nuc7i7dn and do not know why. I tried on an other nuc7i7, all kinds of bios power settings, hyperT and the other performance setting off, I even tried AL but nothing worked. The problem is it cuts power just when Euphony is starting up, green standby voltage led and the white power led switch off.

Then I started to mess with the power supply. One thing I forgot with the studer900 was to change the current limiting resistor, it still was set to ~2A, so I set it to ~4A. My transformer can do 2,5A/18Vac, with turbo off I can listen for hours and the transformer gets a little warm. Still all in all it should be enough to power the nuc with turbo on I think but maybe @lmitche has an idea as to why it’s not working.

 

The turbo boost has to be on before I can play with the max frequency, right??

 

Still with the turbo off and powered by the studer900 I am really happy with Euphony Stylus sound quality. It is much better than my previous setup, all hardware and sw are different so I can’t make a good comparison.

The width and the depth of the soundstage, realism and dynamics is amazing but I am sure it can do better. I have a lot of hardware changes to make but all DIY.

For instance this beauty 

B69DB559-9D20-4D7F-8CA9-F6FD65C0C1AD.jpeg.9378f27531681b4d9a8c805b5bb3defe.jpeg

outputs 4x 20V/2A.

 

Lots of information on the studer900 power supply from really helpfully and knowledgeable people can be found here 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/297610-low-noise-pre-amp-dac-power-supply-mje15034-tl072-regulator-based-studer-900-a.html

 

I bought this studer900

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/linear-regulated-psu/regulated-linear-supply-module-op-tl072-mje15034-28v-p-12753.html

 

Since you can run with Turbo ON with the SMPS brick, this does seem to be a PSU limitation. Sadly, many PSUs make bold claims, but do not cover themselves with glory when called upon to deliver anywhere close to their rated current. If your PSU cannot work with Turbo ON, then it's debatable you would get any SQ benefit from frequencies higher than the base anyway.

 

For now, your best bet may be to keep Turbo OFF until you can acquire a better PSU.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Since you can run with Turbo ON with the SMPS brick, this does seem to be a PSU limitation. Sadly, many PSUs make bold claims, but do not cover themselves with glory when called upon to deliver anywhere close to their rated current. If your PSU cannot work with Turbo ON, then it's debatable you would get any SQ benefit from frequencies higher than the base anyway.

 

For now, your best bet may be to keep Turbo OFF until you can acquire a better PSU.

 

 

 

Yes, the smps brick is rated an 4,[email protected] so we will see when my new transformer arrives if 4A is enough and if at that current the studer doesn’t get to hot. I already have a bigger heatsink on it. The FET’s max current is also 4A so I am really pushing it, we will see.

Already working on an alternative/ replacement 5A dual regulated power supply with new and improved regulator from newclassd. But that may some time to build.

I have also ordered a neutron star clock from newclassd to replace the cpu clock, if all goes well at only a few cm from the cpu.

I really have too many ideas and not enough time, frustrating sometimes as it goes to slow.

This is what I made so far 


Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Clock modded FS105 v3, Clock modded Isoregen, Lush^2

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IMG_1446.thumb.JPG.61cb827fb7ecc8803d319e009d029629.JPGIMG_1460.thumb.JPG.0726b69a7b9ef4f4b52dbbfcee5da2af.JPGIMG_1441.thumb.JPG.37ca444f9f491a8201bd36a898323c19.JPG


Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus

Clock modded FS105 v3, Clock modded Isoregen, Lush^2

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On 6/2/2019 at 12:34 PM, austinpop said:

 

The whole local storage question still remains a matter of compromises. We have disparate data points from folks who have tried different approaches:

  • @romaz in his experiments feels conventional NVMe SSDs to be particularly harsh sounding
  • Others have had good success with HDDs in an external enclosure, with both USB and the drive separately powered with 5V and 12V PSUs.

The rationale for Optane was based on the fact that you need something to boot the OS, and the Optane SSD (note - we're not talking about using it as a cache, just a small SSD) has the potential to be less harsh because of these metrics - per specs:

  • Idle power: 8mW
  • Active power: 2.5W

The rationale as the OS drive is based on the fact that the drive is either always idle after boot - say in the case of AL with ramroot, or mostly idle, since over time the OS drive has very low I/O utilization. So power consumption is closer to the idle value, and by implication, harshness is lower. Music drives are different, since their utilization (and hence the %time they are active and in active power mode) is higher.

 

In contrast, the quintessential "noisy" SSD, the Samsung EVO 860 is rated:

  • Idle power: 50mW
  • Active power: 4.5W

With these bounds, the specs of the H10 are interesting:

  • Idle power: 12-13mW
  • Active power: 5.3-5.8W

Based on specs alone, I would be inclined to trust the H10 more as an OS drive, and less as a music drive. At which point, the whole point of H10 becomes moot in a music server.

 

Bottom line - I don't see anything with H10 that tempts me to change my own strategy, which is:

  • Optane M10 32GB SSD OS drive
  • All music on a NAS somewhere else on the network.

With that said, if some curious mind has the means and stamina to conduct a listening comparison with various storage strategies, you'd be doing us all a service. I'm prepared to change if a better sounding solution emerges.

 

Am I reading this wrong or this is outdated info?:

Below states the optane actually consumes most power in idle & active states ??

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11210/the-intel-optane-memory-ssd-review-32gb-of-kaby-lake-caching/7

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Regarding custom builds by SimplyNUC, the online options for Porcoolpine apply to the US website. And this has limited options.

 

In the UK (and probably other non-US countries), you can only order Porcoolpine (and probably other newest models) by engaging with a SimplyNUC salesperson - in which case you can request whatever you want and they will provide a quote as long as it's sensible and doable.

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On 5/26/2019 at 10:38 PM, bobfa said:

This is moving very very quickly.  A couple of folks have gone back to single box systems replacing reclocked NUCs, etc.  Look for posts from @romaz and @austinpop

on several other threads. Do not rush into this.  

 

Note there are folks like  TotallySilentPC who can build your custom hardware.  Or SimplyNUC that put a NUC into a fanless case for a reasonable price.

 

 

Over on the "Massive" thread, there are some summaries linked on the first post.

 

 

 

 

@bobfa, I'm definitely going to take your sage advice after all and not rush into this, after seeing these early comments on TLS DS-1 & server:

 

 

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I have still been playing music with the custom hardware that I have assembled. I have really enjoyed learning and testing all the different hardware and software.  I am still fine tuning my system.  I have started looking at USB cards.  I have started with the Matrix Audio card:

3E14ACA4-B328-4806-BCEE-86E82911B1DD.thumb.jpeg.548a264ce30ada7e131e4f97252d98b4.jpeg

 

I have only had the card in my system for 24 hours but it really does make an interesting set of differences.  I will let it settle in some more before I try to A/B and report.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheAttorney said:

Here are some notes from my NUC/Stylus build experience:

 

Introduction:

I’ve been using a W10 laptop music server, running Roon (previously JRiver and HQP). Not the greatest H/W start point, but this “stopgap” was considerably improved by the microRendu 1.4 and ISORegen combo, both powered later by PH SR7 (3 x single-regulated rails).  And I’ve given up waiting for the dust to settle on the various AS experimental threads to determine which is the best consensus supa dupa server.  So time to take the plunge right now.

 

My mantra for the new server is KISS & DTS (Ditch the Spaghetti), whilst still getting substantially improved SQ. Oh, and keep the costs down. So my new server will be resolutely single box. I realise that a low cost KISS & DTS approach isn’t going to achieve the best possible SQ, but I can use this as a learning curve and stepping stone to the biggie supa dupa server in a year or two’s time – and hopefully I won’t even feel it necessary to further upgrade anyway.  Maybe “near end-game” will be end-game enough for me?

 

NUC/Stylus installation and setup:

 

The Porcoolpine fanless 7i7DN-based NUC arrived with Ubuntu pre-installed  on a 32GB Optane drive (pre-configured as SSD).

 

Considering I was a NUC/linux-newbie, the Euphony installation went better than expected. My start point was that I had a mouse, but no monitor or keyboard, so I plugged the NUC into my TV’s hdmi input to see what would happen and was delighted to find that the BIOS screen has a basic level of GUI – including a virtual keyboard, so I was able to make BIOS changes without having to purchase a dedicated monitor or keyboard (I have no intention of mucking about with BIOS changes every other day).

 

My Porcoolpine included the default WIFI&Bluetooth card with external antenna. I activated WIFI from Euphony’s Expert settings and was again delighted to find that it immediately connected to my broadband/router in another room. Which meant I was immediately able to control Euphony from my laptop. Euphony doesn’t formally support WIFI at this stage – the feature is in Expert settings for users to try at their own risk. This is a great result for me because I now have no switches/extenders/ LAN cables in my system  – there are several  options here to improve network SQ, but none of them pass the KISS & DTS criteria. The key steps I made:

 

1.       Plug 32GB USB stick into laptop and download Trial Euphony/Stylus onto USB stick

2.       Boot Euphony/Stylus into my laptop, with direct USB connection to Hugo M-scaler/DAVE. SQ is OK, but definitely improved by ISORegen, so I keep the IR for all remaining steps

3.       Plug USB stick into NUC and reboot

4.       Boot-from-USB was ignored, so I connected the NUC to TV and change BIOS to move USB boot priority above Optane drive

5.       Whilst in BIOS, check that speedstep and hyperthreading are enabled (they were)

6.       Now NUC boots Euphony from USB stick (which is now the “Euphony Drive”)

7.       Copy some music files from laptop to Euphony Drive (I can get dozens of my favourite albums onto this 32GB stick)

8.       Listen to music for a couple of days. Result: improved detail & dynamics than before, but  bit ragged in the higher frequencies. So, it’s promising, but not a clear win

9.       Replace stock 19v SMPS with PH SR7’s 19v 7A rail and PH 6A silver DC cable. Result: Absolutely FANTASTIC! Simply better at every possible level, and there’s no going back now.

 

Next steps:

10.   Purchase the full Euphony Stylus license and install on the Optane Drive

11.   Put my music files onto a 256GB USB stick (all my redbook compressed FLAC files fit easily with room to spare) and directly connect to NUC USB socket . Then compare SQ of files on Optane versus files on USB stick.

12.   Do something about the NUC’s DC power socket (see below).

13.   Live with this as long as possible and try hard not to succumb to upgrade-itis, unless it conforms to KISS & DTS. So, replacing one cable with a better one is allowed. Adding anything extra will be resisted – especially if that thing requires a power supply.

 

Initial thoughts on Euphony Stylus:

No surprise that the UI feels rather clunky after Roon’s, but I’m slowly getting used to it. The album and artist direct links to LAST.FM are not as integrated as Roon’s, but not a bad alternative. E.g. LAST.FM will give me loads more artist photos etc compared to the often-cropped single Roon photo.

 

In Expert settings, you can choose max/min CPU frequency, which doesn’t always work, as others have noted. But it works enough to do this test: Any setting above CPU’s 1.9 Ghz baseline gives you near this CPU’s max frequency of 4.2 Ghz. But setting max frequency to 1.9GHz does set actual frequency to exactly 1.9Ghz. I preferred the more detailed and dynamic max frequency setting.

 

When set to max frequency, the NUC AC power consumption hovers around 15-18W, irrespective of whether music is actually playing. This isn’t very much really (I don’t do any DSP on the server).  But if you never switch off your server, and would like some form of standby option, then setting max frequency to 1.9 Ghz reduces power consumption to 6-8W, as well as reducing the NUC temperature.

 

Initial thoughts on Porcoolpine:

I’ll post some impressions in due course in the Porcoolpine thread, but for now, this little cutie is all good apart from one issue:

 

The DC input socket requires a not-very-common 3-ish mm ID, 5.5 OD barrel plug. So neither of my existing 2.1 ID and 2.5 ID plugs would fit. Luckily, my old iFi 9V power supply came with a bunch of converter plugs, and one of them successfully converted my 2.1 ID plug to 3-ish ID. But an el cheapo converter plug will do no favours to SQ, so any suggestions of what best to do here?

 

I’d rather not mess up my PH silver DC cable with a non-standard plug because of future flexibility. So my default solution is to replace the NUC DC socket with one suitable for 2.1 ID plug. Another option is to make use of the 7i7DN’s onboard molex 2x2 micro socket in some way, but that would entail drilling a hole into the NUC enclosure.

 

 

Congratulations on taking the plunge! I'm glad you achieved a significant improvement in SQ. Unless you want to chase the asymptotic "last drop" of SQ, your SR-7-powered NUC should stand you in good stead for quite some time to come.

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:47 AM, TheAttorney said:

Here are some notes from my NUC/Stylus build experience:

I am excited to hear more.  Can you post a couple of pix of your hardware?    Where exactly have you landed on the CPU frequency settings?  

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