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Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

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7 hours ago, motberg said:

I wonder what would happen if you power the EPS with a separate LPS ....

I have my audio PC setup like that - ATX 20 pin with ATX LPS, and then a separate 10A 12V LPS for the EPS (Ghent cable)

 

Yes, every step listed below improves SQ:

  • powering EPS with a separate rail (this is what I do with my HDPlex 400. I had Larry mod the separate 19V rail to 12V, and I use a Ghent cable to power EPS from this rail)
  • powering EPS with a separate (HDPlex) PSU. Roy has tried this, and reported an improvement over just a separate rail (as expected)
  • moving up to a better quality PSU - like the SR7!

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5 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, every step listed below improves SQ:

  • powering EPS with a separate rail (this is what I do with my HDPlex 400. I had Larry mod the separate 19V rail to 12V, and I use a Ghent cable to power EPS from this rail)
  • powering EPS with a separate (HDPlex) PSU. Roy has tried this, and reported an improvement over just a separate rail (as expected)
  • moving up to a better quality PSU - like the SR7!

 

Ahh...the unobtonium SR7 comes into every other discussions 🙂 You lucky chaps!.

 

Can anyone tell if the differences from other good quality PSU is like splitting hairs or the improvements are massive ? How much in terms of % are we talking about ? I am trying to guesstimate how much I am missing 🙁

 

On the other hand (and playing devil's advocate), maybe all these money spent into motherboard, CPU, chassis, Network/USB audiophile card, unobtonium SR7, expensive DC cables and endless tweaking is not worth than getting a reference server like a Auralic G2 which will mostly cost about the same. Anybody compare yet ? 

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2 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Ahh...the unobtonium SR7 comes into every other discussions 🙂 You lucky chaps!.

 

Can anyone tell if the differences from other good quality PSU is like splitting hairs or the improvements are massive ? How much in terms of % are we talking about ? I am trying to guesstimate how much I am missing 🙁

 

On the other hand (and playing devil's advocate), maybe all these money spent into motherboard, CPU, chassis, Network/USB audiophile card, unobtonium SR7, expensive DC cables and endless tweaking is not worth than getting a reference server like a Auralic G2 which will mostly cost about the same. Anybody compare yet ? 

 

There are other PSUs that get close.  One of the benefits of the SR7 is that it has a higher amperage than some other supplies.  This can be a deal breaker depending on what you're trying to power.

 

I don't know what the G2 costs, but the nice thing about buying components is that you can upgrade pieces as needed instead of everything at once.


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Linear Solution OCXO switch-> Custom 2016 Server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> AL NUC NA->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

There are other PSUs that get close.  One of the benefits of the SR7 is that it has a higher amperage than some other supplies.  This can be a deal breaker depending on what you're trying to power.

 

Like ? Anybody makes similar higher amperage rails that gets close ?

 

 

4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

I don't know what the G2 costs, but the nice thing about buying components is that you can upgrade pieces as needed instead of everything at once.

 

The G2 costs about $4000. Yes, I know what you are saying but if you look closely we are upgrading every component over time (yesterday it was Celeron, now its a NUC, tomorrow its an i9) - it just comes at an installment rather than one upgrade. I think the interest for most of us here is the never-ending tweaking part (be it through s/w or h/w) and delight of achieving something of our own and that is what drives this interest.

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35 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Ahh...the unobtonium SR7 comes into every other discussions 🙂 You lucky chaps!.

 

Can anyone tell if the differences from other good quality PSU is like splitting hairs or the improvements are massive ? How much in terms of % are we talking about ? I am trying to guesstimate how much I am missing 🙁

 

On the other hand (and playing devil's advocate), maybe all these money spent into motherboard, CPU, chassis, Network/USB audiophile card, unobtonium SR7, expensive DC cables and endless tweaking is not worth than getting a reference server like a Auralic G2 which will mostly cost about the same. Anybody compare yet ? 

 

To get philosophical here, any reader/participant of these threads needs to ... "know thyself."

 

Are you (or ye) a tinkerer/experimenter, or do you like solutions where the goodness is just baked in. If you're the latter, then you should know that what you're seeking is not going to be found on these threads. We're constantly experimenting, refining, changing. This drives some people crazy. If this is you, then ... know that.

 

Part of the reason I go down this experimental route is out of necessity. If all these issues were well understood and offered in commercial products, I'd have no need to do any of this stuff. I do think we are ahead of the commercial pack when it comes to SQ. And certainly when it comes to bang for buck. A lot of these ideas are incorporated into innovative products like the Statement or the Pink Faun. But these are expensive products. And they still lock you into their choices. What if you're a Statement or PF owner who wants to try Euphony?

 

So yeah - different strokes for different folks.

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2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

To get philosophical here, any reader/participant of these threads needs to ... "know thyself."

 

Are you (or ye) a tinkerer/experimenter, or do you like solutions where the goodness is just baked in. If you're the latter, then you should know that what you're seeking is not going to be found on these threads. We're constantly experimenting, refining, changing. This drives some people crazy. If this is you, then ... know that.

 

Part of the reason I go down this experimental route is out of necessity. If all these issues were well understood and offered in commercial products, I'd have no need to do any of this stuff. I do think we are ahead of the commercial pack when it comes to SQ. And certainly when it comes to bang for buck. A lot of these ideas are incorporated into innovative products like the Statement or the Pink Faun. But these are expensive products. And they still lock you into their choices. What if you're a Statement or PF owner who wants to try Euphony?

 

So yeah - different strokes for different folks.

 

I agree with all your points. The bigger problem for me is not the tweaking part (I know I can do that very well) but some components like the SR7 that is not easily/readily available. I have no problem putting down the money and getting it in couple months or so but waiting for more than a year is just next to paranoia.

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2 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

I agree with all your points. The bigger problem for me is not the tweaking part (I know I can do that very well) but some components like the SR7 that is not easily/readily available. I have no problem putting down the money and getting it in couple months or so but waiting for more than a year is just next to paranoia.

 

I don’t disagree. If there is an alternative to the SR7 with equal or better SQ and better availability, I want to know about it.

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What I wanted to say earlier is if I can't have SR7, then its clear that I can't have the best DIY digital chain. What is my next best alternative - can it be a commercial server like a G2 whose cost would be somewhat similar to DIY server and have the same or better SQ ? If the answer is NO, then its clear that DIY is still a better path with whatever PSU you can afford. If the answer if Yes, then why not ? The question then becomes do we like tweaking more or just want to relax and enjoy the music 😊

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@romaz or @austinpop before I invest in m-ITX solution with i8 or i9, wanted to check if you have compared the m-ITX vs the NUC7i7 powered by the same power supply, maybe an hdplex running Euphony/Stylus ? does the powerful CPU still sounds better if you are not powering it with SR7 ? You are the only guys with SR7 and can do a meaningful comparison 🙂

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54 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Like ? Anybody makes similar higher amperage rails that gets close ?

 

 

 

The G2 costs about $4000. Yes, I know what you are saying but if you look closely we are upgrading every component over time (yesterday it was Celeron, now its a NUC, tomorrow its an i9) - it just comes at an installment rather than one upgrade. I think the interest for most of us here is the never-ending tweaking part (be it through s/w or h/w) and delight of achieving something of our own and that is what drives this interest.

 

15 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I don’t disagree. If there is an alternative to the SR7 with equal or better SQ and better availability, I want to know about it.

 

11 minutes ago, Dev said:

What I wanted to say earlier is if I can't have SR7, then its clear that I can't have the best DIY digital chain. What is my next best alternative - can it be a commercial server like a G2 whose cost would be somewhat similar to DIY server and have the same or better SQ ? If the answer is NO, then its clear that DIY is still a better path with whatever PSU you can afford. If the answer if Yes, then why not ? The question then becomes do we like tweaking more or just want to relax and enjoy the music 😊

 

You can talk to Sean Jacobs or Mattijs de Vries.  Each are involved in building PSUs for companies selling prebuilt servers.

 

As Rajiv pointed out, part of this hobby is the involvement in tweaking components and constant discovery.  Some of us just like doing that.  No harm or foul either way.  A lot of what we're trying is experimental so not a hardened, out of the box solution.

 


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Linear Solution OCXO switch-> Custom 2016 Server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> AL NUC NA->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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I believe the SR7 is unobtainable at this point. New orders are no longer accepted.

There are other good supplies on the market that are easy to get. But they don't have the 10A rating.

https://thelinearsolution.com/reference1.html - 6A

http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk/home/power-supplies/dc3-power-supply - 5A

 

What I am wondering (and just posted in the other thread) is if we can use multiple rails of the above mentioned power supplies (or others) to independently power up each EPS pin by a separate DC rail:

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

I have mostly played with low powered CPUs / motherboard, but following the latest trends, I am curious to try a combination like that with the i9-9900K CPU. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming that the EPS connector is where the most power is consumed on those motherboards. Two questions about that:

1. How many amps do we need to sufficiently power up a CPU with TDP of 95 Watts for Euphony? Romaz - are you using a 10A SR7 rail? Have you tried a 6A rail? 

2. Can we power up the EPS connectors with multiple independent DC rails on this motherboard? The keyword is "independent", because if each +12V on the connector is in parallel with the others, we are essentially paralleling multiple power supplies, and we know by experiments with paralleling multiple LPS2.1's that unless they are closely matched, this is far than ideal (if it even works). 

 

I am tempted to buy one of these gaming ASRock Z390 motherboards and trace the power distribution, but with so many layers on the PCB it would be a crazy task.

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14 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I don’t disagree. If there is an alternative to the SR7 with equal or better SQ and better availability, I want to know about it.

The tricky part to know whether there is an equal or better than DR SR7 power supply available with better lead time is for someone having or access to a DR SR7 to do a comparison, which makes this piece of knowledge quite challenging.  I hope to receive a new custom build dual rail 12V supply soon with top tier components and designs, but without access to a DR SR7, it won't be easy to know if this supply can be an alternate unit.

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I just read on their web site something about 12V @10A. So yes, that might be a good option.

SJ DC3 is higher on my list but limited to 5A. I've heard people comparing the SJ DC3 with Paul Hynes and ranking it higher than the SR4 but lower than the SR7. That's what the Statement uses (on their 6W TDP Pentium N4200).

Perhaps several 5A SJ rails might do a good job powering a 95W TDP CPU?

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5 hours ago, Dev said:

Like ? Anybody makes similar higher amperage rails that gets close ?

 

Give 120/240VAC to our choke-filtered JS-2 and it will happily crank out 7.6 amps at 12V all day long without breaking a sweat. Available and in demand all the time too.  Just sayin'... :D

 

Now to try again to get Euphony to boot on a Mac.  Apparently that is not supported--even though their web page lists instructions for creating a boot stick on a Mac.

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5 hours ago, Dev said:

Anybody makes similar higher amperage rails that gets close ?

Farad says on their website

A 12A (15-50F capacity) version is currently on the test bank.

 

I asked Mattijs when this would be available.  His answer

The 12A is still in design, I think it will be available for the end of this year.


NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10/HDPLEX 200W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> ISO REGEN/LPS-1.2 --> iFi iDSD Micro --> Focal CMS50's 

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10 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

In Euphony's settings, after you enable Stylus as your player, you should be able to select HQPlayer as your upsampler.  There's a limited selection of parameters provided.  You can also direct HQPlayer to an NAA in this mode.

 

Euphony uses HQPlayer Embedded.  I believe it's v4 but have not confirmed this.  There's no plan for them to use the Desktop version and it will require a separate license or else you're limited to 30 minute sessions, then need to restart the service.

Yes, I understand and have done that. It is the language that needs clarification, just to let the readers understand:

 

So tp clarify:

Stylus + HQplayer embedded really means you are using HQplayer, not Stylus. You do pull the music from the Stylus music library, but otherwise there is nothing else to do with stylus.

 

Note there is SQ difference between HQPlayer embedded vs stylus player alone for Upsampling PCM (note stylus alone cannot do PCM--> DSD or DSD upsampling)  

I prefer Stylus as the HQplayer tends to give too smooth a sound, the high freq are mutes, though this could be due to my filter setting issue (no time to figure that out right now)

 

 

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6 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I don’t disagree. If there is an alternative to the SR7 with equal or better SQ and better availability, I want to know about it.

I want to see what PinkFaun has to offer. They do recommend their own LPS.

 

http://www.faradpowersupplies.com

 

 

(addendum: I believe someone above has mentioned Farad LPS already, likely the same thing)

 

Good value it seems, but no multiple rails on single unit which they think is bad for sound. 

 

Mojo supposedly have very nice LPS too. 

 

Or

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3 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Give 120/240VAC to our choke-filtered JS-2 and it will happily crank out 7.6 amps at 12V all day long without breaking a sweat. Available and in demand all the time too.  Just sayin'... :D

 

Now to try again to get Euphony to boot on a Mac.  Apparently that is not supported--even though their web page lists instructions for creating a boot stick on a Mac.

The problem is that all macbooks with T2 chip (2017 onwards) cannot use Euphony reboot. Macbooks too old are not compatible with V3 boot so I am not sure if there are many MACs that can use euphony now.  MACs are obsolete for computer audio now. Shame on them!  Not sure if Steve Jobs would have done better.... 

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10 hours ago, Dev said:

 

Ahh...the unobtonium SR7 comes into every other discussions 🙂 You lucky chaps!.

 

Can anyone tell if the differences from other good quality PSU is like splitting hairs or the improvements are massive ? How much in terms of % are we talking about ? I am trying to guesstimate how much I am missing 🙁

 

On the other hand (and playing devil's advocate), maybe all these money spent into motherboard, CPU, chassis, Network/USB audiophile card, unobtonium SR7, expensive DC cables and endless tweaking is not worth than getting a reference server like a Auralic G2 which will mostly cost about the same. Anybody compare yet ? 

One of the reason for doing DIY Computer audio is that you can build a device or number of devices to your specific needs. Probably not so much about Bang for the buck/cost effectiveness.  I for e.g could not find a server that could do DSD/DXD and multi-channel (at least not sure if the commercial devices could do them all back then)  So tinkering with software was the starting point -e.g trying audirvanna and J River/HQplayer etc. and finally I arrived at Euphony that meets my needs of simplicity and function.  

With your own server you can constantly upgrade too, e.g I may get a I2S bridge or optical bridge etc... or upgrade the internal clocks...

Change software, OS etc...

The problem is that these ready made commercial devices are already out of date the moment they are launched on the market. So spending > $2000 on a device that will become obsolete sooner than you pay off your credit card is not ideal.   The digital tech are advancing day by day, it is not like dealing with vinyl where the technology is already established. 

E.g. now when I check the commercial devices they can finally do DSD/DXD but a  yr back most could not, but now a PC server can do DSD512! So again they are lagging behind. We are using 4-6 or 8 core CPUs, upsampling, PCM-DSD conversion, but the commercial ones are doing duo core CPUs (maybe some do quad now,? at least last I checked).......

 

Sorry to digress. But back on topic: the Euphony is really a great step to get into computer audio. I really like it. Can use as single box or if you want to be complex you can do Roon etc... 

It's library management sucks though, I have not checked out the V3 yet, is that any better in library management ?

 

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3 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

The problem is that all macbooks with T2 chip (2017 onwards) cannot use Euphony reboot. Macbooks too old are not compatible with V3 boot so I am not sure if there are many MACs that can use euphony now.

 

As I indicated previously, none of my Macs have T2 chip and I boot them with other Linux OS thumb drives all the time—including ArchLinux builds. So it is not a hardware issue, rather something with Euphony.  Yet the very same Euphony stick boots my NUC just fine.

 

Zeljko gave me instructions on a utility to load and to patch the stick with to overcome the issue:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55916-euphony-os-wstylus-player-setup-and-issues-thread/?do=findComment&comment=961476

I’m just not sure that I want to bother at this point.  I booted my highly-tweaked NUC with a Euphony stick and played some tracks.  Did not sound near as good as AL/NAA, and I’m not looking to build an exotic server to get the best from it—especially since the Stylus player is too rudimentary for my taste (and yet Roon goes too far in the other direction for me).  I know, I am really tough to please. But I am loving the SQ I’m getting from HQ Player Embedded (on Mac mini w/JS-2) feeding NAA (on AL/NUC w/UltraCap LPS-1.2). Now I’m just trying get HQPe to scan a network shared SMB volume and I’m on the hunt for an iTunes-like front-end that works with HQPe.

 

Sorry for the off-topic.  I do appreciate what Euphony is trying to create and Zeljko has been very responsive.  All fun stuff! B|

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17 hours ago, Dev said:

...do we like tweaking more or just want to relax and enjoy the music 😊

..or tweak, relax and listen to the music 😎


Tidal Streaming only: ATL DC Blocker > Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > Sine SA5 Cryo 5 power stripAqvox 8 port network switch NUC Roonserver (16gb Audiolinux Headless RAMboot, Akasa Fanless case) NUC Roon endpoint (4gb Audiolinux Headless RAMboot, Akasa Fanless case) > USPCB > ISO Regen (Battery powered) > Sonore Ultradigital (powered by LPS-1) > PS Audio Directstream Junior Dac > Decware SE84UFO3 Mono Amps > Omega Super Alnico Monitors.

NUCs powered by 2x Paul Hynes SR4s & switch powered by modded Teradak DC30W & LT3045 voltage regulators & PoE Quad Cat DC cables

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6 hours ago, Superdad said:

 Did not sound near as good as AL/NAA, and I’m not looking to build an exotic server to get the best from it—especially since the Stylus player is too rudimentary for my taste (and yet Roon goes too far in the other direction for me).  I know, I am really tough to please. But I am loving the SQ I’m getting from HQ Player Embedded (on Mac mini w/JS-2) feeding NAA (on AL/NUC w/UltraCap LPS-1.2). Now I’m just trying get HQPe to scan a network shared SMB volume and I’m on the hunt for an iTunes-like front-end that works with HQPe.

 

What you're looking to do is normal, not hard to please.  I'm sure you've already tried JRiver but if you're looking for an iTunes like interface that's it.  There are some integration capabilities with it and HQPlayer, but I wish that was more like the Roon to HQPlayer experience.  Regardless, it's a great interface with a cloud music storage presence so you can listen to your collection on the go.


Digital chain: Synology DS1815+ -> Linear Solution OCXO switch-> Custom 2016 Server (sCLK-EX modified motherboard, Mutec REF 10)-> AL NUC NA->  Holo Spring L3 -> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H, JL Fathom sub

Power: Paul Hynes SR7, Uptone LPS-1.2, sPS-500, Topaz 91001-31 Isolation Transformer

Analog chain: VPI Prime with Ortofon Quintet Black cart -> Simaudio Neo 310LP-> Audio Research LS28-> Benchmark AHB2 -> Paradigm Persona 9H

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On 5/28/2019 at 12:17 AM, austinpop said:

So bottom line - to those experiencing harshness with Euphony - try tuning the Max frequency and see what you think. Please report back.

Hi Rajiv,

I've tried your suggestion and set min CPU frequency to 1400 and max to 2400Mhz on my NUC7PJYH. When I check CPU readings in Euphony all 4 CPUs are at 1.5Ghz. This does help reduce harshness, and needs more listening but I must say I'm enjoying Stylus with it's fuller sound. .. Thanks! 


Tidal Streaming only: ATL DC Blocker > Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > Sine SA5 Cryo 5 power stripAqvox 8 port network switch NUC Roonserver (16gb Audiolinux Headless RAMboot, Akasa Fanless case) NUC Roon endpoint (4gb Audiolinux Headless RAMboot, Akasa Fanless case) > USPCB > ISO Regen (Battery powered) > Sonore Ultradigital (powered by LPS-1) > PS Audio Directstream Junior Dac > Decware SE84UFO3 Mono Amps > Omega Super Alnico Monitors.

NUCs powered by 2x Paul Hynes SR4s & switch powered by modded Teradak DC30W & LT3045 voltage regulators & PoE Quad Cat DC cables

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