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Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread


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On 3/31/2019 at 4:15 AM, mikicasellas said:

I really appreciate the sweat, effort and money put on this findings to later be shared to us all.

 

 I have been using AL/NUC7PJYH as Roon endpoint and MacMini as Roon server thanks to @rickca  @lmitche @romaz and@austinpop 

 

Although i'm a nob in these hardware/software territories, i have learned a little more, and for me this Euphony OS arrives with great expectations (thanks @bobfa)

 

And because the people from Euphony consider that "one machine to rule them all" with their OS, I'm considering building a fanless server/endpoint like the one Rajiv and Romaz have suggested (Intel 8700, Asrock H370) where i have the flexibility of adding a i2s PCIE card (my DAC is supposed to have the best sound via i2s, although i don't know how BIG the improvement would be having the i2s card instead of feeding my DAC via USB and the adding cost of that card alone is about $400), OR just a simple NUC7DNHE using a Paul Hynes SR4 to power it.

 

In either case if future findings show that two machines are better, i will still have the AL/NUC7PJYH to use as an endpoint.

 

Any suggestions to which path would be the smartest to choose ?

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

I think the powerful server suggested above may only be relevant to users of Roon with a Squeezelite endpoint. We don't yet know if Euphony works just as well with a NUC type device vs a powerful server. Someone needs to do the actual comparison as what may work well with one OS may not translate to another.

 

Euphony was designed as a one box solution which has a lot of appeal yet many here are insisting on using it in a server/renderer configuration. As above, I am just not sure if this has actually been tested as it seems to be assumed that a 2 box setup is superior.

 

If one already has a Roon licence and enjoys the user interface then I understand.

However if Stylus is not terrible and sounds as good, those without a Roon licence could potentially put resources elsewhere to improve their setup further.

 

Can someone with the resources please test these 2 issues and advise.

 

Cheers,

 

Geoff

 

 

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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Thanks bobfa. 

I look forward to your observations. 

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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4 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, of course. This is only for those who want to experiment, and know the pitfalls and risks.

 

The key is to know how much physical RAM is in your box. Then go to "Temp/CPU" to check memory utilization. Based on that, you get a sense of free memory, so you know what you have to play with. In the example above, we are allocating:

  1. 2GB for input stream
  2. 2GB for output buffer
  3. 50MB for ALSA buffer

Feel free to experiment, and post findings!

 

Hi Rajiv,

 

Forgive my ignorance but why does 2GB have fewer digits than 50MB?

 

Geoff

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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11 hours ago, mozes said:

I reached the same conclusion on my system even with the tX-USBexp. I settled on LMS-->StylusEP. This takes away the harsh edges on the highs. 

 

Hi mozes,

 

What machine are LMS and Stylus EP running on?

 

Geoff

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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  • 2 months later...

Hi All,

 

I finally managed to get Euphony running on my NUC7PJYH after using AL for some months.

Unfortunately I can only run it in Squeezelite mode as my Uptone LPS 1.2 is not powerful enough to power Stylus with a USB drive attached.

Still sounds good with Macmini running AL LMS as server.

Have 8GB of RAM in the NUC and have setup ram buffers as suggested previously on pg. 9 my Rajiv.

Can someone help me setup CPU isolation for the NUC which has 4 cores.

Thanks in advance

 

Geoff

 

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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11 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

With LMS on the Mini, you should be able to run StylusEP on the NUC instead of SqueezeLite, and I find StylusEP to sound better. It also presents as a Squeezebox, just like SqueezeLite.

 

I also seem to remember that Željko implemented a distributed mode in Stylus. If so, you can also try running Stylus on Euphony on you Mini, and then StylusEP on your NUC. This would be better sounding than LMS, in my experience.

 

See what works and what you think.

 

 

Are you running with hyperthreading enabled or disabled? Either way, without entering any values, first just hit Apply next to the CPU isolation field in Expert Settings. In the resulting screen, cut and paste the output here. Based on that, I can suggest an isolation setting to try.

 

Thanks Rajiv.

 

I am now trying StylusEP.

 

As for the Squeezelite buffers, the suggested settings are o longer "sticking".

I have 8Gb RAM and what used to be 79% usage is now 4%.

 

Here is the screen shot of the CPU isolation as well.

 

Cheers,

 

G

Euphony2.jpeg

Euphony.jpeg

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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12 hours ago, austinpop said:

I also seem to remember that Željko implemented a distributed mode in Stylus. If so, you can also try running Stylus on Euphony on you Mini, and then StylusEP on your NUC. This would be better sounding than LMS, in my experience.

 

 

I believe this scenario would ultimately require x2 Euponhy licences.

I'm not sure if I want to use the distributed method long term particularly if Zeljko doesn't think it is "necessary" given the underlying design principles of Euphony.

When my PH SR7 returns from repair I will be able to run Euphony Stylus on a standalone NUC/Macmini.

Has there been any trials to indicate the distributed mode is better?

 

G

 

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

 

The point under discussion here is whether the software enables you to do either. Most music software does. Examples: Roon Core + Bridge, LMS + Squeezelite, HQPlayer + NAA.

Stylus was originally designed to be monolithic, and it was until recently only an option on a standalone machine. The repackaging of Stylus occurred in two steps. People like me  who liked the SQ of Stylus, but were addicted to the UX (user experience) of Roon, were asking Željko if there was a way to make Stylus as a Roon endpoint. This led him to repackage the player portion of Stylus - i.e. StylusEP - and make it accessible using the SlimProto protocol used by LMS and Squeezelite. Having done so, he took the next logical step of enabling remote endpoints on the server piece of Stylus.

 

 

 

Hi Rajiv,

 

Do I recall correctly reading that you use the distributed setup when "grazing" but Stylus monolithic when listening seriously?

This implies Stylus is better in monolithic setup; at least in your system?

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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Hi All,

 

I have a few WAV files in my library.

Euphony seems to have trouble playing them and skips to the next "playable" track.

Has anybody else had this issue?

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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10 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I'm not sure to what you're referring when you say "distributed" vs. "monolithic" setup.

 

Let me clarify. My current music server HW is standalone, i.e. I use a single DAC-attached machine. So my point about grazing had only to do with software. When I'm grazing, I use "Roon+StylusEP," running on the one machine. For serious listening, I switch over to Stylus, which also runs on one machine.

 

If by distributed you're referring to Stylus on the server and StylusEP on the endpoint, I don't use that mode obviously, since that requires 2 machines. Stated differently, on a single server, there is no such thing as "Stylus+StylusEP."

 

Is that what you're asking, or did I misunderstand your question?

 

Thanks or clarifying.

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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At the moment I run AL on my Macmini server and Euphony on my NUC7PJYH.

 

I tried Stylus EP but found long pauses between tracks and new tracks take 10-20sec to load depending on file size.

I noticed that memory usage was only 4% and it is not adjustable.

 

Things run more smoothly using Stylus Squeezlite and the buffers are adjustable and it so happens that 79% of 8Gb is used with my settings.

 

From this I surmised that Stylus EP doesn't use the RAM in my NUC and is more reliant on AL/Macmini to preload files which I am not sure I can adjust.

 

Could be wrong.

 

In any case in my system there is not much difference in performance.

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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On 8/26/2019 at 12:08 AM, austinpop said:

 

Hi Geoff,

 

The above are OSes. What music software do you run on:

  1. the server
  2. the NUC endpoint?

 

 

This isn't my experience at all with StylusEP. Are you loading music files from a very slow device - like a USB stick or a USB 2.0 drive? Also, what network speed are you running? (1Gbps, or 100Mbps, or 10Mbps)?

 

 

Yes, StylusEP does not preallocate large buffers like squeezelite, that I've used extensively, as you know. That notwithstanding, to my ears StylusEP sounds better than SL with large buffers, without the annoying glitchiness that plagues the SL configuration.

 

 

Ultimately, it's what you hear in your system that counts, so fair enough. But I'm puzzled by the behavior you mentioned, as it's not my experience at all, and suggests you may have some configuration issues.

 

Thanks Rajiv,

 

I am using AL/LMS on my Macmini server and Euphony/SQL on my NUC; the latter on trial.

I was previously using AL/SQL on my NUC as well.

I would like to properly trial Euphony Stylus EP but it makes LMS slow and unresponsive.

My music is on a USB 3.1 HDD attached to my Macmini.

I am not sure how to check my network speed but my Macmini is directly connected to my NUC via an ethernet cable (legacy of the "bridge"connection)😁

The NUC however works fine and just like AL/SQL when I use Euphony/SQL.

As stated previously, I ultimately plan to use Euphony Stylus on a single machine but my Uptone LPS 1.2 won't power the NUC with the USB drive attached. I'm still waiting for my PHSR7 to return.😪

 

Thanks again for taking the time to help. 

 

Cheers,

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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  • 3 months later...

Hi All,

 

Some advice please on setup.

 

I am using a NUC7PJYH as a standalone player with Stylus.

I am currently booting from USB.

I don't have a SSD in my NUC having read some negative comments about noise.

With the Ramroot option now available, I am considering inserting the SSD so I can eject the USB boot drive and use the "cache" function.

As I understand it, as I am using Stylus I can't currently eject the USB drive without losing accessing to my library which is currently connected to the NUC via USB HDD.

Is anybody using a similar configuration?

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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10 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Hi Geoff,

 

Are you booting from a USB stick, and then your music files are on a separate USB HDD? Just wanted to understand your configuration. There are some considerations with running a music server like Stylus or Roon Core while booted off a USB stick if you want to use ramroot. Željko did a nice writeup here: https://euphony-audio.com/hesk/knowledgebase.php?article=14

 

Second question: how big (total disk footprint in GB) is your library?

HI Rajiv.

 

I have read that article. I have only initiated the "default" Ramroot option as I still need functionality and access to my library.

If I make any changes eg. cover art, I go back to manually save "root fs to disk". At least that's my understanding. A bit like AL; needing to remember to save changes if using RAM mode.

 

My library is about 1TB.

 

I have a 90GB SSD that I bough for my NUC but never ended up installing it however I don't believe I can use the "cache" function booting from USB.

I understand the sound might improve further if I used a separately powered USB drive but with the option of "cache" and "buffer before play" I wanted to avoid complicating things.

 

I was using a Mac mini server/NUC endpoint configuration with AL but Euphony/Stylus is better in my system.

 

It also frees up a 12V PS that I could use for my SOtM tX-USBultra.

 

Thanks for you thoughts.

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

@HeeBroG

 

One other thought. You can still attach your USB HDD to the NUC, even when running in ramroot, with "Copy App Config to RAM". This flag just allows you to eject your USB flash drive, but your USB HDD should stay mounted.

 

So if you want to try the network share route, you can very easily compare the current USB HDD direct attach to the network drive configuration. Regardless of what anyone says, you can decide for yourself which you prefer.

Thanks Rajiv.

 

This actually worked well; so far.

Ejecting the USB boot drive has improved things further in my particular configuration.

The USB HDD is still mounted with full library access and Stylus functionality.

I suppose I have to reinsert the USB boot drive if I make any changes to the library and click "Save app config to disk" to keep any changes including library edits.

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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  • 4 weeks later...

Where is the option for this?
All I have is number of results/page.

I get 2 rows in portrait mode but 3 in landscape though.

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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It also doesn't seem to save my preferred option of "artist" view and seems to default to "album" view when restarting the app.

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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When Euphony OS is loaded in "Ramroot", it's called zram0.

 

I boot from USB but have 8GB of RAM in my NUC.

 

I notice that zram0 is in usb disk.

 

Is this correct?

 

Geoff

Screen Shot 2020-01-18 at 5.22.30 pm.png

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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Same here.

 

Euphony sign at top left spins and program hangs.

 

I have to change "My Music" to "YouTube" (I don't use Quboz/Tidal) to get things back on track.🤔

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am on 20200114.

Nothing seems to happen when I click "check for software updates" in the drop down menu.

Is there another way to update?

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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Ah...That's why. Many Thanks.

 

But does your release say 20200124?

 

The 20200131 doesn't seem to want to "stick" even though update gets completed.

 

G🙏

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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14 hours ago, austinpop said:

What I do use, are the more detailed network and disk activity monitors that are activated by clicking the words "Registered" and the build number on either side of that indicator. I find these incredibly useful to observe network and disk activity. I'll admit, it's a bit technical.

 Hi Rajiv,

 

Can you please explain to a nube like me what;

 

1. TX/RX and Pkts/Data rate mean?

 

2. tps means

 

3. the 2 columns of kb read/wrtn of 

 

Cheers,

 

Geoff

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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16 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Screen Shot 2020-02-11 at 11.20.33 AM.png

 

 

In this particular case, I was watching the Rx_Data column for two things:

  1. did the data rate match my network infrastructure, and was data flowing at the expected rate?
    • Yes, data was flowing at Gigabit speed as expected.
  2. When buffering of the queue to RAM was complete, did this rate fall to negligible (not zero)?
    • Yes, once buffering is complete, the Rx (and Tx) rates hover around 1-10KB/sec, which is a negligible amount of traffic.

I hope this little tutorial helps. Please forgive me if this was TMI. I figured it might also be of general interest.

 

Thanks Rajiv,

 

In my case, I only have a single row; eth0.

 

For some reason my "hover" rates are in the mid 2000's when seemingly doing nothing. 

I have noticed that every time I switch "desktops' on my laptop to the Safari window running Euphony web browser, Rx_date jumps to 30000's and Tx_data jumps to the 300000's before returning to baseline as above after 1-2 secs.

Is this normal behaviour or something peculiar to my setup. 

I simply have a USB HDD attached to my NUC booting off a USB with no internal SSD.

 

G

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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I don't have Tidal/Quboz.

Euphony allows me to sample some music on Youtube.

Playing via Stylus indicates PCM 16/48 quality playback.

Checking Google however states Youtube videos have AAC 126kbps quality.

Is this correct?

Screen Shot 2020-02-15 at 7.08.39 pm.png

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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