Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[bobfa]

In my never ending quest for things to tinker with I have started playing with Euphony OS and Sylus music player.   This thread is a quick setup process to help others try this OS and player.  I have my DIY  NUC endpoint that normally runs Roon Output (bridge, D-to-D, whatever you want to call it).  

 

In order to test Euphony Stylus I had to set up my system.  What follows is an outline of that setup.  I have created another thread that is a Shootout where I am talking about comparisons.  

 

The https://euphony-audio.com website is a little sparse and navigation is sort of hidden in the hamburger menu.  Just go to the download page and follow their instructions.

https://euphony-audio.com/installation/

 

You should have an 8GB USB stick and if it is faster that is a good idea for testing.  If you are running AL like I have been the computer needs to be changed to run Legacy Boot or the Euphony OS will not boot.  I would suggest that you have a keyboard, mouse and display hooked up to whatever you are running on.  You will see the normal Linux boot stuff go by and after a short bit you should see this on the display of the computer.

 

After that it is time to head over to a control device of your choice. Just a web browser is all you need to run with.  Go to euphony.local and the server should show up!

 

 

I hooked up my external USB drive to the endpoint and also linked in my NAS.  I am not pulling from the NAS only the local drive for now. 

 

 

It will take a bit for the Stylus software to index and load your music.  Here are some screen shots.

 

 

IF you are hooked up to your DAC via USB you should be ready to play with the Stylus Player software.  OH and setup 100% buffer

 

 

I am sure that there will be Q&A.  The Eupony folks have a trouble ticketing system, but this is not bad to stop at all.

 

 

 

Bob

 

 

I have just put my "endpoint" back into the system and left Stylus running.  I connected the software to my NAS and then added it to the library.  I made a small mistake so it is getting 200K + tracks that have MP3s and a back of the main library before we worked on metadata.

 

 

 

NOTES ON FURTHER SETUP 3/13/19

• This is a commercial software release do you NOT have Root access
• By default, the internal audio devices are turned off in the OS.  There is a flag to turn them on.
• If you are setting up a Roon system with two Euphony 3 systems, you will have the Roon Uniuque_ID problem (put in a ticket to have them fix your system)
• I suggest that if you have multiple systems running Euphony that you change the hostname on them to eliminate duplicates.
• It is easy to switch endpoints between Roon and SQlite
• I have not setup bridging yet.  I am told it can be done.  
• My endpoint is running off of Optane and my server is running off of NVMe stick
• The support team is very responsive and the ticketing system really helps keep things in order
• They are fixing some UI issues on the IOS control software.

 

Here is the link to their KB : https://euphony-audio.com/hesk/knowledgebase.php

 

 

Notes as of 5/27/19

 

Frequency scaling does not work on the NUC 7i7

 

Bob Fairbairn and a few others are now using Euphony Stylus on a single box as our player.

 

*** i suggest that you read their manual ***

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bobfa]

9 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Meantime as well as the all important listening comparisons, given this is a Euphony dedicated thread it might be good to start with a quick primer on what Euphony and Stylus are and how they differ from say Audiolinux and say the WindowsServer OS.

Alan,

 

There is another thread about Euphony OS that accidently got me started on this path.  I created this one to separate from the what does it do thread.  Let me know what you think please.  Also, I was keeping the sound impressions over on the shootout thread I started.  

 

I really do not know the best way to manage all this content.  

 

 

[bobfa]

8 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Thanks Bob,

 

Read that entire thread and it's a good start.

 

Still think a quick primer here would be helpful. You're on a bit of a roll currently but you're also creating quite a few threads and cross pollinating which can make it tricky to follow.

 

Cheers,

Alan

I will work on a “Primer”. 

 

[bobfa]

Status report from the last few days of setting up Euphony OS.

 

Communictions 

 

I have used the tech support system they provide with great results.   I have placed 13 tickets in the system and actually closed one myself.  Several of the tickets have been properly brought to a close.  We have at least two issues that will be fixed in the next release.  Their KB has at least one new entry and there will be more.

 

There is one hard issue for me.  They had not tested with two Roon instances Core and Bridge and there is an issue with that kind of setup (my standard setup) that will require a system software update from them.  I do not know if this will be in the next release, but I am working around this by running Squeezelite on my endpoint for now.  This should be in the next update and I have asked to be placed on an early release.  

 

We have had one remote access session that due to my network design we had to use TeamViewer.  (I kept their tech support up way too late; SORRY!)

 

Setup Status

 

So right now I have Roon Core running on my Xeon box and Squeezelite running on my NUC.  I am not running bridged.  I have both devices setup over fiber links to a Ubiquity switch.  I am migrating my network to Ubiquity.  I intend to test using the smart switch for isolation in the future.

 

Next Steps

 

I will be doing some listening tests, I will test in single box mode running Roon. First with the  Xeon Server, then the NUC.

 

The final tests will be in Two Box mode.

[bobfa]

13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I've lost track of all the threads you've opened up, so apologies if this is the wrong place to ask some questions

 

I tried to do this in a way that makes sense.  I am sorry if I did not.    I have to do a quick Primer on Euphony.  They are selling this as a one box solution.  We have been playing with the AudioLinux Lego set and Euphony  is Barbie in a single outfit with no Ken!  Euphony sells this software stand-alone, on a setup SSD and in purpose built computers.  I may have pushed their envelope a bit.😉

 

** I would love for Euphony to get involved in the forum.  **

 

 

Here are the answers to your questions to the best of my knowledge.  

1. Does Euphony supply a ramroot equivalent? I.e. can you run the root partition on a RAMdisk?     (I do not know)
2. If you're only interested in the OS, is it possible to skip all the Stylus "stuff?"   (YES and I am doing that)
3. Is it possible to tweak files? For example, squeezelite.conf to change buffer settings?  (I do not see how and I am working up a feature request)
4. Can you play with processor frequency?  (not that I know of )
5. Can you isolate cores? (not that I know of)

 

My hardware is the two devices I built in my "From 0 to ????) Series with very minor modifications

 

Server:

 ASUS WS C246 Pro Motherboard
Intel Xeon E-2124G
 Two Kensington 8GB ECC RAM

 Internal HDPLEX DC to ATX converter

Euphony OS standard install (do not know about RAMroot) 

Roon Core 

Music on external USB 3 drive

 

HEPLEX 200 driving all devices. 

 

Endpoint:

NUC 7i7 Dawson Canyon

AKASA case

32GB RAM. (I have been told that single stick RAM can be a problem with NUC so use two sticks.  I have these and this is overkill)

32GB Optane

Standard Ehpuony OS installs

Running Squezlite. (split Roon systems are broken in Euphony right now)

Uptone Audio JS-2 Power supply

 

Networking:

I am in the process of changing the home(s)/office network to Ubquity.  Almost all of the gear is here, I just have to finish the RF design. (My in-laws are next door and I manage that also).  

 

I am using separate 1Gb fiber network runs to the Server and Endpoint.  The server has an FMC powered by the LPS.  The endpoint has an FMC to the TLS switch. (I intend to test with the EtherRegen when Uptone Audio ships that product).

 

 Note that I am not bridged.  I have to see how that works down the road. 

 

----------------

More on the current status.

 

This got started on a Lark and has turned into a Project.

 

Today my system is set up as described here.  This is complex and expensive.  In the little bit of time yesterday we had to listen this sounded really good. BUT split Roon systems are not working right due to a problem in the way Euphony implemented Roon, and I am going to listen today with squeezelite on the endpoint.  (While working, of course😎). 

 

I really want to test both the NUC and the Xeon as one box solution.   I have this feeling that the split setup is a lot better,...

 

---------

 

If I put my "Karnak" hat on I would predict that I will end up with split core and output on Roon server and just maybe squeezlite as my output. 

 

Bob

 

 

[bobfa]

I have a work around setup in my endpoint right now that lets it run Roonbridge.  Bleeding edge of testing I guess.  My understanding is that the fix for this problem will be in the next release.  I DO NOT have a date for that.  I hope what I am finding does not delay their release.

 

I can start my listening tests and the shootout with AL.

 

Bob

[bobfa]

6 minutes ago, sunny_time_99 said:

Hi,

the Qobuz implementation is not realy perfect. Are you planning an Update, that it has the same functions like Volumio, Daphile and Roon are offering? Will there also be a future access to Music on a USB-Stick or external HDD/SSD?

 

Thx, and regards

 

Sunny

Sunny,

You can use an external drive right now.  Just add it in the library control system.  

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, sunny_time_99 said:

Thx @bobfa

while comparing so much during the last weeks... I did not see that point. But the qobuz thing is still open. I don't use tidal. Wow is the tidal implementation, tidal-user?

 

Regards

 

Sunny

I was only using the Stylus player for a few days.  I went right to a quick A/B with Roon and stayed there.  

[bobfa]

28 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Why would one use Euphony to run Roon?

Because it sounds better!  On my system, to my ear a lot better.  Also to three others who know my system and have listened to both. 

 

I really want others to try!  

[bobfa]

53 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

You mean u use Roon via Euphony OS vs Stylus player and you prefer Roon ? How do you send the music files via Roon to Euphony OS.

Did you usee 100% buffer on Euphony ? 
Where are the music files stored ? 

Yes I had 100% buffer and I tested with both of my machines With Stylus directly hooked to the DAC (I expected the Xeon to not do as well with USB out and from basic testing I did my NUC was better)

 

I use a split system, server and endpoint.  Currently the OS on both is Euphony.  Euphony OS has the setup to run Roon Server instead of Stylus.  (NOTE you still have to pay for Roon Server).  My music is on a USB 3.0 drive attached to the server.  Look at my "From 0 to " threads to see the server and endpoint builds I did. 

 

My endpoint is also running Euphony OS and Roon Bridge.  (NOTE!!! There is a bug in the current release of Euphony that makes this system not work right.  The OS does not start Roon Bridge properly. I have a preliminary fix on my endpoint)

 

I have been writing about the listening tests on the Linux Shootout thread I created.  As of now Roon sounds better than Stylus to me.

[bobfa]

1 minute ago, Chopin75 said:

What PC do you use for Roon vs the one with Euphony OS? If you are using trial version with USB boot it won't be a fair comparision.

See the threads I just mentioned.  I paid for two licenses.

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

So you are comparing the Audiolinux out of the box experience with the Euphony out of the box experience?

That is part of it.  Right now I have the Roon Server fixed (Euphony) and on the NUC endpoint I am testing between AL RAM and Euphony.  (This test is a problem right now due to a Euphony bug).  I have played with Euphony Sytlus on the Endpoint vs Roon OneBox on the NUC.  I am not ready to fully comment on that.  Lots of permutations.

[bobfa]

39 minutes ago, lmitche said:

That's my point. Audiolinux is highly tunabable with dozens of knobs and switches yielding many combinations and permutations with awful to gorgeous SQ.

 

As the code base is the same, Euphony is tuned to one instance of those combinations and permutations. This out of the box configuration is one that you and your friends enjoy. That's cool.

 

Nevertheless, I would argue that there exists a configuration of Audiolinux that is equal to or exceeds the SQ of Euphony. It is just that you haven't found that configuration yet.

 

 

Larry,

I am not sure anyone has found the “end game” in this software process.  I do not know what @hifi25nl has done on the inside or what the Euphony team has done.  Both of these developers have helped us get better sound by changing the software on the same computer. I enjoy the interplay.  I will not presume assume that because they are built on the same original Linux distro that there is not some of their own magic in there.  

 

I do know that some folks are intimidated by some of the things we do; flashing USB sticks, RAMROOT, etc.  and when you buy something that out of the box does “the same thing” then I want to share that experience to help others get better sound from their systems.  Many more will buy totally commercial offerings for the support and simplicity.

 

It is fun to look back a year or two years or five years and to take that “best of the time” setup and see where we are today.  I cannot imagine where we will be a year from now.

 

Sorry I am a little OT for my own thread.

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, Dutch said:

 

At least I will, once they’ve squashed the Roon bug and I’m used more to my system than I am today (have been making changes lateley).

I agree to hold on testing split run normal systems until they fix that.  I am heads down on some work before some travel and I cannot get the testing I want to do into my workflow.  I am also waiting for the update so I can A/B test single box NUC better.  As @lmitche says AL is a tweak away????  

 

I did not give the single box solution enough of a test.  It can be done with a USB boot of the trial, i think.  I have to move power supply and external drive to the main system.  MAN this is FUN!  REALLY!  I should get another NUC!

 

The questions I am asking myself is a single box NUC Euphony system as good or better than a dual box Euphony Roon system?  How does single box Roon sound?  I also really need to give the Stylus software a better chance.

 

Now back to editing spreadsheets...

[bobfa]

You can see what I used in my Server build thread:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55681-from-0-to-xeonalroon-server-in-2-days/?tab=comments#comment-928961

 

I have still want to test with using my NAS.  

 

[bobfa]

4 minutes ago, Chopin75 said:

It won’t be fair comparison by using USB boot instead of internal SSD drive as it is designed for.  I can’t answer your question of dual box vs 1 box, as i only have single box setup and i don’t do roon/nas etc.. 

from your blog of the servers spec, it is hard to get fair testing as you have HDPlex running roon vs NUC with the stylus/euphony. I cannot find your LPS for the NUC. Assuming the HDPlex is superior (less noise, better PS), then roon has that advantage. Also did u run Ecache? That works best with an external drive where the music is. 

I think I am not explaining myself well.  I take the HDPLEX and the drive up to the NUC hook it all up.  I do not see Ecache in the menus 100% buffer I see.  There is an internal SSD in the NUC it is running Euphony and Roon endpoint.  I can switch.

 

I have to spend some time on this test.

 

I have bounced back and forth a couple of times and The Dual box Roon won by quite a bit.

 

NOTE that the NUC endpoint is normally run with a Uptone JS-2

[bobfa]

6 hours ago, johnli said:

Bob,

 

May I know your preliminary method to fix that Roon bridge bug?

Thanks

 

Arthor: when will the update to squash this bug be available? I'm keen to have euphony to act as a Roon bridge!

THanks

I did not fix it, the support folks did.  Basically modified some things in the OS to make my endpoint RoonBridge only.  

[bobfa]

6 minutes ago, kravi4ka said:

Sometimes we do not need much, just a word to give us powers, much appreciated guys!

 I am really happy to help others experiment.  

 

It is really fun to see this stuff grow.  Sometimes it is hard to find all the salient points in the research here on the forum.  I hope that we can find better ways to summarize findings and keep them up to date.  

[bobfa]

2 minutes ago, kravi4ka said:

 

Well, I am almost computer illiterate... I checked Intel site and they had a list of NUCs and the DNBE was not there and I decided I am out of chance. Could you please, please give me a link for something that might work, I am that desperate... Thanks in advance!

https://simplynuc.com/itp/

 

https://www.simplynuc.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/SimplyNUCProductBrief-NUC7i7DNFE.pdf

 

scroll down to fanless and they have the i7DNxx  boards on their fanless case.  The key s i7DN. For Dawson Canyon.  The FE on the end is fanless.

 

You can then pick the options you want, RAM, Optane, etc..

 

If this is still a problem let us know and we can try to help more.

 

 

[bobfa]

On 3/30/2019 at 3:15 PM, mikicasellas said:

In either case if future findings show that two machines are better, i will still have the AL/NUC7PJYH to use as an endpoint.

 

Any suggestions to which path would be the smartest to choose ?

 

I would start out as simple as possible.  I think it really looks like the power supply is of greater import than ever!  Do not let this crazy experiment lead you down a path that is not comfortable.  

22 minutes ago, HeeBroG said:

If one already has a Roon licence and enjoys the user interface then I understand.

However if Stylus is not terrible and sounds as good, those without a Roon licence could potentially put resources elsewhere to improve their setup further.

 

Can someone with the resources please test these 2 issues and advise.

 

Cheers,

 

Geoff

This is actually some of the testing I want to do when the Roon related software issues I have found are fixed.  (Any Day now).  Both AudioLinux and Euphony make it pretty simple to swap things around.    I am a Roon user so i am sure I have some bias there!  I do not have the power supplies I need to do all the testing.  My 7i7 NUC endpoint is running at 12V on a JS-2 rail.  It will run Roon server and Stylus just fine.  Running with a single device i can bring my HDPLEX 200 in at 19v on the NUC if needed. I have to get the time to do all this work.  I may also bring my Xeon server in to test on the main system.  I did some quick tests and it did not seem to do as well as split boxes.    

 

 

[bobfa]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

I am running Euphony/Roon on NUC i7 and Roonbridge running on the Celeron CJY NUC and noticing Roon performance issue when playing 96k/192k files only. It plays for couple of seconds and then skips and pops up an error message "An audio file is loading slowly. This may indicate a performance or hardware problem". I have been running this setup for months with AL and never had an issue.

 

Anybody know what the issue it ?

 

I am also noticing that with Euphony, I can't upsample to DSD256 in Roon when it wasn't an issue with AL on the same NUC. Strange!

 

 

I think the problem is the way that they were starting Roon.  There is a new release on the way.

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, bobfa said:

I think the problem is the way that they were starting Roon.  There is a new release on the way.

That new release is out.  I will start testing it later today.

[bobfa]

5 hours ago, Poldi said:

@mikicasellas@Holzohr@mozes

Željko just wrote me that he found the mistake and he will release a new Euphony version tomorrow that should work for us.

 

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I am just now getting around to trying to update and the update system is giving me an error.  I bet that they shut it off to fix whatever was/is broken.  SAD FACE😕

[bobfa]

11 minutes ago, Dev said:

I tried updating but it stops at a popup message with error -302

 

 

Ditto.  I think they may have shut it off due to a problem that folks have found booting the new release.  

[bobfa]

21 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Yeah, that thingy 🙂

 

I think you upgraded to the newer version. Do you remember if it worked with the older version of Euphony ? I am running release version 20190214.

That older version did not run the right processes for roon bridge.  I would update when available.